Narcissistic Behavior: The Roadshow for Therapists
Christine Louis de Canonville
B.A. Hons; MIACP; MLBCAI; MUKGHE; MEAS, MATH, CMH; CHyp; MPNLP, MTCI.
Welcome to The Roadshow for Therapists. This site is concerned with the effects of Narcissistic Behavior, and the effects of that behavior on victims. The information is intended for Therapists, but victims of narcissistic abuse may also find the information helpful for understanding what happened to them while in a relationship with a narcissist. Reading the articles will guarantee that you will “Learn Powerful Secrets” about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and put you on the fast track to understanding Narcissistic Victim Syndrome. Be ready to be amazed at what you will discover for yourself.
Attention all Readers!
When I first started this site, I did so specifically with the intention of educating Therapists about traits of narcissistic behavior, and how that behavior can traumatize victims in a way that may lead to a condition that I refer to as Narcissistic Victim Syndrome . However, amazingly I have been inundated with posts from victims of narcissistic abuse from all around the world (over 100 countries in fact). So from now on I would like to welcome everyone who drops in. Please browse at your leisure.
Attention all therapists!
It is official, to-day there is a rise of unhealthy narcissism prevalent in our culture. These narcissistic behavior traits are said to be reaching epidemic proportions, and as a result therapists can expect to see that reflected in the therapy room. What does Narcissistic Victim Syndrome mean to you? If your answer is “Nothing”, then please stay with me. Because, if you want to be at the cutting edge of this new syndrome, then you will need to learn all about Narcissistic Behavior in order to update your knowledge and skills, and become an effective therapist working in this area.
Narcissistic Victim Syndrome is a new diagnosis that is presenting itself in most therapy room’s to-day. But who are these clients? How did they get this syndrome? What is causing it? How would I treat it? More importantly, how would I recognize Narcissistic Victim Syndrome if it were to sit in front of me in my therapy room? What is the link between this new syndrome and pathological narcissistic behavior. The Roadshow for Therapists will answer all these questions and give you the necessary training to be an effective therapist in this area.
Narcissistic Victim Abuse is a subject that many therapists are unaware of, as it is not included on most Psychotherapy Training Courses in any great depth (if at all). However, what has been overlooked in the field of therapy, is that it is the therapists that have to deal with the victims of narcissistic behavior daily in their therapy rooms. But, by and large, the therapist, through no fault of their own, is generally ill equipped to identify this new syndrome (because of inadequate training in this area).
In order to fully understand Narcissistic Victim Abuse, one must first understand the traits of narcissistic behavior. Every narcissist, by their very nature, needs their victims (this is referred to as Narcissistic Supply). Narcissistic Supply is vital to the Narcissist, because their weak ego depends on it in order to regulate their unstable self-worth and self-esteem. Victims can be male and female, young and old, from all walks of life. They are not only spouses; they can also be children, parents, siblings, friends, co-workers, and employees. So from the boardroom to the bedroom, narcissistic behavior is wrecking emotional havoc with people everywhere in the search for narcissistic supply, leading to physical as well as mental health care issues for all the victims.
For that reason it is vital that all therapists educate and familiarize themselves with the complexity of narcissistic behavior traits, gain a basic understanding of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and learn to recognize the signs of narcissistic victim abuse that could go on to develop into Narcissistic Victim Syndrome (NVS). Without this understanding it is almost impossible for any therapist to recognize this syndrome, and the destruction and long-term consequences that it inflicted on victims. Without the help and recovery from this form of abuse, the victim is very likely to experience re-victimization as they are unwittingly conditioned to be “the perfect partner” in the narcissist’s dance of destruction. So even when they do manage to escape from one abuser, they are likely to find themselves in the clutches of another narcissistic abuser, with no idea of how this has happened to them.
The benefit of visiting The Roadshow for Therapists is to:-
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Have instant access to information on narcissistic behavior and Narcissistic Victim Abuse.
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Learn about Narcissistic Victim Syndrome
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Understand the “Illusionary world of the Narcissist”, which inevitably leads to Narcissistic Victim Abuse.
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Gain insights into the multi-addictions of the narcissistic personality.
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Recognize “Narcissistic Victim Syndrome” (also sometimes called “Echo Personality Disorder”, or “Narcissistic Victim Abuse”.
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Learn the “convoluted dance” that every victim must learn in order to survive.
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Understand the phenomenon of “re-victimization”, in order to “red flag narcissistic behavior” in future relationships.
The intention of this site is to educate by “spreading the word” (at all levels of understanding) about narcissistic behavior and its part in NARCISSISTIC VICTIM SYNDROME, thus exposing the illusionary world of the Narcissistic Personality of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and to recognize the dance that takes place in the narcissist’s endless search for Narcissistic Supply (that leads to victims being abused).
Why do the narcissists get satisfaction from harming their victims?
OMG my brother has Narcissistic hehavior problems and for 40 years he has always been mean to me i never understood why and what had i done to make him feel this way about me now I UNDERSTAND we have a name to what i have endured. THANK YOU SO MUCH
we are at the end of the line after we close out our Mom’s house there will be no one to tell us we must be brother & sister IT TIME TO MOVE ON he will have to find another victim i can no longer be around to take it
please provide me information about symptoms of this narcisstic victim syndrome…..i have been confused for a long time….been at therapy and feeling like i am not believed and believe that this may be exactly what is happening in personal marital relationship and at work with a boss who is very controlling by passive aggressively…..it is amazing how everyone at work are submissive…and as strong as individuals they all are….feel there is nothing they can do with the ongoing control this person has….it is unbelievable…i am standing….yet….alone..unfortunately……thank you
Being a victim of Narcissistic abuse and having to do vast amounts of research in order to attempt healing the c-ptsd it has left in its wake, I find your casual reference to the “numbers of women presenting with narcisstic behaviors” appaling.
It appears your statement is only going to re-victimize the victims who are suffering irreparable harm, unethical, biased, and not based on any verifiable statistical data.
My research has indicated time and time again, that males are the predominant perpetrators when it comes to Narcisstic abuse.
While there are female offenders, they do not make up the majority, therefore I am traumatized by your statement, question your qualifications to even lead this workshop and would hope that you correct this immediately as it is a slap in the face to every female victim out there.
You may very well be aware that narcissists are very good at playing therapists which is why your industry is baffled; however, given the tone of your introduction, I am left to wonder will your industry now place blame on the victims? When the victim presents in your offices in tatters, will they be labeled histronic? hysterical, bi-polar (a favorite crazy making diagnosis of narcs – they love projecting this onto thier victims)…will victims now have to defend themselves against ill informed therapists?
Please review the information and if you are not clear, I have hundreds of women in my network who have done loads and loads of research and would be willing to clarify any questions you have, better than any textbook you may have gotten your hands on when it comes to this topic.
The author of this commentary wishes you no harm, but is a victim of a narcissist and felt like the wind was knocked out of her once again when she read your casual comment.
Thank you.
Christine,
I just read one of your responses to an article on how to recognize a narcissist. I have been researching this disorder. I recently got divorced from my husband who I now believe is a bona fide narcissist – I didn’t see the lying, cheating, multiple addictions, verbal abuse, manipulation coming. In fact, when I met him, he seemed perfect and said ALL the right things. It has taken me several months to figure out what the hell was happening, since it is so confusing when you are in the middle of it. You said so many spot-on things: I’m not trying to toot my own horn here, but on top of the fact that I am a beautiful woman, I am kind, values-based, and down-to-earth. I chose to be the person I am today through introspection and for the want of a life with meaning.
I now believe that my husband was empty at the time I met him and he believed that by “catching” me, he could fill himself up with the goodness that he did not possess. In the last year of our marriage, the more I caught on to things (the cocaine, pills, other women), the more he became verbally and emotionally abusive. It was as if he could see that the whole act was coming to an end, and he made sure to cruelly punish me for being smart enough and direct enough to not just go along with it all. As in, how dare you be honest with me now that you know the truth? It seems totally insane. Before we married, he either swore he didn’t do certain things, that he held certain values, and that he would treat me a certain (good) way. Literally none of it was true. He also began to exclude/isolate me from his activities and one of his friends told me that he said I was “too isolated”. Um dah! He made sure that he had a whole new relationship before ours ended. When I caught him cheating on me with his new employee, his exact words were: “I can’t be with someone who checks my phone. I want a divorce.” Done and done.
Please keep spreading the word on these personalities. The thing they hate most is to be exposed for who they are and have their cover blown. It’s is so satisfying though.
Have several clients that may benefit from this info – thanks
My marriage after 28 years broke up over this behaviour, think he abused early in life, would this b a right
Wanting to learn more about this syndrome as I personally believe a younger sibling is suffering from this and feel this could be the start of new studies for me personally
Many thanks. Look forward to hearing from you
Kind Regards
Valerie
Will you or have you done any research on working relationship that have a built in power differential; employer/employee and the effect this has on a person? Is this identified in Human Resource Management Journals ? Thank you for your time.
Sorry Paulette, I have not written anything about the workplace “YET”. However, the presence of narcissism in the workplace is well established, I know because I have also been working in the corporate world for more than 10 years (as External Supervisor). A huge part of my work involves dealing with the constant barrage of problems that result from this type of personality. Most of the problems I have personally had to deal with did not come from those at the top of the ladder (those in leadership roles), the worst problems were coming from people at the lower levels of the organizations (who are ambitions to get to the top). These narcissistic personalities are like a “virus” in the company, they are disruptive to the productivity and the morale of the organization. They are the cause of a great amount of stress to others they share the space with (both employer and employees). Most of the time victims are reluctant to come forward and report their colleague for fear of further reprisals, so it tends to remain underground rotting away at working relationships. Because the narcissistic behaviour is so insidious, often the victim cannot work out what is happening, so they find it hard to make a complaint without the fear of looking silly.
According to research carried out by Bradley S. Wesner, victims use 5 strategies in response to the workplace narcissist: These are:-
1. non-responding,
2. quitting one’s job,
3. befriending the narcissist,
4. confronting the narcissist,
5. going to management.
Contrary to existing literature, only quitting one’s job or going to management were perceived by respondents as effective methods. Unfortunately, my findings are, even when management (or Boards of Management) are aware of the situation, they are so afraid of doing anything will result in the narcissist taking them to the Labour Courts, (which they are likely to do). So like the ostridge, the management resort to buring their heads in the proverbial sand. More often than not, the victim becomes so ill and stressed out that they feel their only course of action is to leave the job (for their sanity).
Sorry I can’t be of more help to you are present.
Warmest regards.
Christine
I cannot say for definate that Human Resource Management Journals don’t identify narcissism in the workplace. But so far, none of the companies that I have worked in have a bulls notion of what they are dealing with. I have occassion to inform the management of certain employees displaying narcissistic traits, but to be honest, if the company is not willing to familiar themselves with what this really means, then it is like swimming against the tide. Right now I am so busy working with victims in my private practice, that it leaves me little time to write. But I do intend to publish articles on “Narcissism in the Workplace” …… so watch this space.
I had a narcissistic mother and do not feel that I bonded in any sort of a “normal” or “healthy” way with her. Then I had a subsequent marriage to a narcissist/psychopath who I clearly trauma bonded with. I am left reeling from the Stockholm Syndrome and PTSD. After reading your articles on NVS and Stockholm Syndrome I am left wondering…how do I heal from this?
Hi Kelly, You have clearly been through a hard time, with your multiple narcissists. This re-victimization is very common, because once you have been conditioned to the narcissistic convoluted dance, you become very attractive to other narcissists. This is why it is now important to deal with the pain of all of this past. You need to understand the nature of your conditioning so that you don’t unconsciously create the same situation for yourself again in ignorance.
None of this is your fault, but I believe strongly that part of healing the trauma is to become informed about your own unconscious behaviour, because this is your own particular signature “dance” in responses to narcissistic behaviour. Without doing this work, your blind spot will remain hidden from you. Remember, this was a child living in a war zone with a narcissistic mother, you unconsciously went into survival mode…. this was really brilliant, because it kept you safe at some lever of yourself. But now as an adult, you need to understand your own behaviour, because what you understand you can change. Once you know this, are unlikely to become a victim again. You cannot change any narcissist, so don’t even try, BUT you can change how you behave around them. Once you have this information (know the narcissistic traits, and know your responses to those traits), you can then put new boundaries in place You are also in the position where you can begin to take the locus of control from inside yourself (and not be controlled from outside yourself). I consider this part of the work to be as important as the grieving process every victim needs to work through with a therapist. Although it is a difficult journey part of the way, it can also be the pilgrim’s journey, a fascinating one to discover who you are, your true self. You are amazing, how do I know, because you are a survivor, and you have come out of unconscious slumber, woken up and asking good questions. Once our eyes are wide open, we can see narcissistic behaviour from a mile away, and the Gaslighting Effect can no longer work against us. Take care.
I’ve just came across your site researching about narcissistic personalities as I believe i’ve been in a relationship with a narcissistic man for the past 6 years. Thank you so much for all this useful information, it gives some kind of explanation to what i just lived as I’m trying to make sense myself to his behaviour and start to realize it is not “my fault” like I’ve often heard from him.
However i just had a baby girl with this man and wonder what kind of parenting can I except from him or if he will ever be interested in her or if I should just keep my little girl away from her father?
Thank you for your response! You touched on something that I am looking at now – how do I discover my true self? I was never “allowed” to be anything but a puppet at the end of a narcissist’s string for my entire life (went straight from my parent’s home to my husband’s home). Now I’m left sitting at a crossroads with no idea how to proceed. I don’t know who I am. I don’t know who I want to be. I can’t picture the future as anything more than raising my children to adulthood. I feel incredibly frustrated to not know where I’m going – I don’t see it as anything other than a scary blur floating in front of me.
When you’ve been piloted by someone else your entire life, what do you do when you’ve finally taken back the controls?
WOW….. to discover ones “True Self”, what an wondrous adventure to be on. The main thing is that now you are ready for self discovery, that is the best time to start such a journey. It requires self introspection, which is a conscious and purposive process relying on thinking, reasoning, and examining one’s own thoughts, feelings, and, in more spiritual cases, one’s soul. You can do this in a number of ways. Reading and informing yourself as you are already doing by reading up on narcissism. Doing some self-development workshops in order to become more self aware, your likes, dislikes, your dreams and aspirations etc. Probably the easiest and most direct way is by going into therapy. There you will have someone to help you explore, to deal with emotions (especially around the losses you have experienced), and to be your witness with you on the journey. I see every client as such an honour, afterall, they have chosen to take me on that journey with them. That way you will become your own navigator in life, and better still you will teach your children how to do the same, and not allow themselves to be controlled by anyone else.
Your reaction is one I get a lot…”what a blessing to get a second chance and the opportunity to discover your true self”. Its scary as hell!
I’ve been in therapy for the past 11 months. Dealing with the fallout of leaving him, custody/divorce, grieving the dream, trying to stay afloat…basically survival mode this past year. She has been invaluable to me and kept me reality-based throughout this process.
Now I’m ready to really start working on me. I’ve done thousands of hours of research on NPD, psychopathy, etc. I know what I am dealing with from him. But I don’t know how to begin to learn about a “self” that was never allowed to develop. My therapist gets frustrated when I say this because she feels I’m being stubborn and refusing to see the forest for the trees. She also says I’m angry at God and she may have a point there.
I’ve been living a day at a time for almost 1 year on my own…and day to day for the 3 years prior to that with xN/P…just getting thru each day sometimes minute by minute. This new stage just feels like more of the same and I’m tired of it. It’s wearing very thin.
Hello Kelly,
Yes, my response sounds a bit trite, but I don’t mean it to be. Getting through what you have been through is like climbing Mount Everest, with your hands tied behind your back. I know, I made that journey, but I promise you, that when you reach the summit, the view is well worth all the effort. Who knows, you may find your God there waiting for you. Take heart.
I am glad that you find the info useful. Keep learning as much as you can about this condition, and what you can about yourself. If you can, get yourself into therapy so that you can get the support you need as you deal with your pain. When you get stronger you will know what direction you need to go then. Whether this man will make a good Daddy for your little girl remains to be seen, I cannot say, it depends on many variables. Time will tell, the more you learn about what really happened within the abusive relationship, and your observations of him as a Dad around your daughter, the easier it will be for you to make your decision about your daughters future. Wishing you the best of luck in your recovery. Keep up your courage.
I have endured a Narcissistic neighbor for several six years now. I had sought professional advice – to learn that I am dealing with a Narcissistic and possible bi polar person. When they moved in six years ago- I introduced my child to their two children. These two children are under the influence of both parents – the father is out of town a lot.
The mother either loves us and thinks we are wonderful or totally ignores us – so much so that if she sees us driving down the street= will turn her back and grab the women she is talking to turn with her.
Its a simple or unknown reason why she shuns us.. most recently it has been after we have introduced her to a friend or acquaintance and she and her children completely swarm all over the new child. They act guarded until they ask enough questions about this person – then they drop my child- exclude him and have all the children in the neighborhood over to their house and play- the moment my child walks out the door to play with them.. they go inside or hide or even taunt him and say there he is “hide” – unfortunately that came from the kid we had introduced them to at our house. Her turn of mood came after we had to leave her childs birthday party for an event that was planned months ago.
The next day- all of the further invitations were canceled and the shunning began.. She had recently renewed her friendship with my next door neighbor (as they also spent the most money on her childs birthday gift)- and soon. The neighbor was parking in front of our house, hitting balls into the yard.. tennis , golf and soccer. and they were getting together and dining out and visiting each others home till late hours. We also knew she was building a wedge between us with rumors.. We knew what she said about them- so we did avoid them and they also were strangely alienating us
– needless to say.. it is terribly confusing to be liked one day then alienated the next.. It is worse that – she-her husband-and her children – go out of their way to not only alienate my child.. they purposely exclude and start tormenting him – and use our friends and neighbors to do it with.
We look ridiculous trying to join the group – when they know she is mad at us (who know why) and everyone guards her feelings. We have often thought about playing the same game back… but it all too exhausting and just doesn’t seem right.
It is our neighborhood.. we welcomed them and they take and then ruin it for us.
We are low key people and try to just be nice- to everyone – I do not know what she is saying or doing.. but somehow she has changed the neighborhood – She is the only person we have ever had a run in with- she acts like we are crazy – and makes us look that way – when we try to stick up for ourselves.
But – if she didn’t turn so abruptly on us.. we wouldn’t be so confused. Like hanging on a rope that breaks.. you keep looking for that hand – and there she is holding that knife that cut the rope.- and smiling. We have talked to the school couselor about the situation.. how it affects my child – and it has.. The counselor has said many times it is not us.. and to explain that to my child.. we try.. but it not only my child that she has affected but the other children.. they have been able to find our buttons to push.. they know how to hurt us.. thanks to her.
My son is now 10 and is finally seeing this for what it is. With previous advice we have informed him that it is not him – but the parents influence, its her ability to totally be all about you one day and then move on to the next person.. unfortunately- while she is doing that she tears down my child.. and he is hurt angry and his reaction to the taunting is like pushing his buttons – and then the group continues to make him appear as if he is the difficult one.
I understand not everyone has a great child hood.. but this is extreme if it is the true cause of why a parent would behave this way. We should not have to live like this and be so guarded – I feel so protective now and have to watch our back.. We go through weeks of – “she likes us today” to “just wait – she will turn.
The unfortunate part for me and my child… is how we lose friendships because of her.. she of course always tries to look perfect before she leaves the house. She will have long conversations with the people we introduce her too, on the phone and at lunches. She always seems to make comments about other people and what they are like– when she is mad at them- and the things she says are so far fetched – They would be appalled is she knew what she was saying – but no one seems to know she is doing this to cause dislike ..
Non of these people will stick up for us- non will ever say – yes she does cause all of us problems, non will dare say what she says about us.. but the worst part is – she ruins what ever friendship we had and they become her friends and we are left alone -even when she hates them they still run back to her.
We don’t know what she is telling them and no matter what– it seems to be working – I do not want anything to do with them anymore because – I cant trust them- if they believe and support her- and never tell me they are sorry for what she does to us and to them from time to time.
Only once did I hear a comment- and that said she said, I was obsessed with her… not!!
I do not want her around us..I am not obsessed with her – I am not sure what to do about her- so she cannot affect us.
I am frustrated that she switches gears like she does, I am hurt that she would totally ridicule my child in front of his friends and alienated him.
So many of these children have had this happen and know what it feels like, yet they still follow the bully.
I tried to ask a friend that I thought was mine for the past few years- as I had introduced them- and of course my neighbor sneakily did the secret invites and such and had many great conversations with the mother.. I tried to ask her to remember that this is the same person that puts us through so much hell.- She choose not to recall – I let her know that this neighbor had been stirring up problems – by telling us that my friends child was being mean to mine and that they will not have anything to do with him.. then the next day.. total alienation..
I tried to explain to my friend that this mother has encouraged her own child to taunt mine child – and vise versa and I requested that it is not the taunting from him that was bothersome .. but the person who is influencing it.
unfortunately – she called her the narc -and of course was told that there was no problem – and also said her son denied the taunting.. and she believes her son..and that I was causing trouble.. unfortunately – I looked like the problem – by asking for help = I looked like the person talking bad about someone- so in essence – I couldn’t build a team or retain a friend- nor should I have to go through that.
again – feel like I and my child have been made a fool of – we again lost a friend to her – again she somehow influenced them away from us…
Her actions are classic to everything I have read.. It took me a while to see the pattern — but I see it. I don’t grovel anymore trying to find out what happened.. and try to fix it.. but SHE still wears me out.
WE had dealt with her so long.. we knew she would turn on us.. we knew she would influence these children to behave the way they are and that these children would follow her..
She and her children go out of their way to see who is at our home as we live directly across the street. They try and expect us to share our friends with them – yet they wait to get my child after their guest / our old friend has left and there is no one to play with.
I at times I am now second guessing my self- I feel that she has made such a fool of me to my friends- that I have lost.
I have reached out and failed, I have moped and have been so frustrated.. I do not want to be a part of this- but I can’t get her to stop. I never knew someone could be so mean, deliberate and punishing. I tried to say as little as possible and never get sucked back into a good friend relationship with her.
I have tried to be kind to the neighbors that she has kept me from. – I have been told they will eventually see through her.. but – what has she done that – they won’t see who I am and not who she has made me out to be.
Are we like the children afraid to stand up.. I am not – but it has not helped me. Will I ever get fair treatment from her or the friends and neighbors I have lost.
Standing up to your narcissistic friend………… No, no, no, no.
First, this person is not your friend. And second, no point standing up to her in the hope of clearing the air (or whatever), you won’t. Best thing to do is to just have nothing more to do with her, be polite, nod “hello” to her in passing, but keep right on walking.
It is good that you have a name for what is wrong with your neighbour, most people don’t have any idea of what they are dealing with, they just know something is not right. You need now to accept how & what this person is, because she is never going to be what you want her to be….not possible, and her bad behaviour is not going to go away. What you describe is classical behaviour, and you are caught in her Narcissistic Web. You are deluding yourself if you think that she is going to respond in a compassionate way to you or your child. Narcissists lack compassion because they lack empathy.
Leaving her party early………..”Oh my God, sin of sins”.
You choose someone or something over her wonderful party, you will definitely have to be punished for such an evil act of “rejection” of her. However, isn’t it interesting, she seems to be hitting your rejection button too.
Our reactions to Narcs are often complexed. You are setting yourself up as a target because she can get a reaction out of you….. she knows you want to be accepted by her. This feeds into her grandiosity and omnipotence, giving her power to treat you as she chooses, which in your case is humiliation.
The price is too high to be in her Club….. it leaves you open to exploitation, shame, manipulation, put-downs etc……in effect you are the sacramental LAMB to the slaughter, and your child along with you. If you are not careful you will end up taking on her aggressive feelings she is projecting on to you……. if you allow that to continue you will end up looking pathetic to others. This of course is what your narc’ wants.
The question you need to ask yourself is “Why would you want a relationship with someone who clearly wants to make you feel so bad?”. You know, what she is doing to you is not even personal, this is the way she treats anybody who she feels is inferior to her. The fact she can cause you so much confusion tell her that you are inferior, so therefore you deserve it (in her eyes).
Consider what you are teaching your child. He needs to learn that he has a right to be treated with respect, and to expect to also have a reciprocal relationship with friends. If he is left feeling bad after being with this family, then clearly something is wrong with that picture. Friendships are about giving and taking, sounds as if he is giving and giving without much in return, then going back to give even more. He should be valued, not devalued by the friendship with these children. Help him to break away from those children, and encourage him to make new, healthier friends. Let him know that there is nothing wrong with him, build up his self-esteem.
The greatest revenge that you can have on this woman is to ignore her, she will hate that, she craves attention, whether that attention is good or bad does not really matter. Don’t feed her need for your blood, otherwise she is going to bleed you dry. If you choose to stay in this abusive relationship, then you can expect more of the same ……. DUMP HER!!!
THANKS,your site is such a great help,the help we all need so much!!
I finally had the courage to leave my 28 year relationship(26,5 years of marriage)Last Oktober.Only found out about Narcissism last December,now that was the eye-opener I needed.But I ended up in shock,you can imagine.Have been reading ever since,that’s what helps me on my way to find myself again.Haven’t found her yet,maybe its too soon,but I am trying hard.The pain is unbelievable,it just hurts 24/7.But finally I am getting all the answers to all the questions I had for so many years…it’s sad,but I want to know what happened to me,and why I ignored all the red flags!They were there,you bet,but now it’s like the puzzle is complete.And with the help of sites like yours I am sure that one day I will be back,stronger then ever before.Never realised how N’s operate, now I know,it makes me sick!!!Everything he did and said,was a lie…unbelievable,have been fooled from the beginning.Thank God I’m officially divorced since last week,now I can make a new start,and get rid of the N in my life!!What a relief. ;o)
Dear administrator
A friend pointed me youre site and i am glad to write you about my story.
Grown up as a daughter with a father suffering from manic depression, i think a was an easy target for the narcist i married with ,at the age of 20.
We got 2 children ,but when i got 30 years i found out that my ex was cheating on me big time.
So i divorced hem ,28 years ago.
Now i tell people: When i divorced i didn,t end something bad, but the devil came in my live.
My ex played terrible games on me and the kids but in a way that he made the children very depending on him.
Spoiled them big time ,but wasn,t a parent at all.
I grew into the “witch” who made the inpopulair rules.
Tried to be consequent but it was a game i couldn.t win.
Results now : My Son is a insegure man of 38, togheter with a woman that i consider to be narcistic .
They have 2 children i deeply love.
My contact with him is very fragile.I am walking on eggs all the time.
My daughter doesn,t want contact with me, get always very angry at me and cannot explain why.She claims to have a very good contact with her father ,and looks unhealthy ,very skinny and tense.
My ex husband is a homeopathic therapeut ,and has a organisation :” The Path off Creation”
He is some kind off guru.
I feel as if my live is destroyed, i have trouble to find something i want to live for
Actualy my grandchildren are a motivation to keep on goiing.
What can you suggest to treat the my condition?
Two years ago i found out about the narcism and psychopathie and that was a relieve to find out what was goiing on and get some understanding.
But as i said i feel very hurt and sad and without energy.
Hope you can give me some advice.
Thank you
(Sorry for me incorrect englisch
Thank you so much for this website. My wife and I have been trying desperately to understand some painful aspects of her past. This site, in particular the aspects focused on the VICTIM (cognitive dissonance and infantile regression) were so helpful for me in understanding. I felt like I was reading her autobiography.
I’m sure there is much gratification, but also sorrow, in your work. I hope that this post helps you appreciate the positive impact your work here has on others.
I also divorced after 28 years of living with an abusive, lying, non-working husband. When I finally got him out of my house and life, my sister took him into her home (she said he “felt so terrible that she had to take care of him”). She is married, yet she nurtured my ex, and gave him confidential information about me and my finances that she gleaned through phone calls when she pretended to care about how I was doing! She even helped him sue me for more money (it cost me over $250,000 to get out of this abusive marriage … how is that for “justice?” She and my ex also pretended to my adult daughter that they were having an affair. So disgusting and sad.
Now this sister is the executrix of my father’s estate. She is the oldest. She LIES about EVERYTHING. She tells lie after lie after lie; when I confront her with these lies, at first she acts surprised that she said it. Then she denies that she said it. And if I press the issue, she claims I am crazy. She crosses her eyes, rolls them back in her head, and sticks her tongue out at me!! My sister had one job about 30 years ago; after she got fired she never worked again. I was a college professor, and am an artist. She seems to think it is important to her to destroy me?? She is downright evil. Regarding the estate settlement, I am wondering if (1) she has the ability to handle the job, (2) will the lies damage the outcome of the settlement, and (3) will the judicial system consider removing her due to her lying and sociopathic behavior? I found your web site after an incident with my sister today. She acts like the serious stuff is “no big deal” (to her). And her attitude is basically that it is none of my business. I started looking up information about lying, and I immediately started reading articles about sociopathic lying, narcissitic behavior, etc. But it sounds like something that is hard to verify. And I don’t know if the court would consider it as a problem. Right now, I am thinking about just giving up all right to my part of the estate so that I can avoid further contact with my sister.
Christine, you are doing excellent work in here. I am in awe! I’ve given you a link to something I’ve written, but that was only one episode not necessary related to narcissism. Not all narcissist are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol. In fact, most of them are too ‘perfect’ to become addicts of anything else but there own chemicals. May this blog of yours be a light in the dark lives of many victims of narcissists.
BTW, I tried to subscribe via email, but something is wrong with the button – it does not respond…. I would love to receive links to all articles you post in order to share it with my friends. Thank you
I was glad to finally see in writing what I’ve suspected, that I was trying for my entire childhood to keep my mother happy, swallowing any and all needs that I had. She was a loaded cannon just waiting to go off, every moment of every day. The NPD ex I just broke up with had a very flat affect, disturbingly flat. I often asked him why he did not smile or show expression, he seemed not to know and said he knows he makes people uncomfortable. When he did smile, it was almost painful to witness. He made up some excuse about being a doctor and not being able to show emotion to sick patients. I am very sensitive and always felt an undercurrent of rage in him, even though he was eerily expressionless. Is that possible, I mean I feel like I am deluding myself that I was sensing so much repressed rage.
He was awful to me in the typical fashion, lying, withholding, manipulating, etc, never ever acknowledging my feelings. I’d leave, broken hearted, and he’d woo me back until I was just recently discarded for a new source. I want to trust that instinct I had, that I ignored, that he was so very angry, but I just wonder if I am hypervigilant due to the way I was raised. I know it would be speculation for you since you dont know my ex, but any input you have would be appreciated.
I’m working on a paper in hopes to help identify narcissitic behaviors in the workplace and how to coach them in order to protect the team and reduce risks for the organization. I’m trying to use a temperment test (Briggs Myers) to determine if there is a coorelation between this team members temperment and which member could be more suceptible to narcissism.
Do you believe that members that have an ISFJ (protector) have a higher risk for being negatively affected by the narcissist?
It has been brought to my attention by 3 different people that I may be married to a man for the last 14 years who suffers from narcissism. We are currently separated due to his obsession over me, his up and down feelings and mixed emotions that resulted the last time in almost “physical” abuse towards me.
It has been 3 months of mental wear and tear on my body, mind and soul. At this point from reading as many articles as I possibly can on your site, I feel I am more confused.
Some of the things that define traits of a narcissist make me question if I am the narcissist.
Other parts I read make me break down and sob like I never have before. They seem like a slap in the face of reality. I feel quite ignorant if I am in fact the victim.
I have OCD and Generalized Anxiety Disorder which I have been able to keep completely under control since I was diagnosed 8 years ago. I always held a good job and was praised for my work. I was always told what a bright and personable person I was. I had never complained or had reason to in any of my relationships with men except the typical small stuff that normal healthy relationships have. I had many friends that were childhood friends I had kept for over 20 years.
In the last 2 years I feel like I am loosing my mind. I cant keep anything right. I cant get to work on time, get my kids to school on time, I have money in the bank but still get calls and notices for non payment, I have lost almost all of my childhood friends. Made new friends and lost them as well. I could go on but I wont. I just want a well educated, intelligent, thoughtful therapist who takes their job very serious to either see right through me or to help me understand what is going on with me.How do I do this????
Hello Christine,
First of all I would like to thank you very much for the amount and quality of the information you have displayed here, it is really useful for many people! I am a psychology student and I also have a sister whom I believe to have the NPD, but I find it hard to be really sure about it. I know the DSM criteria and have read all the information you have offered, but I still doubt if she has narcissistic traits or are we really talking about the Disorder. She is good at work, and “apparently” has a light drinking problem, and she is not physically violent, but I can see many narc behaviors in her. How could I be sure about this? Thanks again for you work!
This site is amazing, so much valuable information. I have a long history with narcissists. My mother, my ex husband of 26years and now my current husband who I have been with for 4 and a half years. I couldnt believe it had happened again. When I met him he seemed so perfect, spiritual etc. I see now how I have once again been used and abused, spiritually mentally emotionally and physically. I truly believed I was going insane and have lived in constant terror. Now I am convinced I have to leave but He controls all the money and I dont really know where to turn as I have become isolated and cut off from family and friends. Reading these articles and starting therapy again has really helped though. Thanks so much for your brilliant site
I was wondering if you can recommend any psychologists in San Francisco/Bay Area/East Bay who specialize in NPD. Thank you very much
Great blog, thank you for the info. We’ve been living next to a narcissistic neighbor for 7 years now, and I have just recently figured out what he actually IS. I did think he was just a sad, petty, mean, self-centered, controlling, ugly old man with no friends, but now I know the creature he is.
My question for you: is there a way to “win” with this type of creature? And I don’t mean win as in “let’s agree to be civil”, I mean win as in make him cower in fear at the retaliation coming toward him if he ever does anything to ever aggravate us again. We know his hot buttons, which we currently don’t push on purpose because I don’t know if it will do any good without engaging in a full on “battle plan” to bring him down and make him back off for good. He wants a reaction from us, this I know. I believe a short verbal rant or short lived attempt at aggravating him will just feed his fire and give him the attention/reaction he wants – however I have a feeling that a full-on extended retaliation of his own medicine multiplied by 10 may bring him down. I’m not talking anything illegal here obviously, just using every tactic we can on him to push every button we can – push it hard and push it often, over and over.
I believe he’s used all of his “ammo” on us already and we have not yet even started to play his game. We can play it, but we have a happy, wonderful and fulfilling life, so committing time and energy to do this is not what I WANT to do, but if a comparatively short amount of dedication to the unpleasant task will make a long term difference, than I may do so.
I welcome your input. Are these people entirely unrelenting, or are they capable of seeing when they are outmatched and backing down?
Hi, I’ve been involved with a man who I believe is narcissistic. It has been an on and off again relationship on his terms and I can’t shake him. He came on so strong full force full of gift giving promises wanted to take me on a vacation within first month of dating, I told him ask me in a year. He wanted me to come house hunting with him which I did and it felt awkward as he again stated I can see us together in this home you sipping your coffee in a white robe and your boys downstairs playing and having sleep overs with their friends and on and on. Well within a month all that changed and focus became on family in need of help and turned over the basement into a apartment which I clearly understand family in need. This was just another situation that he would build up then back out of. He convinced me that I was depressed it was so calculated that I believed him I felt like I was going crazy so he left me because I was depressed, as well said you are beautiful on the outside but on the inside that is not what it is. He always would put a therapist view on things. Fault finding became a common theme in this relationship. Basically when everything was going smooth smiles happy positive positive everything was swell. With turmoil in my life very devastating auto accident that my parent was in he contacted me via text after almost a year of no contact wanting to know how I was and from there we reconnected. So 2 months into what I thought was relationship he began fault finding again due to me putting boundaries in place in regards to a friendship he formed with my ex sister in law who is a tenant of his he states she is a beautiful person on and on helps her by watching her dog picking up her daughter at the hospital. She again is an ex in law and I find it difficult to warm up to this I asked him for patience in this as i became upset and well it snowballed from there. He now has informed me via text that he cannot accept my boundaries with his friend ****** that I am way to bitter and does not want bitterness in his life. I’m left shocked and disbelief that I allowed this back into my life. How much fault finding can this man find. He shares a special spiritual bond with her as he stated. I’m like are you for real I feel as if I’ve been traded in for this new friendship. As well he has nothing to do with my family as they are to negative again used all the things I told him in confidence about past and issues in my life and will not subject himself to my negative family. Now my family may not be perfect but by him stating that he is saying I don’t accept you. So here I am licking my wounds from another strike. I know in my heart that if an individual is into a relationship they try to see the other side and understand and be there for their partner but with a narcissistic man you will spend the rest of life in limbo awaiting for the next strike. I for one have my faults as we are not perfect but this man drove me to honestly believe that I am crazy and you know when I needed him the most he dropped of the planet and would not be supportive. I can now close the chapter on this insane story that I lived in for about 3 years on and off thinking that the next time it will be right but i know now that he will find every excuse in the book to pull away but I am not going to leered back into this twisted story again because i cannot subject myself to it anymore.
Christine, I’m still working on my research regarding “how destructive is narcissism to your team? How to coach the narcissist.” I’ve been asking members of my team to take temperament tests to see if I can determine which temperament traits are an indicator of higher levels of narcissism. What I found very interesting in the test group is that one of the participates took both tests DISC and Briggs Myer and the results are so obviously different than the observed behaviors and confirmed by other members of the team. In your expert opinion would this be an indicator of narcissism?
Best regards
Roberta (Berta)
Hi,
Its a process. I married my highschool sweetheart and had 3 beautiful kids. At age 16, I was smart enough to get and hold a job, energetic and hard working. My family was disfunctional and riddled with mental illness and health problems. In retrospect, I cannot imagine raising a child in that environment and I am not sure how I survived but I did. At that time, “sam” was handsome, intellegent, kind and loving… always willing to listen and hold me. He was “strong” and loving.
Our relationship somehow endured through college and after a 10 year relationship, he finally proposed to me. 8 months later, I was living out of state with no family or friends working full time while he attended medical school. we grew together, year after year, out goals became one- finish medical school, residency, practice, income…
three children… the whole thing is a blur.
The warning signs were always there, it was always all about him. He was unable to see my point of view or he would agree and then do exactly as he pleased. He was unable to speak his mind or discuss anything. Everything was black or white. Sam couldn’t stand up to his mother, couldn’t negotiate with his superiors, couldn’t follow rules, couldn’t work with others as a team. And always, he was “right” everybody was out to get him or jealous. He was superior and smarter than everybody else. My goals or dreams? They didn’t matter at all. I exsisted simply to serve his needs, care for the children, keep the house clean, cook etc.
When I found out he was a crack-head, I was pregnant with my third child and moving into a large expensive house. I was completely trapped. I had 2 babies, one on the way, no job, no “support system” and I was clueless.I was too exhausted to even know what was going on… he was on call 24/7 working constantly and we never had any money. ( no money for a house keeper, babysitter, lawn cutting service, painter, plumber… etc) I did it all. It was exhausting and all encompassing. I painted the house, tended the garden, grocery shopped and raised three kids all by myself.
I started to realize slowly that I was living a lie… he was not my partner, I was his servant. One day he left for work with out his beeper, I called the hospital looking for him and he wasn’t there. The feeling of dread… this happened over and over again and the web of lies became very complicated. Years passed and I endured, focused on raising my kids and taking care of the house, my aging parents, and sometimes myself. A survivor, I did what I had to do. After 25 years of marriage…. I woke up. His drug habbit and years of thearapy, rehab…. my life flying by and my kids now aware of the situation and angry hurt and incredibly damaged by living the lies..
By now, I was testing his urine, checking up on him and praying he didn’t get caught or get dead. His behavior escalating… smoking in the oncall room in the hospital, seeking prostitutes, liquidating college funds to fuel his habbit, cashing his paychecks and skimming money off the top. He managed somehow to keep his job and fool his children.Incredibly smart, incredibly manipulative, likable, attractive… amazing!
One day I snapped. Having been brainwashed to “keep his secret” or he wouldn’t be able to work and support us, I realized I could no longer live like this. His patients were in danger, his kids were in danger, and one day it would all land on me anyway. I caught him “high”,.. picking up his children at school. I kicked him out.
When he came back the locks were changed and I was on my way. Self discovery, why did I put up with this so long? why did I believe his lies? What was wrong with him and more importantly , what was wrong with me???
My research lead me here, Nearly 5 years alone and divorced for 3, he is still on a merry go round, using, getting caught. still managing somehow to work. He finally married the woman he was “cheating” with and his life is misery… He is always broke, one bad decision after another. NO money for college for the 3 girls, blah blah blah and guess what It is all My Fault! Yes, if he didn’t have to pay me spousal support he could pay for college. Back in court, yelling at the judge and claiming my lawyer is in cahoots with the judge… incredible. All my fault.
My life is full of possibilities but who am I? How do I break the cycle? Post traumatic stress syndrome… looking to avoid getting into another unhealthy relationship, finding a job in this awful economy… no self esteem. Breaking the cycle of “the Victim” My kids all blaming me, hurt and angry.
If my story helps anyone else, I am glad. Looking at this in print helps me to see it for what it is. A narissist? Yes he is… there is no doubt but Me? Thats important now. How do I grow and learn and repair MY damage and what is My role in this terrible story? Moving forward takes strength and courage but I know I will get there and one thing I do know is that time is a luxery, the longer I wait and talk about it the more time I waste.
thanks for listening…
Trying to find peace.
I’m at a loss for words.. wow! This explains my whole marriage. 17 years of living with fear, walking on egg shells, (don’t want to upset the hubby) isolated from friends (that I no longer have )
I was just goggling personality traits and came across this.. this all makes perfect sense to me and this is how my boys and I have been living.. wow.. we need help.
I’ve been looking to get out for sometime now and he always puts on the charm and I end up staying.. I have alot of work ahead of me. Thank you
Hello…there is a lot of talk about the damage caused by people with NPD and I believe it is on the rise thanks to the me generation of the past and what we see on the media now…but while people are quick to criticize the behavior, there seems to be little to help people who are working to overcome it. Many have to almost go it alone.
Thank you somuch for all that wpnderful information that has clarified so many things for me, i have thralled the web for six months to try to understand what i have lived through for the past fifteen years. I am very fortunate tohave found a therapist who recognised the signs and syptoms . I know he is correct but everything you have shown me further validates and clarifies for me what i could not understand. Thank you
Christine, Thank you so much for writing this content! It is encouraging just to see that someone grasps the extent of harm that can be done to someone who attempts a close relationship with a narcissist, which can be quite difficult to convey. I appreciate that your work includes a combination of spiritual, as well as traditional learning. I believe that I was romantically involved with a particularly intense narcissist. Even though the duration of the relationship was only 8 months, now, more than 2 yrs later, it takes my breath away to even begin to think about the events and emotions related to this. I have only recently began dating again, as I became very withdrawn for a long period of time. I am terrified that I will open myself to the same type of treatment again. And I still very obviously carry trauma from the previous relationship even though I “escaped.” Much of what you say here resonates with my experience. And I’d like to thank you for sharing it. But I would also like to ask you, how can I best identify a therapist that would be well equipped in understanding and helping me with this trauma? Should I seek out a therapist that specializes in NPD? Or trauma/PTSD? I have had short run ins with a few different therapists, but echo the thought that perhaps some of them may be ill equipped to deal with this particular circumstance. Also, any other books or references you could recommend to me would be very very greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Hi Christine
I’m quite surprised that the professional community have long recognised narcissism and it’s toxicity to society, but didn’t imagine there would be any victims or at least sufferers of this abuse. This is illogical, if you abuse children physically and mentally, do you really think that these children will just get over it somehow?
I can’t say that I had a completely ghastly childhood, she wanted me out of her hair, so I had freedom. However the usual nasty tricks , gaslighting, humiliation, ridicule and physical punishment for imagined slights were all there. It took me at least 3 or 4years to get over it , so I could at least function as a normal human being. I felt like a fraud masquerading as a normal person, scared to be exposed and ridiculed.
It’s quite nice that you’re actually thinking about victims of these evil people now, but I think that it should receive far higher recognition and Narcissism should be downgraded from a mental affliction to just what it actually is. Just pure selfishness and not caring about anybody else.
Robbing people on the street with a gun or knife is also being extremely selfish and scary to the victims They are also exploiting weaknesses in others and society and they are classed as criminals, pure and simple.
I’m not saying that all malignant narcissists are criminals, what I’m saying is that Narcissism should not warrant any sympathy or treatment. It’s very unusual for Narcissists I’ve heard, to seek, acknowledge, respond or improve from their so called mental illness. I challenge you to show me a fully recovered Narcissist.
In many ways Narcissists are worse than street robbers, these criminals reserve their bad treatment, uncaring and selfishness for strangers and may even have happy home lives.
Narcissist tend to reserve their worse cruelty and uncaring for their immediate families. In other words they just don’t care about anybody and use cruelty to anyone who stands in their way.
I really don’t care if they are supposedly suffering inwardly or whatever, their victims should be the primary concern and the problems of Narcissist should be quietly ignored. I heard they don’t like that.
I would identify myself as one who endured a marriage to a narcissist , until I threw him out and divorced him. I hate to play semantics, however, as I have learned more and more about this insidious behaviour, I consider that a narcissist targets people with the sinister intention to deceive and therefore the label victim becomes less empowering than the label target. That said, I am very grateful to you for opening up the subject. It has been my experience that a narcissist easily fools therapists and other professionals who seem more than willing to buy into the disorder. The narcissist enjoys a double whammy, they are pulling a fast one on a therapist, their target is identified as the problem, and they can continue business as usual. They are very aware of what they are doing, how else could they fine tune their words and actions to cause the most injury, and yet only the target is aware. For instance others would not question the motive behind the cup of coffee he brought to the counselling session for me that looks so thoughtful, who would know that I don’t drink coffee and then I am to refuse the thoughtful drink offering in front of the therapist? The elaborate deception that is their life takes mental olympics to maintain, unless some one takes a step back and questions what they are being told the narcissist will prevail. Fortunately for me I did not fall for the nonsense, when more than one therapist was fooled so easily I did the research and removed the narcissist from my life. Although the narcissist refused to let go I refused to be bound any longer. He attempted to deceive judges and our daughter’s court appointed advocate, some were naive enough to fall for trigger words, some did not. So maybe Narcissistic Target Syndrome is a better description than Narcissistic Victim Syndrome. After all once you have been targeted you will become a victim by default, as a narcissist refuses to believe that you don’t want any part of the distorted stupidity that is their life. Getting accurate information out about the existence/behaviour of narcissists before they attempt to entangle some one in their delusion would be very helpful. Also it seems to me there is not a logical road map to recovery out there once you become aware of this disorder. Various trustworthy websites and going no contact has worked for me.
Dear Ms. Canonville,
Lucky for so many others, and me I found your web page. I wish I would have found it sooner, or perhaps the timing was just right. You are amazing, an inspiration and indeed, a Warrior woman. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
You are so right, a therapist must truly understand narcissistic behavior and what it does to the person who loves/loved them.
I went to 2-3 different counselors in years past and I always left thinking everything was my fault. Well, why wouldn’t I? That’s what my partner said, oh Kathy you poor thing, you really need to work on your issues!!!!!
My relationship with a narcissist lasted almost 18 years. A funny thing, I was always trying to get away I just didn’t know why and I always came back. I grew up (I know now) with a narcissistic older sister. Maybe that’s where it all began.
I thought my sister was the smartest, funniest greatest sister on earth. Looking back, she never hugged me or said she loved me. But I did everything she wanted and I was a little afraid of her. Oh my. She extricated herself from the rest of the family about 15 years ago. I, of course, thought it was my fault or my young daughter’s fault (way back when) for my daughter not writing a thank you note for a gift from my sister. Wish I would have known then what I know now. I know she did us all a favor by cutting off communication.
Under the Gaslighting section, I was shocked to see myself there! And the first thing I did was to try and defend my ex-partner’s actions. Oh no, she was just trying to help me, she was good to me, she did nice things for me, always sent me flowers on special occasions. Remembering back, she always wanted to know what people at work said about the flowers. Whenever she bought something for me, she wanted that acknowledgement. Kathy, did you tell them I bought it? Towards the end of that relationship, I was lost, I didn’t know who I was, where I was going and I felt like I was standing on the sidelines feeling so distance from everyone and I didn’t for the life of me know what was wrong. Well, yes I did, I thought I had a severe character defect! I felt she was smarter, funnier and people were drawn to her because she oozed charm. Who was I, nothing. A shell, looked okay on the outside and kept up appearances, but feeling empty on the inside.
It’s been almost 5 years since I left that relationship. In those years, I unraveled all the pieces, went through every year of that relationship, trying to figure things out. For the first 3 years, I blamed myself; I hated whom I saw in the mirror. I wrote emails to her over and over telling her how sorry I was and how I had figured things out and what went wrong. How I knew it was my fault. She had done so much for me. I had done a less than noble thing and had an affair. In retrospect, it was my escape and it was the beginning of finding me. I sobbed for months and months after that. Starting over again. I felt so much pain it literally hurt to walk. May sound dramatic, but that’s what happened. Slowly but surely, I started seeing the truth. I started reading and dissecting her behavior and it led me to your wonderfully informative and empathetic supportive web page. It’s so easy to slip back into being that victim. To this day, she wants to be friends. I know the worst thing I can do is to say yes. And I never will say yes. The farther away the better. I’ve not been in another relationship, maybe it’s my age I’m now 58 or maybe I don’t trust myself to choose the right person. I am much happier now. I like myself, I love myself! And, I know it wasn’t my fault.
Thank you, thank you for who you are and what you do to help people who have lived with a narcissist.
Kathy
Christine:
Ireland what a beautiful place! That is on my bucket list for one day. I think I still have family there.
Thank you very much. Your words, clinical and personal touched my heart. Can’t wait till your books and papers get published and are out!Lady you are going to change the world and help millions. I have people here in the States that would honor your work just as I do. I did not want my day to end with out sending you a great bug hug of thanks and the support for your kind words have humbled me.
I have a little better grasp on how I can be of benefit to my own healing and later able to offer solutions and assistance resources, to mankind and it’s because of genuine quality people like yourself.
Honestly I got your return email this morning and the fact another human understands my story without judging me and knows I am telling the truth caught me off guard. I just cried and cried and when the baby got up i played and she went to sleep and I am crying again. I believe absolutely nothing happens in Gods world by mistake,there’s a reason of all of the sites I wrote to yours.
My body and soul are healing! You are so right I know my mother is a a psycho N and her father was as was my biological both sides aunts uncles and grandparents. all of my former spouses were as well. Some not as bad as others. I must take responsibility because I am the common denominator. I think I carried the traits but used the for survival. I choose to put that lion in the cage lock it up and throw away that key. It did save my life a few times. as years have gone by and education along with responsibility sets in I realize my life depends on a healthy lifestyle and I know what it feels like to hurt another. That is why I have always given personal best in everything. as well. Ive been through so many marriages I always knew it was me I just didn’t know what about me was manifesting the re-victimization. Now I get to learn some more and get to work so I can have my dream come true.
I just wanted a family to love and be loved by. I do know today my business ends right at the tip of my nose and I can offer to help but I don’t need be a door mat any longer.
Please accept my humble respect and gratitude for giving mr a few minutes of your precious time to help me our. I send light & love your way so you can continue your wonderful work. If you are ever in the coastal region of California you will always have a place to stay to visit. The Beaches here are not as cold as yours probably not as beautiful but it is still quite a beautiful place to do workshops and such. I Really want to get some of your materials so my current PHD and my regular therapist can use it to work with me.
I did a whole lot of community work and was also a publicist for dr. Helen Rectar Healthy Healing Publications. Also worked with Steven Pybrum Money& Mariage making it work together out of Santa Barbara.
Again thank you with warm regards,
Sammi G
It is amazing that the comparisons between the narcissistic charatistics are united in total with a person who is addicted to a substance or behaviour. The highlights of having no empathy, pathologial lying, viewing all others as inferior, a hatred of critism, and a general sense of always being in the right leads me to believe that addicted people are maintained in their hell by a very strong narcissistic drive. The promotion of chaos and a cocktail of lies/ half truths and truth creates a deceptive world which sustains the continuence of active addiction. However, in that it seems that the true narcissistic personaly is to a degree a “lost soul” the addicted people can if they have the information, the supports and the desire to stop, with help and love can leave their hell. With proper treatment, and an attendance at 12 step meetings they can live a productive life, regain the trust that they have abused in the active/ addicted lives and become valuable citizens once again.
Am in the process of getting out of a 6 month marriage and cant believe how strong the hook is. We dated for 3 years, called off 2 engagements and then foolishly thought he had changed. So mad at myself for being so weak. He is a piece of work and manipulated and controlled me in so many sickening ways. How could I be so studpid. Hes already latched on to another woman to feed his narcissistic supply. Glad I dont have to any more but I am still spiraling from all that he did to me. I feel like I have no soul
reviewing the above blog post plenty will agree with this because its accurate so it is great to see a man that’s telling this publically
Would it be helpful to ask my narcissist husband to watch a video describing narcissitic personal disorder.would he ever identify what is being described as himself or probably that will make him more defensive?
Christine wow this website is fantastic. I am a therapist just joining the ranks in the last two years (a newbie still in some ways) i am also an ACON who has been in therapy for three years with a counsellor who knew about narcissism. What i am wondering is do you get to find out which counsellors are good with NVS and what countries they work in? You are in Ireland i assume and i am in Australia. Are there others in Australia who specialise in this area NVS? i am looking at doing my PhD in this area.
Also i am curious have you done any research or have any theories on the roles assigned to siblings who are ACON’s? and can you point me in the direction of any specific resources for academic research on NVS and/or ACON’s/NPD Spouses etc
Thanks so much your website has helped me lots and i love your easy reading style of writing.
Tania
Thank you for this information I have found it all very helpful in trying to understand and come to terms with what I have been through, a five yr relationship with a man who clearly has many of the traits of a Narcissist.Idealization Devalue and Discard is definitely what happened to me.My life was taken over to a point that I no longer existed it was all about him.I now can understand the part I had to play in allowing that to happen.
He monopolized my time and used many of the brainwashing and mind tricks described eg gaslighting, confabulations,lies,false trust, etc.
His partner previous to me had experienced much of the same.He kept in contact with her throughout our relationship despite telling me she was the worst mistake of his life.He knew her infatuation with him and her belief that he is her “soul mate” would guarantee future Narc “supply” which indeed proved to be the case. Within weeks of our relationship ending, possibly because he knew I was on to his tricks, he was back in bed with her.Despite this and knowing I was aware of this he called to my house to ask if we could be friends! He showed no remorse for his actions 5yrs of lies and deception and even suggested that “it is what you wanted all along”
I am trying to make sense of the whole mess.Thank goodness I didn’t agree to marry him when he asked ,My gut was crying out to me to say NO.
I did make the mistake of contacting her to point her in the direction of Narcissistic awareness web sites,only via e-mail.However I feel it will fall on deaf ears. I need to concentrate on my own recovery now and have decided in order to do this I need to educate my self ,seek therapy and have absolutely NO CONTACT whatsoever with him or any of his associates including his new woman .
Dear Christine:
I deal with victims of this abuse 24/7 because I deal with a form of psychological abuse called Parental Alienation Syndrome or PAS. PAS is a form of bullying done by an adult or adults to the children. It is a from of psychological abuse and therefore a form of domestic violence. I prove all of this in the 3rd Chapter of my Book. But I am not the only one who has written extensively on abuse of the victims by the Narcissistic Alienators. But all of these victims have on thing in common, they have some form of PTSD at some level of it. From Legal Abuse Syndrome, to Verbal Abuse, to this new term Narcissistic Victim Syndrome, these victims all have PTSD. I actually have been trying to get a study/research project going about the Effects of Parental Alienation Syndrome on the Targeted Parent and their extended family. I am glad that this term is going to now be in the DSM.
I’m so excited to find your site! Just found it and looking forward to reading through it later. I am very very interested in the connection between spiritual healing of the narcissistic victim and finding freedom from the narcissist in their life. I found the power to leave a narcissistic relationship, and have turned my focus inward to understand how I attracted the relationship into my life and what I need to heal within. I believe strongly that when I have accomplished the healing that I need to do, it is likely that he will fade from my life. In the meantime, I am working on protecting my children and what I need to teach them to do deal with their narcissistic father. I would like to explore that connection between spiritual healing and freedom – for me and for the sake of others in the same situation. I am also an advocate for family court reform (in the US, but the problem is pervasive in many countries), such that it actually works to protect children from pathological parents rather than enforcing visitation. Thank you much! If I left two comments – I apologize – I timed out on my internet connection.
About three ago, I had what I believed to be a friendship with a co-worker who was a Narcissistc Sociopath. We were(friends)for ten years. This person really destroyed my whole life. It conned,manipulated,lied, and stole from me. I never new anything about such problems in people. Over the last three years,I have been reading everything I can about others who have ran into(people)like it was. Once it was done with me I was forced out of the company where we worked.Imay never mentaly be the same again. I was very close with him and his family. I was at his house often, around on birthdays, even when his children were born. He just wanted to take everything I had because of envy and greed. I left the state from where this happend and I am still loking for work. Monsters like he was do not care about anything but them. They will do anything to make them feel better about themselves while destroying you infront of co-workers and the community you live in
Thank you very much. I have found your web page accidentally and start reading it because I suspected that one of my fiends may suffer from NPD. I must admit I am speachless. You described our relationship word by word it is incredible. I have always thought we had this special connection, he was my other half, we had so much fun together. All of a sudden every things changed but I didn’t know and could not describe what. My attempts to speak was ignored, I was humiliated and I did not give up because I was so blind that he laves me I am special. OMG! now I can realize. I honestly don’t know how to thank you. what you are doing is great
Thank you for your clear and sensible explanations of how the Narcissist and Supply relationship works! I have gone through the death of a thousand cuts with my ex, I suspended my disbelief 14 years ago and I have to look at it as a learning experience. I didn’t know until now, now that my ex and I have been split for three years, that some people do not improve with the addition of kindness! They count on you to play by the rules and be nice, and they do just as they please! My ex would even come up with statements and observations that seemed like insights, but out of my presence, they would evaporate, I call these “perceptions”, as they aren’t actual insights. I feel that the veil has been lifted, and as I learn more about the patterns that the trauma bonds that my kids have with this person, hopefully I will be able to help them on their journey to heal from it and hopefully not repeat the same unhealthy patterns in their lives as adults! I have observed my ex’s new Supply person, and she is so good at it they may stay together forever, she would even give up custody of her kids so that she can put him first in her life, and he also fulfills her childish need for a daddy to focus on her as the favourite girl, so it’s quite grotesque for our daughters to observe.
For anyone who’s a parent, I have to say that my personal advice is to try to get sole custody and move forward as much as possible without the Narcissist in your or your kids’ lives. He may view the child as a way to continue influencing and unbalancing your life, or he may view her as a new source of narcissistic supply, either of which would be very unfortunate and unhealthy for everyone.
Thanks for the site and good luck to everyone seeking to understand and heal from these damaging relationships!
