However DSM-IV has not written anything about the effects on those who live or work with the narcissist’s torturous behaviours, and the consequences of that behaviour on the mental health of the victim. Thanks to the dedicated work of many psychotherapists, it has become clear that a set of detectable characteristics occur when working with victims of narcissistic abuse. The good news is that American therapists are calling for the recognition of this syndrome to be included in the next Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-V, to be published in 2013), in the hope that all therapists will be given standard guidelines for formulating a way of working with this syndrome.
First, What do we mean by “Syndrome”?
The word “syndrome” comes from the Greek “syn”, which means together, and “dramein”, which means to run. So a syndrome is a set of signs and symptoms that tend to run together in a cluster that can be recognized as causing a physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse. In order to be able to diagnose a client suffering with Narcissistic Victim Syndrome, the therapist needs to be able to gather together the signs and symptoms and access the client’s psychological make-up as their story unfolds. That way they will be in a position to know if the person is suffering from Narcissistic Victim Syndrome, or a lesser form of abuse on their mental well-being.
Do therapists know enough about the effects of Narcissism on the Victim?
Speaking for psychotherapists in Ireland, I can confidently say “definitely not”. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is predominately the domain of psychiatrists, psychologists, and the mental health services; so naturally, rarely would a diagnosed narcissist be consciously referred to a psychotherapist outside of the Mental Health Services. Naturally, as a consequence, the mental health services only concentrated on the vulnerability and treatment of the narcissistic patient in their care, their priority is not the victim; unless the victim ends up in psychiatric care themselves somewhere down the line at a later date.
Victims are more likely to present themselves in counselling or psychotherapy, not because they know that they may be suffering from NVS, but because they are not coping with their lives. I have spoken to many other psychotherapists, and although they know of narcissism, none feel that they have been sufficiently trained for recognizing
narcissistic behaviour and its effects on victims, let alone work with Narcissistic Victim Syndrome. Because most Irish psychotherapy courses do little or no training in this area, and the fact that little or nothing has been written in the medical literature regarding the victims of narcissistic abuse, it is my observation that, the majority of therapists, through no fault of their own, are ill equipped to work with clients with this syndrome. If you read any of the Support Forums for survivors of narcissistic abuse, you will constantly hear them say that their therapists did not understand the depth of suffering they had been subjected to, and that the term “narcissistic abuse” had rarely been mentioned to them.
Understanding Narcissistic Victim Syndrome (NVS) first requires an understanding of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD):
In order to be an effective therapist in the area of narcissistic victim abuse, it is vital to understand all that you can about the spectrum of narcissistic behaviour. The spectrum of narcissism exists on a continuum, from healthy narcissism, to unhealthy traits, and all the way to pathological Narcissistic Personality Disorder. By the way, the narcissist does not have to display all of the traits associated with the full blown pathological stage of narcissism in order to do untold damage to their victims. For that reason, therapists need to familiarize themselves about narcissistic traits and the relationship dynamics between the narcissist and their victim. I am talking about the narcissists overwhelming need for entitlement, control, power, grandiosity and specialness, and how they use these traits to keep their omnipotent fantasies and their vulnerable ego intact.
Due to their own lack of receiving reasonably attuned care-giving as a child (whether it was being under protected or over protected), the narcissist does not develop the authentic “True Self” that is necessary for confident living. A disregard of the child’s basic needs disturbs their development of self-esteem and the ability to function effectively. In order to protect themselves, they invest a lot of energy building up defenses. One of those defenses is to develop a “False Self”; which is a mask of behaviour that allows them to put on a show of being real in public. However, this pretense leaves the narcissist constantly guarding themselves from being “found out”, making them overly sensitive to narcissistic injury. Narcissistic injury is any perceived threat (real or imagined) to the narcissist’s self-esteem or self-worth. So in order to maintain their illusion and protect their false self from any fluctuations of a disappointed ego-ideal, the narcissist demands that they receive perfect mirroring, stroking, and responses from their victims; this attention is known as narcissistic supply.
What is Narcissistic Supply?
Narcissistic supply is anything in fact that shields the narcissist from feeling a sense of shame or abandonment, and this is an integral part of narcissism. The narcissist needs narcissistic supply in order to preserve their fragile ego, and this can be provided by two distinct sources:-
- Primary Narcissistic Supply provides all of the attention that the narcissist addict craves. The nature of the attention can be experienced in either a public form (such as fame, celebrity, notoriety, or infamy etc.), or in a private form (such as admiration, flattery, acclaim, fear, repulsion etc.).
- Secondary Narcissistic Supply alludes to those people or things that provide supply on a regular basis (such as a spouse, children, friends, colleagues, partners, clients, etc.). This latter form of supply allows the narcissist to lead a more normal existence, it provides them with pride, financial safety, social distinction and the alliance that they need.
However, narcissistic supply is not confined to people only, it can be applied to any inanimate object that has the ability to attract attention and admiration to the narcissist, (for example, a flash car, property, clothes, being a member of a church, cult, club, or a business). In short, anything that acts as status symbols for the narcissist is “narcissistic supply”.
The therapist will also need to know how these behaviours go hand-in-hand with the obsessive multi-addictions of the narcissist. