Christine’s Chat Corner
A place where real questions get answered.
Christine Louis de Canonville is a psychotherapist who worked for many years with victims of narcissistic abuse. The questions discussed in her “Chat Corner” are real questions, they have come from the many victims that write to her on her blog daily.
THE ONE THING THAT MAKES A NARCISSIST HAPPY IS TO NEVER HAVE TO SAY “GOODBYE” TO THEIR SOURCE OF NARCISSISTIC SUPPLY…. ARE YOU STILL PROVIDING THEM WITH OXYGEN?
Question:
So now, 20 years’ post-divorce, I’ve gone on with my life and am reasonably happy, until I’m required to be around him for some family gathering and then the past hurt comes rushing in and I’m thrown right back in time.
One huge difficulty is that since my children didn’t see their father treat me badly, they can’t really understand WHY I don’t want to be in the same room with him. It’s like I’m being the bad guy!
I’m told I need to “get over it”!. I’ve shared some things with them to help them have some understanding, but they don’t want to hear anything negative about him and feel that our issues are our issues. AND, because I am this big empath, I STILL want my children to think well of their father!!. I see no answer to this dilemma other than my staying home and missing out on that time with the family, and that doesn’t please me either.
I’ve missed the family gathering at Christmas and Easter because he and Wife #3 were there. She and I get along fine and I think if it weren’t for him, she and I could have been good friends. I am concerned for her well-being because she is the current Empath, but there I go, being too empathetic again! Any helpful thoughts??!
Answer:
The one thing that makes a narcissist happy is to never say “goodbye” to their source of narcissistic supply. This husband mentioned above is on his 3rd marriage, and still, his first wife is spending a lot of energy thinking about him, fretting, and avoiding him. This must make him a very happy man, especially as he has an audience to witness her distress. Many partners of narcissistic abuse find themselves in this predicament, very often because of the children.
Even though the relationship with the ex-narcissistic spouse has long ended, the empathic victim can still be thrown into such terrible anxiety with the thought of attending family events where the narcissist is likely to attend. The victim finds themselves ruminating for days or weeks ahead of the event, their thinking is so conflicted. On the one hand, they do not want to meet the ex-narcissist, but on the other hand, they do not want to miss out on the event with people they love either. Their cognitive dissonance is triggered, “Will I, won’t I?” They do not want to let everybody down, especially their children. Or they may not want to offend the host who has gone to so much trouble preparing for the day. But at the same time, they also do not want the narcissist to get the satisfaction of winning anything over them if they don’t attend.
Entanglement is the end game of the narcissist, and after the discard phase has finally taken place, the narcissist has other techniques to keep you in the loop with them. Although you may not have realised it, once you allowed them into your life, you inadvertently signed a psychological contract that tied you to them for life. So, any time the narcissist has any need for further supply, they use the *”hoover manoeuvre” to suck you back into their life again for their entertainment. Getting attention from you keeps the game in play, and it does not matter whether the attention is positive or negative. One is as good as the other to the pathological narcissist.
Victims make the mistake of thinking that when the narcissist engages in “hoovering” behaviour, it is because they miss them, and want them back in their life. But that is not always the case, what they are looking for is to suck more superior oxygen from you, and go on a fact-finding mission to find out what you are doing. Information is power to the narcissist, and once they satisfy their curiosity they will leave you alone for some time.
How you respond to the hoover brings its own reward to the narcissist. For example, if you are nice to them they will want that attention again. If you lashed out and wounded them, they will want to get some revenge for gaining the feeling of one-upmanship over you once again.
Sometimes the narcissist does not need to do an obvious hoover, like calling you, texting you, or turning up unexpectedly at your local coffee shop when you least expect them. Sometimes all they have to do is to wait until the next family event comes along (i.e. Christmas, Easter, children’s birthdays, funerals, etc.) and sit back and wait to see what happens next.
If the victim has remained single, the narcissist will hoover in a benign way. They will convince themselves that the victim is still in love with them, and for that reason, they have not been able to move on. This will fill them with confidence, and they will find a way to get mileage out of the situation. For example, they may parade their newest conquest, and show the ex-victim how happy they are now with someone else.