Dear Christine,
I can’t thank you enough for your dedication in putting all of the pieces together regarding how the narcissist impacts the victim’s life. I had a mother fitting these characteristics and never could figure out why I felt used in romantic relationships, like an object just valued as a statue on the mantel above the fireplace. I have had a series of very painful relationships with the most recent being as narcissistic as my mother. With 18 years together, I was tied emotionally because of a child we share, the only way to freedom was his third Driving While Intoxicated and mandatory six months in jail. After three months of peace, my body responded to the lack of controlling chaos by literally pulsating nerves in my arms. I sought help and found support and some understanding in a battered women’s program. That was three years ago and I still have a way to go to feel free, and even have the nerve to take him to court for child support and resolve the ownership of the house we own together. The fear he used to control me sent me into all of the descriptive symptoms of NVS. I am tremendously grateful for the clarification of what has happened throughout my life and want to do what I can to help this movement. Let just one person avoid this pain through my understanding and ability to pass my experience on. Your information helps me see that I was simply responding to this control. Perhaps this helps me move one step closer to no longer blaming myself for the pain I have been in and the choices I have made. I know that this information is tough to accept and it took me several reads over a period of time to not just shut it out for the pain it brought up. It is a pain that instantly makes my head become foggy and confused, with an inability to concentrate. It is part of the PTSD symptom of avoidance I am aware I have. I hope that therapists who have not had these experiences will embrace this information and offer understanding and education to those of us who struggle with accepting that someone who says they love us is continually stripping us of a feeling of safety and leaving us feeling unloveable and unloved. Thank you again. I will continue to read your website and hope to learn more. Susan
i am so glad i found this site. In my opinion it is the best site out there in computer land for NPD and the people that have to put up with this BS. I have to say the last two days have been much better since I have found this….Christine responded to me personally right away via e-mail and that meant a lot. I am 50.I have 11 degrees and certificates to include a shrink for kids. I am conventionally good looking. I was with my N from 38 to 49. He did not cheat nor did i. He wrote me love letters for the first 2-3 years of the relationship. I will try to describe this but it is still tough but I want to put this out there cause I WANT all of you to know. He was VERY covert. I could not even figure out what was going on until Dec.11th 2011.But it went like this. He was quiet. Insidious and I am one tough chick. No cussing, just this weird strange whispering under his breath.Very strange mixed message stuff. Horrible. Then all of a sudden. I was crazy, going to kill him with my small dismembered,stored guns,screaming at vegetables. I was fat, 80 IQ. Ugly. He wanted a no talking rule.Period.I could go on forever. We raised 4 kids together and after the last one was out of the house. He blew in two weeks. My daughter never saw it. My son, he now claims he knew from the get go. His daughters – one knew, one did not. I have a strict no contact policy, and it is in forced. He lives 15 min walk away and we live in a small berg. God help me. The people at the local gym just look at me with pity. The next door neighbors knew but will not tell me what he did but said it was quiet but crazy.Maybe it is because I am a therapist myself but my degree is for kids 4-22 in the school setting only. My specialty was the very high IQ ones and the really tough social emotional stuff. Words, I have heard it all and my Dad certainly was not father of the year- he tried to make-out with me once at 9 and once at 18. I just pushed him off. The son I mentioned above had a freak head injury at 2 and recovered after many years and works at a grocery store-but if you saw me on the street you would never know these things about me.You would also never know that I have worked my tail off since 13 and went to college from 18 to 48. To include U of AZ and UCDavis.BUT I want all of you to know that mine got me good. I wake up mornings like I am coming off of cocaine. I have cried more than ever and just got off a small amount of anti-anxiety. I still take a mild scrip sleeping pill. When this went down I dropped 20 pounds but have put back on 10- I needed to! I took some kind of NPD trait test on another site and he had 75 out of 100 in the end-ah not in a good way.Really. My mom has been really there to pull me out of this and of course my shrink. Two older wiser women to say the least. I just take it one day at a time and it is still tough- he brain washed me to say the least. He is 6’4′ 225lbs. Aside from his now crazy eyes, you would never know unless you got VERY emotionally close. In his mind he is now beyond GOD. Now knows everything about everything. I have major concerns with all of the people he contacts including his 6th grade students.I have to put this out there. I am a very private person.But I want you to know this is like an STD. It does not discriminate and it can happen to any of us………Christie Brinkley and others…….This site has really been very helpful as it does not address the layperson. Sometimes one needs a full explanation.Positive thoughts to all of you. Really. I know if you are on this that you are studying for work and / or really emotionally hurting. And remember heal. Authenticity. Empathy. Is what in the package real? If not do your best in the future to leave it at the door. My God have I learned my lesson the hard way. OH if you cannot get out- be your own best friend. Even if it is chewing gum and taking a short drive by yourself . I am thinking off all of you out there. Hang in…..
I spend a sunday afternoon reading the articles on this site its very handy and useful.
I have been reading about narcissism from a longtime now and my mom, dad and brother are narc’s they are damaging personalities
I started avoiding them as much as possible they are big time negativity.
I read in your articles that a narcissism mother gives rise to a narc child also. I try as much as possible to behave in a positive manner but i guess the negativity as rubbed of hard on my personality.
Lot of people avoid me for reasons unknown i dont have friends and most of the relatives keep a distance either due to their own mental illness and also i dont come across as a friendly person.
But its ok since i am no longer interested in increasing my social circle but i dont want to end up becoming frustrated, negative, reclusive and narc just like my parents.
What would be prevention for me????
Okay I am Narcissistic where do i get help in Nevada and what can I hope for in recovery? Also are there any studies about Narcolepsy and narcissism? Are there any online support groups for narcissist and how long does it take for treatment?
Christine, hi
(This is about brutal honesty, I guess.) The last year I’ve been reading a lot about NPD, narcissism, PTSD as a reaction to narcissistic abuse and so on. I have become convinced that my previous CEO fully fits the NPD-profile, and I have more or less allowed myself to be ‘gaslighted’ i.e. ‘charmed’ for some time by this grandiose personality, even though I realised straight away that she was far too candid on a personal level (and) on the wrong moments – and at the same time completely aloof as a manager when business required the opposite. In fact, her style of leadership has had quite an effect on many collegues, including their way of doing business. We’ve been through a nasty rollercoster ride that sent some of us spinning. Personally I became quite toxic towards her in the end on a few occassions, and I did so deliberately. In the first place as an act of defiance but secondly just whishing her to go away because I felt she was denying me my ‘rightful’ next step within the organisation. (To my defense, my claim was supported by management at that time, and positive change has come after her leaving, but it has frustrated my career, and to this day I’m working on re-establishing my position. But that’s allright, that’s how it goes when uppermanagement bails out on short notice, leaving their successor basically clueless).
But, more importantly: because of my ‘quest’ to find out what the heck really happened in those two and a half years of her ‘reign’, and why it affected me so much, and in a way I never could imagine it did, I also began to think more profoundly about my own conscious and subconsciuous motives, if motives is the proper word (you’ll have to excuse me, English is not my native language). I’ve always realised that I am what you may call an underachiever, being the youngest in a disruptive intergenerational family. Feeling I have to walk on eggshells is nothing new to me. I have always been a keen and distant observer, a bit of a dreamer/escapist too I guess, trying to find my way throught life combining my practical partly self-taught job skills with my streetwise wits. Careerwise I’ve always considerd myself as someone who simply was caught up in the inevitable game of one-upmanship, trying to outperform the competition. But having been in close contact with (and being dumped like a bad habit by) this larger than life employer, who touched me on a deeper level which she herself probably will never realise, has left me with serious questions about myself. I guess it was her blunt honesty about her own disharmonic background that reeled me in, even though we never ‘compared notes’ so to speak. In fact, I was amazed by the ease with which she would speak of the low expectancy that was typical of her traditional upbringing. I don’t think she was lying or even exaggerating per se, it served perhaps as a pedestal to emphasise the grandeur of the self-made-woman she became, and to justify the outlandish bonusses she claimed. That’s why information I read about narcissistic injury in particular feels like an eye opener.
So… here is my brutally honest question for you: What would you advise someone who is seriously considering the possiblility that she herself qualifies for this label… NPD?
Please take this question seriously and at face value, do not offer the notion that this is likely to be part of the ‘aftermath’. I have considered this idea for over a year, but the reason I write to you now about this – and for the very first time – is because I feel that it’s more than just that, and it’s something I should not deny any longer. I am not aggressive physically, I don’t enjoy to see fear in others or do not actively strive to make others feel like that. So, no, I’m not a coldhearted creep. In fact, a lot of what I read about personalities who show this type of ‘derailed’ narcissism I consider to be very two-dimensional. We all have narcissism in us, in fact it is part of our mental armour, but boy, some of us have taken a wrong turn with that one. These past months, I have come to see myself as always having been a calculating kind of person, also – not especially but also – where emotions are concerned. What do I really feel, why is this situation making me feel so and so? Why is my first inclination to respond so and so? (read: defensive). My ‘filtering-system’ is constantly switched on, and I realise now I cannot remember the time since age 4 it wasn’t, and the only moment you will find me truly spontanious is when I ‘win’ (a succes on the job, or a simple argument, a quiz-amswer, it doesn’t matter). That’s because, I think now, this means an affirmation of my Self (yep, with a capital S). Is it possible to be aware of one’s own narcissistic blockade, which may be a defense-barrier that never can be lifted, a second nature, and deal with it by A) simply acknowledging that it’s there, and accept that everything, every impression, can only come in through this filter, and B) be a decent albeit rationalized person (trust me, I haven’t been quite so introspective in the past, even though I thought I was this introspective truth-seeker all along).
I would highly appreciate your thoughts on this. Many thanks in advance.
Dear Nicole,
Thank you for your post, I am sorry if you are wounded by anything I have said, that was not my intention. If you felt traumatized by what I said, then it can only be because you did not understand my statement, because I am on the side of all who have been narcissistically abused (men, women and children). Seeing how upset you were, I almost did not answer your post, but on second thoughts I felt it was important to do so, because I don’t think you realized what you were saying, and how unfair you are being to those victims who have experienced female narcissistic abuse.
I accept that the research does indicated that males are the predominant perpetrators when it comes to Narcissistic abuse, I did not dispute that. However the most up-to-date research also shows that there is a marked shift in the numbers of women presenting with narcissistic behaviors……that was all that I said.
Narcissists are individuals, so whether they are male or female, or whether they fall into the category of the majority or the minority, the abuse is equally devastating to the victim of that individual. By assuming that it is only males that are capable of being narcissistic perpetrators is not healthy, because it denys the suffering that is equally caused to the victims by female perpetrators, and distorts the truth. The suffering is just the same whether it is wielded out by a male or female, that is why I am shedding light on this fact.
I have worked with many victims of narcissistic abuse, and it is my experience that most victims don’t even know that they have been narcissistically abused until it is named. Once named, I then encourage victims to research narcissistic traits for themselves. Usually, the nearest a victim comes to naming their abuse is to call it domestic violence or bullying, and in most cases the victim is talking about the perpetrator being a male. I wonder if this was your own experience, before you educated yourself on male narcissistic abuse could you name it? It has also been my experience that victims of female narcissistic abuse are equally surprised to get a name for their abuse. Those who experience female narcissistic abuse report that they are not usually believed, or taken seriously when they report the abuse to the police or to their doctors. And yes you are right, they were labeled as histrionic, hysterical, bi-polar and crazy-markers, or even worse some report that their doctors prescribed medication as the panacea for what was ailing them.
You admit yourself that there are female offenders, yet you seem to think that the abuse carried out by a female narcissist is somehow of less value, or less devastating on the victim. I don’t think you intentionally meant to do this, but that is what you are doing. It is this kind of remark “that is a slap in the face” to every victim who had been abused by a female narcissist. Society likes to think that all women are sweet, caring, kind, nurturing good-mother’s, unfortunately they are not, at least not when they suffer from a narcissistic personality disorder. Naming the narcissist (whether they are male or female), and making their behaviours transparent for all to understand, is actually going a long way to fight for the rights of ALL victims, and not as you say re-victimizing them. I am sorry to say that you seem to have missed the point all-together. I would urge you to please take the time to research female narcissistic abuse in the same way you researched male narcissistic abuse. This way you could help the likes of me to bring this form of abuse into public awareness, and stomp out the stigma that goes with it. All victims of narcissistic crimes deserve to get help and support, but you have even a lesser chance of justice if you are abused by a female narcissist…….and that is a fact. You only have to ask any male, female or child who has suffered from such abuse.
I would be happy to put you in touch with people who have experienced female narcissistic abuse if that would help, that way you could hear what they have to say on the matter for yourself.
Warmest regards,
Christine Louis de Canonville
Christine
i want to thankyou for this website and tell you a little bit about my story with an NPD ex-wife.
first off we had a VERY short courtship before we married(she was here illegally and needed a green card soon) and i ignored plenty of red flags and im sure there were plenty more that i was too ignorant to see.
after we married she had to have everything all her way or she would scream and yell and slap and hit and break things and throw things.
within a year of this going on i started to really suffer with depression and wound up in a crisis center.my mother convinced me to go.
i was in therapy and on meds for depression for about a yr after our 5 yr marriage was over. it took me that long to perceivably recover.to this day,ten years later i still feel like i have a wound inside.
The thing i wanted to point out to you is what a county mental health therapist said to me during therapy,he said “mark you got ****ed on” and then he said something to the effect of “deal with it”
what kind of therapy is there for people with PTSD etc???
in my experience i dont see where talk therapy is much better than talking to and getting advice from most any caring,compassionate, empathetic person.
but people like that are few and far between.
anyway thankyou and take care.
Christine,
This was such good reading, all the comments and stories from everyone. I have been a victim, a 2 yr relationship with a man with this disorder. I never thought that much about it, just thought he had a Big Ego, and was a bit sekf centered with not much of a conscience. Now, I see that unfortunately, something has happened in his upbring by his parents, or brtoehrs, that has effected him. I believe after his mother and father divorced, the mother had some kind of need for the attention form her son (from what he told me once) he was about 8 yrs old at the time, and his mother wanted him to sleeo in her room with her (absence of the husband/father) anyways, he is a very attractive, masculine guy, now in his 40′s that gets a lot of attention from women, and feeds on that. He is a Sex addict, addicted to Pornography..I could go on and on, but always needing praise and feeling power over others. After i saw a blog posted on the internet about him, I started researching, when a woman from his past or man, anonymously commented at wrote in the message Narcissistic personality disorder. Since I was not aware of this disorder, why would I be, I had been married in the past long term to someone that was not like this at all. I grew up in a great family with loving parents, that were married for over 50 yrs. How would I get caught up with someone like him? well, his good looks, charm, acting lile he really cared about me, but I was just his victim for his own personal pleasure, use…Many women commented on the post that this person put up about him. I brought it to his attention when I googled his name one time. He blows it off as oh, some physco from my past theres bound to be a few you encounter when you are single your whole life. Well, after doing all this research, and reading, Im happy to say, that Im going to walk, I mean RUN away from this guy, and never look back. I am a single woman, and very attractive, There are so many decent normal guys out there, its time for me to move on and meet someone that wil love and cherish me, not spend time with me, then the rest of the time, who knows who he is spending time with ( other women) yes….Very sad….life will get better now.