They are taunting you, letting you know what you have missed if you had played your card right you could be with me now. But others will be unaware of the cat and mouse game that is being played out. All they will see is the narcissist being friendly and polite to you.
Even though you may choose not to make any comment, it is possible that your annoyance at the game will show on your face, and you will be perceived as being the difficult one by family members. They may even put your hostility down to personal jealousy seeing your ex happy with his new partner. Everybody wants to play happy families, and they do not appreciate your behaviour at these events when you find yourself responding to your unconscious triggers. The narcissist does not have to do anything but look bewildered or embarrassed by your behaviour. This is their way to manipulate others to come to their defence, and before long the victim will feel a coldness from other family members that lets the victim know that they are not really welcome at these family events.
Whether you attend the event or not, either way, the ex-narcissist will extract pleasure in knowing your discomfort at the rejection of others…… this provides them with the oxygen they crave. They come out smelling of roses while the victim is rejected by the manipulated proxy hoover.
*The term “Hoover manoeuvre” is a metaphor taken from the famous brand of vacuum cleaner known for its powerful suction, and is used to explain how the abusive narcissist asserts their right to suck the victim back into the relationship for further oxygen.
Her books, “The Three Faces of Evil: Unmasking the Full Spectrum of Narcissistic Abuse” and “When Shame Begets Shame: How Narcissists hurt and shame their victims” set out to to help those who have been affected by a narcissist and also to address the shortfalls in a therapist’s education, so that they become better equipped to work with survivors of narcissistic abuse.Much of her knowledge has come from her post-grad studies in Criminology and Forensic Psychology, and it is through these disciplines that she has gained her understanding of “The Dark Triad”, (Narcissism, Machiavellianism and Psychopathy).
These three faces of evil are vital information for understanding the full spectrum of narcissistic abuse and the dire effects on the victims.It is her vision that narcissistic abuse becomes part of the curriculum of all Mental Health clinicians.
Christine,
It seems as if all we co-narcissists share exactly the same agony when we have made the courageous act to separate. The narcissist is always the “fun”, charming, popular person in social settings, and they for some reason court our families post separation, such as our parents (probably searching for the love they never received in their own families). Our families seem to be important to them, as one person says, they do try to take over family events, trying to look like the good guy. My ex-partner was obsequious to my mother who adored him.
After all the years of abuse, in my case both physical and mental, I had to get barring orders for my safety, this seems such an obscene continuation of the abuse.
But I have good news for my fellow ex-co-narcissists. In the very long term, the truth ALWAYS gets out. Because his facade eventually drops. The narcissist can be charming, funny, sociable, but he/she does not possess the marvellous gift of true empathy.
In the long run, they cannot make family members feel good about themselves in a deep, caring way. They cannot pretend to really care about anybody for long. Their selfishness and lack of eventually surfaces. Your family eventually see through them. What you have to remember in the short term is to always preserve your integrity, and behave with a high standard of dignity, no matter how badly you feel you are perceived by bystanders. Because how you rate and honour yourself is actually all that matters. It is the best way to heal yourself.
The long term cure for the survivors is to not pay attention to the narcissist, even to the lies he tells others about you. Do not descend to his level. After our separation, (wherein I endured extreme bullying) one influential woman whom I did not know, asked me at a social occasion if I was really as bad as I had been painted. It turns out he had told many people that I had had affairs with many important men (he wanted people to know that HIS ex-wife would not have affairs with ordinary adulterors!!). Though shocked, I quietly said that he just could not bear anybody in our social circle to think that our separation had anything at all to do with him, his behaviour, or our relationship, so he had to invent ridiculous lies. The calmness with which I said this convinced this lady, as a great many people in her influential circle were narcisstic too, and the idea of his need to lie rang true with her. I did not have to disparage him to this lady, I kept my dignity. It is the best way. The truth will out. You can be there to provide empathy and support to others he damages in his wake, usually your children, but others too. You will be loved for yourself, because you care for others. Nothing to do with him. Nothing to do with revenge.
But there is a long period of agony, where you suffer terribly from the perceived injustice meted out, as he manipulates your friends, your family. Don’t worry, it will not last for ever. But it helps enormously if you know, and keep telling yourself you are a good person, and get on with your life. Leave him to his miserable self. All things pass. The ducks really do come home to roost in the end, without you doing anything but be a good person. Have faith, and know that people will see the real you, which is more important than their view of him. It is good news in the end.
‘Shame’ – and the al pervasive feeling of ‘imperfection’ in some children is surely important! You sutudy the more classical form of narcissisme in this case. While other auteurs study more the by temperement (temper = emotional héritage) as the course of ‘manipulation’ by the absence of empathy and conscience as the mean reasons of the emotional abuse of others (as children and partners). They think thus more on the malignant and the sociopathic/psychopathic forms of narcissism. While you study more the classical narcissism, that results from the miséducation by a narcissistic mother, who does not look for her children, especially those with a strong ‘temper’. Those children will become extremely ‘parentised’, and have to care for the mother instead that their mother will be take care for them. This results in an overtly responsabilisation from this children, who cannot be honnest, because they have not the age for it, and so they wille play a role (a semblance) of beïng a perfect child. And they wille even be guilty and ashamed when they connaot do what is espected from them. The develop a terrible sense of ‘impotency’ and ‘incapacity’ to realise what is espected from them. This is a humiliating and emptiïng experience for the child. In such education is no fairness neither appreciation from the parents. So the child will stay in, and no develop any further than, the primary proces of defense. he child will feel that the separation/castration is ‘reel’ ans no ‘symbolic-imaginaire. It will not develop any reel image of his belonging to the humain espace, nor developp feeling of an own identity, because no marks have been given ‘by any mother or remplacdent’. We have to remember always what Freud sayd about the prolonged time of dependence of he human child because it came into the world without instincts like animals who knows what to do.
Hello: My question here is to try to clarify the idea of “sucking oxygen.” We all know that everyone breathes freely on their own, so I am seeking a more concrete and accurate description, instead of a metaphor, of what they do in clinical mental health terms. Is this metaphor of air referring to the entire catalog of ongoing needs they have to understand and control another human being, a poor excuse to make up for the lack of love and understanding they received as a child? Thanks.
Dear Eleanor, I rather doubt it. The narcissists in my life (there have been several) seem to have one thing in common: they are not sentimental about material items, let alone human beings. Of course mine claimed they treasured certain things but only in the context of using those things to gain status or as narcissistic supply in some way. Examples: my stepmother reveres this Gorham crystal nativity set (she spent money she didn’t have to buy it, to impress everybody). One day out of the blue she says to me, “I think I’m going to give this to A (my daughter, whom she says she’s VERY proud of-meaning NOT me).” Never mind she’s only inserted A into her life in the last 10 years & I’ve been around her for 60, helping her & being her whipping girl. We were going through some photos from when my stepmother was in her 20’s & she looked like she was enjoying herself. I said that it looked as though she had a happy youth & she said, “Not really.” Maybe having a “happy memory” means a narcissist has to admit to being “real” sometimes, having feelings like love, remorse, & sorrow-being like most humans, being less than perfect. In another photo she was at a party with a man, again looking as if she was having fun, & she said, “That’s so in so, the love of my life!” That stung because my father was her first & only marriage. But it was meant to sting me because that’s what narcissists do.
Dear Charlie, I definitely don’t have the knowledge or expertise of a professional like Christine. The day I found her website is a day I will never forget, as her insights have given me priceless knowledge & support!
I am merely responding to your email to Christine because there are some similarities in what we have gone through as far as family is concerned. Silly me, I thought being abused for nearly 40 years & having the will & strength to break away was the hard part. Wow, did I get a pie in the face! The divorce took 4 years & $62,000 in legal fees & those are just mine! He immediately courted my elderly Mother (99 years old) & my 2 sisters who all live in the city I lived in with him for 30 years. I now live 1400 miles away from them so they were very easily courted. Soon, I noticed some distance coming between my sisters & I. Then the complete banishment by one & evasiveness from the other. The one who treats me as if I no longer exist, actually was privy to some of the abuse & had even seen some episodes first hand! Yet she is the one who cut all ties. The only reason I am explaining this is because the pain & abuse never stops. The only thing we can do is to manage how we react to it & often, we feel powerless to find the least painful way to proceed.