Also, atleast now I know what to look out for when dating…I will be able to spot simeine like this in a short time now..thanks for all the good info everyone
Having been in a relationship with a narcissist wife, on one of my low days this thought about a “yogurt pot” came to my mind:-
The Yogurt Pot:
Don’t waste your time trying to make her realise that what she is doing and has done to you is wrong,
and try and instil in her feelings of guilt as she has no way to have these feelings,
its like she has thrown away a used yogurt pot after eating the contents.
She has no conscience, regrets or feelings of guilt, as she has used you like the contents of that pot,
and her feelings are like, “why should I feel guilty or even think about what I have done after throwing
away a used and now useless yogurt pot that I have no further use for”.
Absolutely remarkable site. I am most grateful for what I have read so far. Great personal significance for daughter of narcissistic mother
Is there help for a narcissist to change his ways?
I am just frozen. I am an old gal 57 just learning about this. ouch better late than never. My father was a pro football player in the 50s had many jobs including working in colleges and schools and landed his own business and made quite a bit of money. He sexually abused me at a very early age. So i lack quite a bit of early childhood development. insult to injury I do now believe my mother was also caught in his trap. Everything was about him as my two older brothers and myself grew up around this man. I know I had no voice in any matter. Once after the sexual abuse I remember sitting on the back porch with my big dog I had grown up with. I was very angry at this man. My dog sensed this and growled at him. Next thing I knew he was kicking the dog all over the yard. i knew then to keep my feelings to myself especially towards this man. growing up I was to not have any feelings likes or dislikes of my own. even when I felt so hopeless and cried he would even belittle me about that. I was to feel as he did. I even had to try to read his mind. I remember him being sadist he would like to put me in dangerous situations and then love me afterwards. I don’t want to go on but I would say all my relationships have been with these controllers and why because i learned to have no voice.when I was young I would get physical in relationships because how dare they control me like they did and I had my dad to run home to…weird huh? I was totally dependent on my dad that man and my mother all my life. even now he is my payee for disability and pays my therapist. though late in life now I am slowly moving away from him. I feel the damage he has done to me is just unspeakable and I have never been seen as normal. Even the worst of it is my mother passed away 11 years ago and on her dying bed this man started in on me..though I could not hear his stinging words my body became overheated and I felt helpless and my dying mother could only say her baby. my dad that man just laughed and said look at your mother trying to protect you even now. cringe! to add insult to injury the condo I had that he bought after mom died he sold. i had a daughter and young granddaughter at this time..he moved us into an apartment then his house. I had been in theraphy at this point for 11 years. I kinda learned to stand up for myself and then i started seeing for the first time in my life how abusive he is. but in truth he still scares me in a strange way. I know he could be dangerous even in his old age. I just learned when i was living with him that if the hose was not working right so to say it wasn’t my fault and I told him so. If the sun was rising it wasn’t my fault. so much to say…he then decided to attack my granddaughter. of course behind close doors and so good at it even my daughter didn’t catch on..but I stood up to him andtold he was emotionally abusing my granddaughter (he did try physical and sexual abuse i was able to interrupt) anyway when i told him he was emotionally abusing my granddaughter he became worse towards her and kicked me out of the house. he has not my daughter or my granddaughter but the others my brother and his kids believing i am nuts and it is all my fault. though the man did buy my daughter a townhouse..just a note my oldest brother drank himself to death he passed at 51 years old he told me he would not quit drinking and his biggest fear in life was he would be like my father. actually when my father kicked me out of the house i was suppose to go to my room and become infantile..roll up i didn’t. I want to add that our childhood pictures I wanted but I know he didn’t want me to have them. he snuck them out of the house and acted like the pictures never existed. everybody thought I was nuts including a close friend. I told them there was a suitcase of these pictures..anyway somebody was looking out for me because before he got the pictures out of the house my niece had gone through them. if she hadnn’t everybody would have thought I was crazy…anyway this is just a piece of it..and it breaks my heart to realize not only did this man not love me or my brothers but hated us. I want to think that they do have feelings…and it is still a hard pill to swallow to accept that he has more than proved he is all about himself. I actually believe he bought that townhouse believing my daughter and myself could not keep it up and we are having a time ..and me knowing him just makes him more evil. I could go on about the stuff he has done and after I stood up to him I believe he wanted me dead though I do believe this isn’t the first time in my life he has wanted me dead..In otherwords unvieling this kind of person can be dangerous..i am going to try to turn my therapist more on to this and i hope she can help me…I read somewhere that these people are just evil to sum them up..though that doesn’t help me..and i really still need a voice!!! and by the way my x husband another quite like my father lives close to me though i do believe my daughter has his number (xhusband 3 year marriage) he isn’t quite as conning as my father but he is also one of the best I must say…I want a voice and I am so tired of these kind of people just exhausted!!! I feel like I am just learning to crawl in learning of the hell I have experienced and I do stay from relationships I am about to not have any friends…but but wait…I guess i am a bit like my dead brother i don’t want to be like dad in any form. I think I have to much empathy Unhealthy and am so afraid of harming others…ooh well i am just a mess but I am gonna at least get over this if not over under it how ever way i can learn to accept!! And grow up!
Wow, great resource. I respect what you and others have written here. As a therapist I am sure this info will continue to help me grow in my ability to recognize this syndrome and its consequences on its targets/victims more than I have in the past. Thanks.
First a response to Sherry, who commented above. You are not crazy. Being around people who are crazy can make you feel as if you are, but you are not. I do not want to play a therapist role, as I am not qualified but I do believe you need to cut ties with your Father completely. Not in a fight. Not in some dramatic way, but in just a quiet, steady pace. I want to add that I know this because I am you in many ways. As a child, for a long time, I thought I was invisible. I suffered some pretty tramatic events at a young age and quit talking for awhile. No one noticed. My Mother was such a kind woman, but she was just in over their head and could not take care of the way too many children that she and my Father brought into this world. Six children in six years. My Father was an alcoholic, a workaholic and narcistic, yet he was never anything but kind to me when I did see him, which wasn’t too often growing up. I suspect he was harder on the older children. Now so many years later, most of them will not talk to me because I did not suffer in the way they did but I did suffer. I had a learning disability and they just never diagnoised that in the 60′s and I remember walking home from school one time and my siblings were all excited to show my parents their report cards, as they all were excellent students. I made the walk slowly, anticipating the remark about me being stupid coming from my Father but instead, he said, well, at least your pretty. I thought at the time it was a compliment. I know my older sisters glarred at me. I married a man exactly like my Father, but he was cruel, where my Father wasn’t so outwardly mean to me. I can remember him being unkind to my Mother. Never physically, but mentally, definetly. Now, I sit in the middle of WA state in the middle of the night, unable to sleep because of the guilt I have for knowing that I needed to leave my marriage 20 years before I did and I have a daughter who will never recover from the whole ordeal. 33 years old and is sleeping on my couch. Addicted to almost everything. Right now, its food..but she switches around her addictions. Finds no value in her life at all and I refuse to throw her in the streets. I knew he was cruel. I knew he was mean. I knew he didn’t like her…but at the time, all the 22 years of us being together, I thought I could not survive without him. I isolate myself now, he doesn’t need to anymore. I am 52 years old and am lonely but will not let anyone in my life…who would ever understand my baggage? I search for answers but the simplest things make me overwhelmed.
Ok…I’ve said it. I have vented this out finally. My former husband’s last words to me were this, verbatim. “I’m not saying I am going to kill you or anything, but I am gonna make your life not worth living”. I really thought I would not give him the power. I really bought into the cliches that people say, like letting him live rent free in my head, etc, but it all comes down to not knowing how to live any other way and going from one extreme to another, such as, I will live in love to I live in fear. Usually the fear wins. At least tonight.
I am glad to finally see this issue addressed. I never knew the name of the situation I was living in, but I knew how it felt. I do not want my life to be about regret and sadness. I want to be happy but I really need a road map with step by step directions. Thank you, Ms. Canonville, for bringing to light something that I have never heard anyone ever address before.
Oh my gosh. Why has it taken me 51 years to find this out? An unloving mother, an absent father. First separation I was 4. Parents divorced I was 6. Mother remarried a schitzo who tried to kill her. She rejected me over and over. No contact with her for 20 years. First husband’s father a lunatic. His mother vicious and nasty. First husband died in 2009 but he has the typical Jeckell and Hyde. Abusive in every way. Arrested so many times. I felt paralysed. I could not leave. I cried out for help. Was never there. Even as far as trying an NGO. Then I just accepted that it was my fate. Accept and don’t deny. Then I became depressed and lived in a cloud of cottonwool. Now I am back on anti depressants and have lost my short term memory again. And all it does is cover up the pain. I also lost a child and live with fear that I might have not done enough and that’s why he died. Everything is so higgledepigglede. My new husband is the love of my life but I always feel as if I am not good enough. I don’t have the energy to fight with him or reprimand him or tell him to buzz off when he raises his voice or gets angry or passes a snide remark. Instead I cry and withdraw and feel rejected. Nothing lasts forever. I feel his distance from me – physically and sexually. I don’t want to lose him but deep inside something wants me to run again. To hide and to stay there. If I had known there was this disease I would have sought out a therapist who understood it. Instead I have recently again been in therapy and this was never raised. Thank you – maybe I can try to understand that I don’t have to be a victim again. I need to be empowered. I have to find my own footprints.
I experienced the same things as Kelly in a previous post. My mother hated me from the day I was born and still does (yes, there are mothers that hate their own children). This is a woman who only cared about being the center of attention with men (and boys). She was horribly abusive. My grandparents took me when I was four years old due to my mother breaking my arm. I didn’t have contact with my mother again until I was 12. What a mistake that was! My father was physically abusive too (I don’t remember them ever being together).
I ended up marrying a man just like them. I ended up going into a battered women’s shelter and leaving the state to protect our daughter from him (the judge let him have unsupervised visits after a year and her whole personality changed). He was sadistic, cruel, had no compassion for others, only cared about what he wanted, etc.. He is now in a prison in Florida for murdering his girlfriend and he is a suspect in other murders.
I don’t date anymore or go out much at all. I feel that I have bad taste in men and I’m not going to risk my life or my children’s anymore. I am finally at peace somewhat.
Do you know of any therapists with Narcissistic Victim syndrome experience in the Los Angeles, California, area?
Hello-
I too believe that I have been involved with a N. I am in the middle of divorce proceedings right now after a long 30 year marriage with this man. He is doing everything possible to hurt me during this process and leave me with nothing. I accept this because my life has never been as peaceful as I have experienced in the past 6 months since I left the home. I knew there was something terribly different with this man. In 2008, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, not once did he attend appointments with me. I was even in the hospital for over a week and for the first several days he didn’t even come to see me. He has isolated himself from his entire family (8 siblings) as well as from both of his daughters. He has no feeling or empathy for anyone in his life. It is his way or no way. He has already started a relationship with another woman and the part that concerns me is that I don’t even care. I have been by myself for the past 7 months and although I miss having a relationship, I am very fearful of my own ability to have a relationship with healthy boundaries. I know that I should get some type of therapy – but, I am afraid right now that if I do it will be used against me. I love living a life where I no longer feel like I am walking on egg shells. I hope that time will heal all of the emotional wounds that have been left from this terrible mistake.
Hi Bill,
I am sorry to hear that you were in a relationship with a narcissist, however I am very glad to hear
that you managed to get out after two years. You were blessed finding a therapist who understood and
named that you were suffering from NVS, that really gladdens my heart to hear that.
Unfortunately I cannot answer your really good question because I simply don’t know the answer. Personally
I think most victims (male, female, gay or otherwise)have little or no idea of what they are dealing with
when in relationship with a narcissist, they all suffer the same abuse, and are left reeling and confused
from the relationship.
I think that Narcissism is much more prevalent than realized, and studies by Jean M. Twenge, Ph.D. confirm that
both changes among individuals, and changes in the culture has led to an epidemic of narcissism to-day. Without doubt,
the increase in narcissism is stronger for women that for men (in both sets of data)…… so women are catching
up fast on their male counterparts. I have had visitors to my site from over 150 countries, so that will tell you how wide spread NPD really
is… it is a Universal phenomenon.
Many people think that a narcissistic personality is rather harmless……. that they love themselves, and spend a lot of time looking at themselves in the mirror. If only it were that simple. People need to be educated so that they can protect themselves from been “hooked” in the first place. I bet you will be quick to spot the narcissist in company from now on.
Warmest regards.
Christine Louis de Canonville
Hi Cindy,
So sorry to hear that you have lived 30 years in such a loveless marriage with a narcissistic husband.
You are still not completely free, and you can expect him to make the divorce as difficult as he can,
this is typical.
It sounds as if you are finding life without him easier, and yes, of course you miss not having someone
to share your life with, that is absolutely normal. As for the other woman, you have nothing to be jealous
about there. You know that as soon as he has her hooked he will be exactly the same with her as he was with you,
and he will make her life miserable.
Narcissists leave you not being able to trust your own instincts anymore. Victims usually end up so confused as
to what happened that they are afraid to get involved again….just in case it happens again. Seven months is not
very long, especially after 30 years of marriage, and what you need right now is to start enjoying your new life
of freedom, and get to know yourself again.
Therapy would be good, it could help you identify the areas that make you vulnerable as narcissistic supply. Once
you know those unconscious defense mechanisms, you can set about changing them and putting healthy boundaries in place.
Remember, you are 30 years older then you were when you first married….. probably not more than a girl really, a life-time ago.
But you have come a long way since then, and your narcissistic husband will have thought you what you would not want in another
partnership.
You are right when you say that he may use the fact that you are attending therapy. What you need right now is to stay as
strong as you can for the battle ahead (the divorce), but perhaps when you are free from that, you
could then consider if therapy would be good for you. A good therapist, one who understands Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
would probably work best for you….. if they understand Narcissistic Victim Syndrome that is even better.
In the meantime, it would be good if you were to educate yourself as much as you can on NPD. Once you understand the
behaviour you are more likely to spot one without being hooked as their victim. What you learn you can bring into the
therapy room and work through with the therapist. If your therapist is not familiar with NPD or Narcissistic Victim Syndrome,
then you will be giving them an opportunity to educate themselves about the things that I talk about on my site (Stockholm Syndrome,
gaslighting, narcissistic supply, trauma bonding, etc). Therapist are always learning from their clients, it is a two way relationship
of learning.
Warmest regards.
Christine
Hi Vivien,
I am sorry to say that I do not know of any therapist in L.A., to be honest, not too many therapist are trained in narcissistic abuse, that is why I started my site (with therapists in mind). However don’t let that put you off. I would suggest the following:-
1. Learn as much as you can about narcissistic abuse yourself (the gaslighting behaviour, the trauma bonding, the control, etc.), you don’t have to be an expert, so don’t go over board worrying about learning everything. The Forums of narcissistic abuse are very informative because victims share a lot of their experiences with other victims. You can bring this knowledge into the therapy room, and look at how you have been affected by it with the therapist.