When we feel emotional pain, we can’t just wish it away—we FEEL it. We are the one’s who seem to be caught in continued abuse & the circle of abusers just keeps getting bigger, even with distance & NO CONTACT. They still manage to find a way to slither in & throw some poison darts.
The best way to manage this for ME, is with visits to a very supportive therapist & making new & supportive women friends where I live now. I do have the benefit of having 2 marvelous adult children who are very supportive of me & can see right through their N father’s charming behavior. They are virtually estranged from him & he created that relationship entirely on his own. The first 2 things I mentioned can take quite a lot of time. When we first leave the Narc, we are in crisis & we need all that support NOW! So, I recommend finding the therapist first, then cultivating new, quality friendships. Keep in mind the question that Christine asks us. Is it better to be lonely (a temporary feeling) or to be abused? New friends will come, we just have to have patience. Love yourself. Reach out to the people who love & support you, even if it’s only 1 or 2 at first. Trust in time, learn to trust yourself again.
I am right now embroiled in the holiday situation & am prepared for sabatoge in one form or another. Narc’s love this time of year as it’s a time to gain fresh, new O2 for their supply. Be mindful, try to be prepared & assume something evil will come your way. Proactively put up your best defenses & try to protect yourself best you can. Everything is temporary, everything.
I wish myself & all of you who are suffering from Narcissistic abuse, the happiest of holidays possible
Ellie
Well said Joyce! We all have experienced the after effects of being with an NPD person. Trying to get beyond all the carnage they do AFTER the.divorce can be so very painful for the target.I am fortunate in that both my lovely children can see right through his Dr. Perfect persona; they lived it & supported me all the way &have very little to do with their father. They have refused to meet his live-in girlfriend, he refused to come to his only daughters’ wedding because he was told not to bring her so needless to say, it was a magical occasion with no stress!
He, like so many NPD’s before him, has courted my family to the point of my losing a sister I was very close with for 65 years of my life. My incredible Mother is 99 years old & he visits her regularly WITH the new girlfriend! I refuse to let him know how painful this is to me as I have cut all contact with him but that doesn’t keep him from subtle fact finding expeditions.
My lovely Mother has been very ill & has been hospitalized for 5 weeks. Most of my family & my Mom live in the same city. I live 1400 miles away, where I had to go to get away from him. He is in the middle of everything, helping my sisters take care of her. I am at the other end of the country & it costs me a small fortune to get down to see my Mom as neither sister will let me stay with them (they are both single, live alone & own 3 bedroom homes) so I have to pay for lodging & car rental along with the $950 plane ticket. I had planned to have Thanksgiving with my Mom for the first time in 5 years. The rest of my family, hosted by my ex & his girlfriend, have had every holiday with her for the last 5 years. As soon as he found out, I assume thru one of my sisters, that I was going to fly down there, he immediately planned a big Thanksgiving at his home (the home we shared for 25 years) along with his girlfriend, just to sabotage my desire to be with my Mother. Of course my Mom will be unable to go to his house now, even if she is out of the hospital. I refused to allow him to again take control of me & got a plane ticket for after Thanksgiving & will be spending a few quiet days with my Mother no matter where she is.
Once my Mom passes, he will attempt to be the center of attention planning the service, giving the eulogy, etc. I will have to go to my own Mother’s memorial service & watch him take over & think he was the most important person in her life. My children & I know differently however, & we can see right through him. I know it will be awful but I plan to do my best to ignore him, pretend that he is not there & take the support of my children & whoever else might be there to help me get through this. I do have a wonderful brother who sees thru my ex & is a great source of support. He will also be there after Thanksgiving to support me, see my Mom & be a buffer for me should my ex attempt to pull an unexpected stunt, which he undoubtedly will.
Wish me luck & protection! I will need all the help I can get!