2. I advise you strongly to find yourself a psychotherapist who is trained in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, (as most victims of narcissistic abuse suffer from PTSD). In order to survive a narcissist, the individual will have developed unconscious defense mechanisms. These wonderful defense mechanisms will have served the individual well, allowing them to survive the war zone they have been in. Some of these mechanisms are identified by the following behaviours (being too passive, being a pleaser, enabling, poor boundaries etc.). The problem is that these ways of behaving makes the individual attractive to all narcissists…….. and like a moth to a flame, the narcissist can spot their next victim almost immediately. This is why it is important to do therapy, to do your own recovery work, and to learn and understand what it is you may be doing that will attract other narcissists in the future……. otherwise you could be a sitting duck. Remember, narcissists are not always confined to romantic relationships, they can be friends, co-workers, bosses etc. That is why it is not unusual for a person to see that they keep attracting the same type of person to them time and time again.
3. Change your own behaviour so that you protect yourself from becoming re-victimized. Narcissists will not be attracted to people who have good boundaries, well, not for long anyway. People with good boundaries are less likely to settle for a co-dependent relationship where they give everything and get little in return. When you enter into a relationship with a narcissist this is exactly what they demand.
I hope this is of some help to you.
Best of luck on your journey of discovery. If you find a therapist perhaps you would post it on the site, because many visitors to this site
are from California.
Warmest regards.
Christine
Hi Susie,
You ask me how you can get this information across to your counsellor.
Why not tell him the truth. You have been doing your own research in order to understand
the work you are uncovering together, and you came across the word Narcissism. When you
read the various articles it led you to wonder if this is what had happened to you.
Your counsellor may or may not know about narcissistic abuse, most counsellors don’t really
know much about it. But that need not be a problem. Use the technical terms you are coming
across (gaslighting, co-dependency, Jackall & Hyde personalities, Walking on eggshells, etc). You could say that
you have articles written by a psychotherapist who works in this area, and share the information
with him. Remember, he does not need to know how to work with a narcissist, what is needed is that
he understands the depth of abuse and suffering you have gone through with your narcissist.
It is important for you to discover the things that you did that attracted your narcissist to you
(i.e. your passivity, your “pleasing” nature, your enabling, giving too much and asking for little back etc.).
Narcissists do not pick just anybody for their victim. They want sweet, kind, gentle people who
will put them first above everyone else…..someone who will make them feel special”. At first the narcissist comes
across as a delight, they will even act in a very seductive way that makes them look sweet, kind,and gentle themselves.
This is all a ploy to hook their victim. The victim really believes that they have meet their soul-mate, and they fall
for all the illusions the narcissist spins in their web of deception. Once hooked, the victim is going to suffer, and at
some stage they will find themselves all alone, sucked dry, feeling very confused and broken.
Many people have written to me asking this same question (because they knew that their counsellor did not fully understand
what they have suffered). It is for that reason that I compiled the collection of articles in one ebook on my site. People
can buy the book and download it onto their computer, and email it to someone else. If you think it would be helpful, and
that your counsellor would find the articles useful for working with you, you could either tell him about my site, or make
him a present of the ebook. You could then pick out the things that resonate with you…………. For example, if you
are finding it impossible to let your narcissist go, you could discuss with your therapist the possibility that you may have
trauma bonded with them. If you felt that you were loosing your mind, you could explore the Gaslighting Behaviour that happened
within your relationship. You could also look at the different faces of your narcissistic abuser as they lead the relationship
through different phases; The Idealization Stage, Devaluation Stage, and the Discard Stage.
It is important that you learn about yourself, how you lost yourself in the relationship, because you don’t want to find
yourself repeating this again. Narcissists are attracted to those people who are already conditioned in the narcissists dance
…… and by the sounds of it, you did dance the dance. If you are realizing that there has been more than one narcissist in
your life, then it really is useful to find the first source, because that would have been the place where you would have used
unconscious defense mechanisms in order to survive (especially if you were young). In my case it was a narcissistic brother
whom I loved. The older he got the worse his behaviour became, he did a lot of damage before I ever worked out that he was
suffering from a narcissistic personality disorder. Unfortunately I went on to attract similar behaviour from other narcissists,
finally I asked what was the common dominator here? To my horror I found the answer was “ME!” That was the best question I
ever asked in my life, because that set me on a journey to discover my behaviour that left me wide open to be abused. I must
admit I felt a bit of a fool to discover this, but it was a fascinating journey to discover and understand the unconscious
defense mechanisms at work…… without them I would not have survived as well as I have.
I wish you the best of luck on your journey of recovery, and remember, there is life after narcissism.
Warmest regards.
Christine
Hi Kirsti,
I am so sorry to hear your story, unfortunately it is a common theme where the narcissist continues to exercise control
where ever possible. Unfortunately the courts, doctors, solicitors, etc. don’t really understand what narcissism is, and the victimization
that goes with this behaviour. The only real support seems to only come from people who have experienced and identified
the behavior for themselves, unfortunately even many therapists don’t have a clue what they are dealing with, they think
it is “domestic violence” the victim is talking about. Of course, it is domestic violence, but with a very bid + added.
It is a shock to discover that the person you loved may be a malignant narcissist, it takes a lot to get your head around
that idea alone, and even worse to have to face the fact that they never really loved you in the way that you thought they did.
Having a child together makes the whole experience even worse, because he will do his utmost to control you through your little
boy, he knows that this emotionally hurt you to your core. Take care of yourself, connect yourself to a good support system of
family and friends if you possibly can. Stop protecting him, or making excuses for him, let those close to you know about his
behaviour towards you…… cover-ups don’t really work because others people just get tired of the conversation going round
and round in circles.
Warmest regards.
Christine
Hello Deborah,
I am so sorry to hear of your narcissistic abuse. Right from the start of your life you were being conditioned
to dance the narcissists dance, so it is no wonder you went on to marry such a man. One little consolation is that
you managed to get away from him, otherwise your could have lost your life too.
I can understand that you find it easier to be on your own, it is safer for you, but you must also be lonely.
It is probably not so much that you have bad taste in men, I think it is more that you do not recognize narcissistic
behaviour until you are already hooked. Narcissists are drawn to those people who have already been narcissistically
conditioned to comply and be passive, give away all your power so that you become powerless.
There is life after narcissistic abuse, but it means doing plenty of research of the subject, and then looking at yourself
to see your own behaviour (passivity, lack of boundaries, low self esteem, etc.). In order to claim back ones power and become empowered in a way where you can attract healthy men where you can enter into a partnership that is equal. The narcissist does not do “equal”,
they have to be the dominant one in the relationship.
Warmest regards to you and your daughter.
Keep safe.
Christine
Thank you Christine. Good points and good words of encouragement.
Hi Christine,
thank you for opening my eyes on narcissist behavior. I have been with a narcissist for 13 yrs.I was always told it’s “my fault”. And your imagining things and your crazy and your seeing things. We are still married. But we no longer live in the same residents. But since I’ve left I’ve been suffering from axienty,guilt,insomia,and lack of self-esteem. And I often felt like I have to second guess myself. I’m trying to work on my self esteem. And my confidents. Because some days I don’t have it.but I mainly focus on the here and now. And I try to remain hopeful for my future. I just wanted to thank you for your article.im glad im not alone in this.
I was married to a narcissist psycopath for 3 years.. first i was his diva, i could do no wrong. after we got married, he dedicated the 3 years of marriage to tearing me down.. after he was done with me, he filed for divorce..twice. I was left in emotional shambles. i felt like i had been lured into a boxing ring and i was the punching bag. it has been horrible not knowing what happened, how it happened, why me..what did i do wrong, for three years i lived like a zombie, not being able to react, in total shock, in denial. worst of all, no one believed me. i was paranoid, fearful, i felt terrorized, afraid, manipulated. why? how could someone that i love and was so nice to me all of a sudden turn into a monster?, that was the shock i wasnt able to get over. it was three years of shock, like a non stop 9/11..my car was tampered with, i had unexplainable flat tires, my dogs were poisoned, i was being followed. then the threats started..he belonged to the mafia, he had a gun, he wanted 10,000 dollars to get out fo my life, he could send people to kill me if he wanted to. <i started running for my life. at first i would lock myself in my car and sleep there or go to my mothers or the police station for a night. <he accused me of having lovers, he was paranoid. Finally, it escalated to domestic violence, he physically hurt me..that was the beginning of the end. But, the mental anguish remained, the emotional guilt for reasons i know not. it was not my fault but, he made me feel guilty, like i deserved it, i did it to us not him. then he would be oh so sorry for everythign, it was never going to happen again, and the rollercoaster ride never ended. until, i got out and disappeared, and filed a police report. he followed me around and was obssesed with me, he stalked me in the parking lot, the mall, places he knew i would visit. on a red light he thrust half his body in my car and accused me of cheating on him and that is why he was divorcing me. he scared me to death.. i dont know where he had come from. <my head was in a cloud of darkness, my thoughts were not my own, i felt so sorry for him, so much sympathy for him, i felt so bad for filing the police report, i had such empathy for him, i though him a helpless child…i was the bad one. how could i leave him and dare to think of me. how tortured i was within, fighting to get myself free yet at the same time, hurting from it. i lived alone after i left and sometimes i felt his presence in my apt. i could practically see him there, accusing me of being so evil to him, its like he would get into my mind and my soul. like if i was infected with a virus i couldnt shake and it was taking over me. i felt like a force pulled towards him i helplessly had to go with it, which i almost did, if it wasn´t for all the major mistakes he made. he claimed i was crazy, i needed to get my head checked..oh yeah, that i needed. so i agreed to have me taken to see a therapist.. as long as he came along for the ride. and guess what..after a few sessions i had a private one with the psychologist and she informed he was a psycopath. shock of my life..i had to look it up and my path to freedom began..i studied and studied.. i was so relived at all i was learning..wow, i was normal after all..i was a victim..i didnt do it.it wasnt my fault, i was actually a nice person living with pure evil. i have to go now but i will continue…thanks for this website and all websites like this one..
Hello Everyone, i am so sad to read all these experiences and how they have destroyed lives, mainly womens lives. I am on the road to healing now, and it started the moment i learned i was dealing with a psycho. Wow, it was so freeing, all along i blamed myself, i second guessed myself, doubted myself, and then, the tables were turned. All long he had the POWER because i was in the dark as to the WHY of it all..and then i knew, and all of a sudden, the power came back to me, my power that i had given away so easily. Once i had with me, he shrunk in size. Becasue i knew. Knowledge is power sisters. In my case, i have tried to deal with my emotional pain and the psychological terror he put me through by putting myself in his shoes. He tried to make me like him. Hateful and vindictive, jealous and envious, depressed and empty, dishonest and all that other bad stuff..but I refuse to hate, i refuse all that negativity that he carries around, i refuse to let him empty all his poison in me..no let him carry it around. its his not mine. I feel sorry for him. I cant imagine lving life that why..i pray for him, i try to look at life his way, only to try to understand the darkness he lives in. In my road to healing i have made the decision that this is not about me.. its about him, he is the sick one. I mean, i can heal thanks be to God, and to communities like this one that shed the light on victims of psychopaths. But, he will never heal, he will live his life in this manner for ever. I can run away from him but he cant run away from himself….he doesnt need and enemy cause he is his worst enemy. How sad to live your life fighting yourself, hating and loving yourself all at the same time..how tortured an existance. Sisters, I have suffered, but he lives in hell everyday..
I am so sorry to hear your sad story Solange….. unfortunately your story is not unique. I am so glad that you found a therapist who understood what you were experiencing, and could see through your psychopathic partner. Now that is not so usual, many narcissistic psychopaths manage to seduce the therapist into taking their side….. and you can imagine what that does to the victim who is already beginning to believe they are going mad.
You must be a very strong person to survive the war-zone you were in. Escaping from such a personality is a highly dangerous task, but you did it, and that gives hope to others going through what you have been through. There is life after a psychopath, but it takes a time before you get your balance back….. so hang in there.
Hi Solange, I am so sorry to hear your sad story….. unfortunately your story is not unique. I am so glad that you found a therapist who understood what you were experiencing, and could see through your psychopathic partner. Now that is not so usual, many narcissistic psychopaths manage to seduce the therapist into taking their side….. and you can imagine what that does to
the victim who is already beginning to believe they are going mad.
You must be a very strong person to survive the war-zone you were in. Escaping from such a personality is a highly dangerous task, but you did it, and that gives hope to others going through what you have been through. There is life after a psychopath, but it takes a time before you get your balance back….. so hang in there.
Christine
Dear Christine,
Thank you so much for your response. You’re right- their is no explaining it. What makes that such a tough pill to swallow is that I’m a writer- so is he- that’s how we met, through a circle of writers. So not being able to explain something to a group of open minded people is nerve wracking.
Even if I did explain it well enough I’m sure their would be women who would see what they want to see, think they could be “The One” to change him. I’m sure I would have done the same thing.
I indeed have PTSD and have been working through it. Some days are harder than others. Some days I just want to wrap my self in the delusion and day dream about the beginning. Then the next day I feel a backlash of inner anger. It’s the awful 3 month relationship that’s last 2.5 years.
You’re spot on about the journey. I was in a bad spot when I got plucked up by him- I remember the exact moment he spotted the vulnerability on me- I could see his eyes change.
I was in need of a life change and this wasn’t what I bargained for but it’s become a lens which I’ve been able to see the world- a lot of things I didn’t want to know.
Now I can see them coming miles away, too. The tiniest red flag and I turn heel. And there are more of them then I thought. But, Like Mr. Rodgers said about when their are bad things happening: Look for the helpers. Which is what I found on the site- people all convening with the same experience, I felt less crazy knowing other women had been through this..
I’m having to let go of a lot of friends because of his influence over them, but this exchange makes me very hopeful. Thank you!
Kate, Sorry you have been a victim of narcissistic abuse, at least your eyes are opened now, and that must be good. It sounds like
you may be suffering the effects of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, something that is common as a result of long term narcissistic abuse. Keep doing what you are doing, and if things don’t change within 6 months, then you may need to think about doing some therapy.
Hi Bill, I am sorry to hear that you were in a relationship with a narcissist, however I am very glad to hear that you managed to get out after two years. You were blessed finding a therapist who understood and named that you were suffering from NVS, that really gladdens my heart to hear that.
Unfortunately I cannot answer your really good question because I simply don’t know the answer. Personally I think most victims (male, female, gay or otherwise)have little or no idea of what they are dealing with when in relationship with a narcissist, they all suffer the same abuse, and are left reeling and confused from the relationship.
I think that Narcissism is much more prevalent than realized, and studies by Jean M. Twenge, Ph.D. confirm that both changes among individuals, and changes in the culture has led to an epidemic of narcissism to-day. Without doubt, the increase in narcissism is stronger for women that for men (in both sets of data)…… so women are catching up fast on their male counterparts. I have had visitors to my site from over 150 countries, so that will tell you how wide spread NPD really is… it is a Universal phenomenon.