God Bless, Ellie
The letter at the top of the page is mine and I thank you so much for your thoughts and the comments others have left. The holiday season is again approaching and I’m not quite sure about how I should react when I have to be around him at family holiday events. Actually, it isn’t just at holiday dinners, etc. Almost year round I try to attend all my grandchildren’s sporting events. He, also attends most of the games. So that means we are at the same place way too often. The games aren’t a big problem because there are lots of space and many people there and we are, after all, there to see the game and support the children, so I can rather easily avoid him. BUT, it’s those family only gatherings, that continue to be difficult. And I certainly do not want to give him oxygen. He makes a point about coming up to me to say hello, usually gives me a Christmas gift, making sure everyone sees how “kind” he is to me. I feel as though I can safely respond to his hello and say thank you for the gift, but is that giving him oxygen? It seems as though no matter how I behave, he is probably getting something from me that I don’t want to give. If I ignore him, I seem bitter or mean-spirited and he seems the hero. How should I react?
Also, on a different vein, one of my sons, (the one who initially recognized NPD in his father, researched the disorder and in his research found you) has two sons. The elder is 15. My son feels that this child, from the age of 3, has exhibited signs of NPD. It’s difficult for me to agree, since I live in America and they live in Europe. I do visit, usually every year for 2-4 weeks and I find him to be mostly charming and sweet, but my son tells me that “he is being on his best behavior” during my visit. I want to think that some of what he is exhibiting is typical 15 year old boy behavior, wanting to do what he wants to do, sulking if he doesn’t get his way, etc.
I’ve looked through the lists of your posts, but haven’t seen where you discuss the young “budding” narcissist and how parents can best guide them. AND since his paternal grandfather is NPD, what about the genetic factor? I do know that both parents could not be more loving and nurturing and both boys are very close. The extended family is truly very loving and kind, positive and supporting. Again, your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
My question is this?. Since you have outlined two ways the narrassistic person tries to manoeuvre themselves either positive and or negative how do you protect yourself when you visit and you want to maintain your proper strategy in right context of your visit?.
It is one thing to read about what they can or cannot do, but proper action is required in our part.
Thanks for commenting
How then is the best way to handle this situation without causing oneself harm? And ideally coming out ahead!
So many people say the same thing and it is so true! The narcissist is SO good at what he/she does that to others, it looks like the problem lies with the “victim.” They cannot see the abuse, usually only emotional and verbal, that is endured. If the victim, as I, is a woman, she really doesn’t want her children to see all the nuances and abuses she deals with everyday, and really, only she can know it. The sad thing is (and it is true in my case and in the woman who just wrote in above), it seems like the narcissist comes out “on top” and the victim becomes the “bad guy.” This has happened in my case and it is so hard to live with. I am sorry for the woman above and know what she experiences daily. I too go through this.
Q. Do narcissists have fond memories like we do?
My husband of 16 years, now ex, is doing exactly what you’ve described. While I’m doing everything I can to avoid him, he’s going over to my mother’s house for chats and the like. Recently he helped my sister move some lumber in his vehicle. “He’s such a nice, easy going guy!” Now that he has a girlfriend, he’s bringing her to my house to sit in the car while he collects our co-parented dog. He know it makes me uncomfortable and even asked if I wanted to come out to the car to meet her. I am tired of all this because it causes me to question letting go of him. The years of raging at me and threatening divorce at any small infraction of mine are reminders that I did the right thing. Thank you Christine for confirming that I did the right thing!
In my work I have come across situations like the one described above. In your experience what steps have you found helpful for a person trying to break the chain that binds them to the narcissist?
All good wishes,
Catherine
Well done Christine!
Unfortunately, once we’ve fallen into the path of a narcissist, and particularly when children are involved, there is no such thing as extraction. They will always be the mother or father of our child. They are a permanent member of our family.
As long as our child has two parents, they will always be one of them.
Extracting ourselves from the game of a narcissist co-parent can only be accomplished by our personal mindset. Once we can reach the “who gives a damn what they think” level of separation, we can experience peace.
There is nothing, except a frontal lobotomy, that can ever make us forget what we experienced. We should not feel compelled to apologize for it. And that would be the first thing I’d tell those kids if I were her. “It’s absurd for you to expect me to forget what he did.”
The second thing I’d recommend for her to do is to get a good book….. like yours…. that explains this type of personality, and the damage these people do, and hand it to her kids. And she could include a note that says something like this….. “You are taking sides. It’s not okay. I’m giving you this book so you can understand. I don’t ask you to hate him. I don’t expect you to hate him, but don’t disrespect me by trying to dismiss, invalidate of minimize what he did to me. I am a victor, not a victim. I recovered in spite of what he did. But it is irrational for you to think that I ever could forget or ignore who he is.
So, what does one do? I know letting someone cross an emotional boundary is a no no but I can imagine going to the gathering and being short, brief in your hello to him and his spouse and then moving on to everyone else…
My daughter is only 3 but I can see this happening in the future. I have some ideas but would like to hear what you suggest.
I just wouldn’t be there…my peace of mind is too important. Preserve a sense of mystery about your new found freedom and leave these occasions to the Narcissist and his flying monkeys. Unless you can rent a male model to knock their eyes out!!! 😆… but that would be all too churdish now, wouldn’t it!😇
so true! such a powerful thing is to educate ourselves about all this! rewash our brains with the truth which is the science behind this sick behavior, as it gets us out of our manipulated minds and allows us to go higher, helping us detach from the Narcissist. Then, No contact is the next priority to achieve. So happy to be free! thank you Christine for sharing your knowledge.
Interesting about the hoover manoeuvre.
Hi Christine,
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I feel sane again, as I always do after reading
your articles! I very much appreciate you and try to pay forward the insights I have received from your work. You are doing such good work in the world!
Gratefully yours,
Maria-Christina
Hi Christine, thanks once again for your email. I love how you educate us and we can learn not to fall for their charm. Thank you for making me understand they will never love me no matter how it has hurt how many wasted year I spent on this man. He will not give me divorce, and we go through battles making me the ugly person. We don’t have a life together, it hurts that I’m left out of family function and kids don’t understand when I am hurt and sad. My wish is to move away now that I raised all my kids I cry to God as I don’t find help explaining my situation to anyone. Thank you so much for your emails
Dear Christine
I so appreciate your professional, much experienced ability, to give me added energy to cope with the difficulty of having left, such a spouse, after 45 years of marriage.
You,have assisted me in regaining self confidence and peace of mind. Thank you so much.
Yes, life can be lonely, but as you, very wisely said to me, ” Which is better, being lonely or being abused.
You have guided me to a new life of peace, Christine, for which I am most grateful.
Kathleen
Dear Christine
I so appreciate your professional, much experienced ability, to give me added energy to cope with the difficulty of having left, such a spouse, after 45 years of marriage.
You, Christine have assisted me to regain self confidence and peace of mind. Thank you so much.
Yes, life can be lonely, but as you, very wisely said to me, ” Which is better, being lonely or being abused.
You have guided me to a new life of peace, Christine, for which I am most grateful.
Kathleen
yes these events can b problematic even among friends when no family is involved.
My friend the narcissist shares several “innocent” mutual friends with me. I havent told these innocents any details about my probs with her narcissistic behaviour….so people may think my none attendance at funerals/birthday get togethers.is simply rudeness…..I try to make up reasonable excuses for not attending these events as I dont like not being truthful….but the thought of meeting her and her allies (flying momkeys) all together in one place, is a terrifying trigger for me, causing intense anxiety.
These events would normally be something I would enjoy….meeting friends and socialising….so going no contact has caused a massive problem and caused me to dread so much in my future…it is v unfair… but within a family this must be even more traumatic…I really feel for families with this problem…Christines answer makes so much sense…we will be losers if we go and also if we dont go to these get togethers!!!!
I agree and understand how the narcissist feels in control and empowered, knowing he has caused some discomfort or pain to his victim. But, how does the victim reverse this? How does the victim stop being victimized by the narc? How can the victim make the narc feel uncomfortable? How does the victim let the narc know he can no longer hurt them? How can the victim stop being the “supply”, and make the narc feel invisible? I find my best tactic is just to ignore him and pretend he does not exist. I’m hoping that makes him feel worthless. What is the best way to act?
Thank you Christine for explaining this. I have been puzzled by man who said he wants a divorce, after 35 years married, left for 7 months yet still didn’t file. Soon as I did, he immediately counter sued and created numerous justifiable causes for his departure.