Many people think that a narcissistic personality is rather harmless……. that they love themselves, and spend a lot of time looking at themselves in the mirror. If only it were that simple. People need to be educated so that they can protect themselves from been “hooked” in the first place. I bet you will be quick to spot the narcissist in company from now on.
Warmest regards.
Hi Cindy, So sorry to hear that you have lived 30 years in such a loveless marriage with a narcissistic husband. You are still not completely free, and you can expect him to make the divorce as difficult as he can, this is typical.
It sounds as if you are finding life without him easier, and yes, of course you miss not having someone to share your life with, that is absolutely normal. As for the other woman, you have nothing to be jealous about there. You know that as soon as he has her hooked he will be exactly the same with her as he was with you, and he will make her life miserable.
Narcissists leave you not being able to trust your own instincts anymore. Victims usually end up so confused as to what happened that they are afraid to get involved again….just in case it happens again. Seven months is not very long, especially after 30 years of marriage, and what you need right now is to start enjoying your new life of freedom, and get to know yourself again.
Therapy would be good, it could help you identify the areas that make you vulnerable as narcissistic supply. Once you know those unconscious defense mechanisms, you can set about changing them and putting healthy boundaries in place. Remember, you are 30 years older then you were when you first married….. probably not more than a girl really, a life-time ago. But you have come a long way since then, and your narcissistic husband will have thought you what you would not want in another partnership.
You are right when you say that he may use the fact that you are attending therapy. What you need right now is to stay as strong as you can for the battle ahead (the divorce), but perhaps when you are free from that, you could then consider if therapy would be good for you. A good therapist, one who understands Post Traumatic Stress Disorder would probably work best for you….. if they understand Narcissistic Victim Syndrome that is even better.
In the meantime, it would be good if you were to educate yourself as much as you can on NPD. Once you understand the behaviour you are more likely to spot one without being hooked as their victim. What you learn you can bring into the therapy room and work through with the therapist. If your therapist is not familiar with NPD or Narcissistic Victim Syndrome, then you will be giving the an opportunity to educate themselves about the things that I talk about on my site (Stockholm Syndrome, gaslighting, narcissistic supply, trauma bonding, etc).
Hi Vivien, I am sorry to say that I do not know of any therapist in L.A., to be honest, not to many therapist are trained in narcissistic abuse, that is why I started my site (with therapists in mind). However don’t let that put you off. I would suggest the following:-
1. Learn as much as you can about narcissistic abuse yourself (the gaslighting behaviour, the trauma bonding, the control, etc.), you don’t have to be an expert, so don’t go over board worrying about learning everything. The Forums of narcissistic abuse are very informative because victims share a lot of their experiences with other victims. You can bring this knowledge into the therapy room, and look at how you have been affected by it with the therapist.
2. I advise you strongly to find yourself a psychotherapist who is trained in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, (as most victims of narcissistic abuse suffer from PTSD). In order to survive a narcissist, the individual will have developed unconscious defense mechanisms. These wonderful defense mechanisms will have served the individual well, allowing them to survive the war zone they have been in. Some of these mechanisms are identified by the following behaviours (being too passive, being a pleaser, enabling, poor boundaries etc.). The problem is that these ways of behaving makes the individual attractive to all narcissists…….. and like a moth to a flame, the narcissist can spot their next victim almost immediately. This is why it is important to do therapy, to do your own recovery work, and to learn and understand what it is you may be doing that will attract other narcissists in the future……. otherwise you could be a sitting duck. Remember, narcissists are not always confined to romantic relationships, they can be friends, co-workers, bosses etc. That is why it is not unusual for a person to see that they keep attracting the same type of person to them time and time again.
3. Change your own behaviour so that you protect yourself from becoming re-victimized. Narcissists will not be attracted to people who have good boundaries, well, not for long anyway. People with good boundaries are less likely to settle for a co-dependent relationship where they give everything and get little in return. When you enter into a relationship with a narcissist this is exactly what they demand.
I hope this is of some help to you. Best of luck on your journey of discovery.
Hi Susie, You ask me how you can get this information across to your counsellor.
Why not tell him the truth. You have been doing your own research in order to understand the work you are uncovering together, and you came across the word Narcissism. When you read the various articles it led you to wonder if this is what had happened to you.
Your counsellor may or may not know about narcissistic abuse, most counsellors don’t really know much about it. But that need not be a problem. Use the technical terms you are coming across (gaslighting, co-dependency, Jackall & Hyde personalities, etc). You could say that
you have articles written by a psychotherapist who works in this area, and share the information with him. Remember, he does not need to know how to work with a narcissist, what is needed is that he understands the depth of abuse and suffering you have gone through with your narcissist.
It is important for you to discover the things that you did that attracted your narcissist to you (i.e. your passivity, your “pleasing” nature, your enabling, giving too much and asking for little back etc.). Narcissists do not pick just anybody for their victim. They want sweet, kind, gentle people who will put them first above everyone else…..someone who will make them feel “special”. At first the narcissist comes
across as a delight, they will even act in a very seductive way that makes them look sweet, kind,and gentle themselves. This is all a ploy to hook their victim. The victim really believes that they have meet their soul-mate, and they fall for all the illusions the narcissist spins in their web of deception. Once hooked, the victim is going to suffer, and at some stage they will find themselves all alone, sucked dry, feeling very confused and broken.
Many people have written to me asking this same question (because they knew that their counsellor did not fully understand what they have suffered). It is for that reason that I compiled the collection of articles in one ebook on my site. If you think it would be helpful, and that your counsellor would find the articles useful for working with you, you could either tell him about my site, or make him a present of the ebook ($7.00). You could then pick out the things that resonate with you…………. For example, if you are finding it impossible to let your narcissist go, you could discuss with your therapist the possibility that you may have trauma bonded with them. If you felt that you were loosing your mind, you could explore the Gaslighting Behaviour that happened in your relationship. You could also look at the different faces of your narcissistic abuser as they lead the relationship through different phases; The Idealization Stage, Devaluation Stage, and the Discard Stage.
It is important that you learn about yourself, how you lost yourself in the relationship, because you don’t want to find yourself repeating this again. Narcissists are attracted to those people who are already conditioned in the narcissists dance …… and by the sounds of it, you did dance the dance. If you are realizing that there has been more than one narcissist in your life, then it really is useful to find the first source, because that would have been the place where you would have used unconscious defense mechanisms in order to survive (especially if you were young). In my case it was a narcissistic brother whom I loved. The older he got the worse his behaviour became, he did a lot of damage before I ever worked out that he was suffering from a narcissistic personality disorder. Unfortunately I went on to attract similar behaviour from other narcissists, finally I asked what was the common dominator here? To my horror I found the answer was “ME!” That was the best question I ever asked in my life, because that set me on a journey to discover my behaviour that left me wide open to be abused. I must
admit I felt a bit of a fool to discover this, but it was a fascinating journey to discover and understand the unconscious defense mechanisms at work…… without them I would not have survived as well as I have. I wish you the best of luck on your journey of recovery, and remember, there is life after narcissism.
Hi Sparkster, Thank you for your kind words. Actually, I feel as if I know you already, we have communicated together before, it may
have been through Hub Page. Anyway, congratulation on writing your first EBook on the subject of Narcissism, because education is much needed, and who better to write on the subject than someone who has experienced it first hand.
I am struggling to find the time to write because I am so busy working with victims, and answering their emails is quite time consuming. At present I am about half way through writing my own EBook about narcissism. I am writing through a spiritual perspective, looking at different levels of consciousness, and how that is connected to human development. Our level of consciousness effects our level of empathy, so if the development is corrupted along the way, then this will effect how we relate to others…… this may also explain narcissism in relation to the whole spectrum of narcissism (the psychopothy scale). Best of luck with your EBook.
Hi Kirsti, I am so sorry to hear your story, unfortunately it is a common theme where the narcissist continues to exercise control where ever possible. Unfortunately the courts, doctors, solicitors, etc. don’t really understand what narcissism is, and the victimization that goes with this behaviour. The only real support seems to only come from people who have experienced and identified the behavior for themselves, nfortunately even many therapists don’t have a clue what they are dealing with, they think it is “domestic violence” the victim is talking about. Of course, it can be domestic violence, but with a very big + added.
It is a shock to discover that the person you loved may be a malignant narcissist, it takes a lot to get your head around that idea alone, and even worse to have to face the fact that they never really loved you in the way that you thought they did. Having a child together makes the whole experience even worse, because he will do his utmost to control you through your little boy, he knows that this emotionally hurt you to your core. Take care of yourself, connect yourself to a good support system of family and friends if you possibly can. Stop protecting him, or making excuses for him, let those close to you know about his behaviour towards you…… cover-ups don’t really work because others people just get tired of the conversation going round and round in circles.
Hello Deborah,
I am so sorry to hear of your narcissistic abuse. Right from the start of your life you were being conditioned to dance the narcissists dance, so it is no wonder you went on to marry such a man. One little consolation is that you managed to get away from him, otherwise your could have lost your life too. I can understand that you find it easier to be on your own, it is safer for you, but you must also be lonely. It is probably not so much that you have bad taste in men, I think it is more that you do not recognize narcissistic behaviour until you are already hooked. Narcissists are drawn to those people who have already been narcissistically conditioned to comply and be passive, give away all your power so that you become powerless.
There is life after narcissistic abuse, but it means doing plenty of research of the subject, and then looking at yourself to see your own behaviour (passivity, lack of boundaries, low self esteem, etc.). In order to claim back ones power and become empowered in a way where you can attract healthy men where you can enter into a partnership that is equal. The narcissist does not do “equal”, they have to be the dominant one in the relationship. Warmest regards to you and your daughter. Keep safe.
Hi Carol, Lovely to hear from you, but so sorry to hear of all your suffering as a result of narcissism. You say your new husband is the love of your life. I hope that he does not turn out the same, but you take care not to allow your past rejections to infect this relationship if you now have a good man to love you. Educate yourself as much as you can on the subject, and bring that information into the therapy room and discuss it with your therapist. Even if she does not know about narcissistic abuse, she can look it up for herself once you name it. In order to survive, victims build up unconscious defense mechanisms of their own (in their bid to stay safe), this would have served you well. However, you may need to explore these and see if your behaviour now needs to change (for your new relationship). Victims usually learn how to be too passive in their bid to avoid further rejection, also because of their abuse they need to establish healthier boundaries and find out who they really are and build up their self-esteem. All this work leads to a new empowerment and makes you less likely to attract further narcissists. They are attracted to victims who have already been conditioned to dance their dance. Best of luck to you in the future, at least you know what you were dealing with in the past, and you can heal that damage.
Hi Bill, Lovely to hear from you, thank you for the complement regarding my work. As you probably know, my site started out for other therapists to learn and grow in their knowledge about narcissistic personality disorder, and the effects of that behaviour on the victim. However, most visitors are victims, I get hundreds of emails from around the world, and their story is always the same. I do get visitors like yourself (therapists), but the numbers are quite small. So if you can, I would appreciate if you would let other therapists know about victims of NPD, and how they are likely to come through every therapists door.
Soon I hope to retire from client work, and then I will have the time to write books on the subject and run training programmes for therapists, but at present I am up to my gills working with victims in Ireland. All the time I am being asked to recommend therapists all around the world who understand this work…… and to be honest, I don’t know many who really do understand the insidious nature of narcissism, and the extent of the trauma they cause in the home, the workplace, to friends and society.
Best of luck in your sacred work.
Hi Mark, Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. Sadly, your story is something I often hear. It is so hard to work out what is happening when you are in a relationship with a narcissist. I apologise for how you were treated by my profession. Truth is they do not have a clue what they are dealing with when it comes to narcissistic abuse. This is not part of a therapists training while on a psychotherapy course. I never received any instruction about the “isms” of narcissistic abuse on any training course I attended.
That is what I am trying to address now in my articles on my site, but it is a slow process. My experiences with my personal therapists were the same, they were not able to name what had happened to me. I actually did a degree in psychology in order to get some answers to what happened, and also (more importantly) I wanted to understand my own behaviour of placating, pleasing etc. etc. but I got no answers there either. When I did eventually work out what was wrong for myself (using my lived and educational experiences) I was able to bring that knowledge into my therapy room. No client ever comes in saying “I am a victim of narcissistic abuse”, but it does not take long to identify it as their story unfolds…… always the story and outcomes are pretty much the same experience as yours and mine.
It seems that you have also educated yourself with the help of the internet, and have found good people to talk with. Sometimes people find it hard to talk to family or friends, because so often they cannot get the validation they need. The narcissist is such a good manipulator that many people do not see the abusive side of them. They are also good at discrediting their partners as being the one with the problem, and people tend to believe that, and don’t want to get involved. But armed with the knowledge that you have, if you still need some help, you can now bring your knowledge into the therapy room. Look for a therapist who is trained in Trauma Work, that is important. Once in the therapy room
you could name it as “narcissistic abuse”, talk about the Gaslighting behaviour and other madness you had to live with, (the constant attention seeking behaviour, the superiority, the rages etc). Even if the therapist does not know about narcissism, their knowledge of trauma work should make them effective for working with this form of abuse. Anyway, I hope you take all the time you need to recover. It does take some time, but the obsessing and pain does fade with time, and there is a life after narcissism.
Good afternoon everyone,
i have down days. his calls are non stop and so are the messages.. always blaming me for the divorce. he placed divorce proceedings on me after He battered me and in his world, after all the pleading his done for forgiveness i have no right to say no. I have to say yes..and because i dont, its my fault. i am the evil one, the destroyer. and even though i try to be upbeat and not let him get into my head, my soul..he does. and thats when my days are bad. all the good will and all pity go out the window..i wish this divorce was already done with so i dont ever have to see him again.
I am going to see my therapist tomorrow. the big question that i have for her is this..Why me? how did this happen to me? how could i be so blind? i am sure the signs were there, the red flags waving in the wind? how did i miss them and why?
I found your website trying to learn more about narcissistic traits. I suffer from OCD, depression, have occasional panic attacks. I read in your article that people with Narcissistic Victim Syndrome may suffer from all of the above. I am on Prozac which helps me with the depression and anxiety.
Recently I had a revelation that I am abused psychologically by my husband. It was as if I’ve been walking around the dark room, bumping against some objects getting hurt and then suddenly the light went on and I saw the whole picture.
I’m not sure that he is a narcissist but he is accusing me of beeing one. He is blaming me for all his problems. In fact he is blaming me for everything as if he could not take any responcibility when things go wrong. He plays the role of the victim: “I’ve done all this for you and you promised everything and did not deliver”. He is often iritated by small things I do not “do right” or forget. An attempt to discuss issues we don’t fully on is concidered by him as me trying to control him.
Please let me know if those could be narcissistc traits. I am asking because I know that NPD has poor prognosis. I feel at this moment I have to save myself. I’ve tried to make my husband happy but I do not think being submissive is the way to go.
Thank you very much