However he has blocked every move I have made trying to move out and on w my life.
Cuts the grass, occasionally leave $ in mailbox to help me cover bills, and is very calculated and controlled in all he does. Now I see what he gains by keeping in contact this way. He loves keeping me and others baffled and focused on his latest “quirky” behavior.
He claims to be a very private person but inside he has an unsatiable appetite to be the center of someone’s attention. The more pipeines of narcissistic supply, the better.
Please teach me and others how to turn off the supply faucet we allow them to keep drinking from.
Hwf
I, too, have endured the ‘family’ special occasions. I have chosen to not remarry and my ex is on his third wife. This last Christmas, I looked around and it dawned on me that being present was not healthy for me. I told everyone goodbye and left early. I haven’t been to a family event since. I choose to visit with the individuals I want to see (children and grandchildren) on an individual basis and not in a group. It’s been very liberating in that I don’t have the pre-event anxiety nor the post-event anxiety.
Also, my son married a narcissist and I’ve recognized her manipulation of me and I just don’t play. I made my feelings known to my son prior to the wedding (which was rushed). It’s hurtful that he chooses not to see me because he might hurt her feelings. But he knows I’m here when he wakes up!
I choose to live my life and let them live theirs. It’s taken me 12 years to get to this place and I’m not entirely recovered, but I’m making progress!
Thanks, Christine!!
Christine,
I feel like you really just teased an answer here and did not answer the question. I feel exactly the same way as the scenario you described – I am 3 years out from being discarded by my narc ex-wife after 20 years of marriage along with over 2 decades of emotional abuse that I just took.
I have gone basically as no contact as I can get with her even though we share 3 children. She and her boyfriend (the man she discarded me for and my former neighbor and friend) have resurfaced from the shadows and now show their faces and parade their relationship at our kids events.
How do you ever move on when you see the person that abused you for years and then discarded you like you were nothing, and then has the audacity to manipulate your children against you? I have held my head how, and for the most part, she has been rejected by our community and my kids understand why I cannot have a relationship with her. But still, 3 years out, when I see her publicly I am a mess for weeks afterwards. I see her face and then remember a time when she abused me and I did nothing or thought how I could change her mind if I just behaved better – did not act stupid like she said I was.
I realize I am so much better off than I was with her. I am happy. I love my kids and I know they love me. I have great friends and family and coworkers; however, I cannot move past this pain of when I see her. It is like a groundhog day of the abuse, the way she made me hate myself when I should have loved myself, the way I feel of never wanting another romantic relationship because of the fear of being abused again.
Dear Christine,
Could you explain how the proxy Hoover maneuver happens on the proxy end? I’ve experienced this with MY own family fighting with me, judging me, and causing me to feel unwelcome at family events due to my unhappiness with my husband and my want of a divorce. I’m so hurt and angry. How could they choose him over their own blood relative? (They say their not choosing sides; they just like him.). We have no children (he didn’t want any but everyone thinks it’s my fault there are no children) so it’s my parents, my brother, my aunts and uncles, my grandparents. I just don’t understand how they’ve fallen for this manipulative tactic. I know he’s manipulating them with his sorrowful words of how much he loves me, how he’s messed up so many times in the marriage, and how he just wants a chance to make things right for the past seven years and he can’t blame me for wanting a divorce. They feel sorry for him.
I am having a hard time feeling compassion and empathy for my family’s poor judgement. I cannot put myself in their shoes, so to speak, since I respect the rights of others and I appreciate consequences so while I may not like the change and dissappointment of a couple breaking up or I may feel sorry for the person that admits they messed up, I respect and understand it’s their decision to divorce or not and my responsibility to accept the decision and not interfere.
It seems selfish and I just don’t understand. I know he appears charming and fun and I know they don’t believe that he different at home. I just don’t understand why they choose not to believe me. This has caused a huge rift with my family and I’ve not spoken with my parents for two years over their defense of him (and their attacks on me in order to defend him) while I deal with his ‘support’ of me while I go through this ‘difficult’ time. What a mess and what a nightmare.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Charlie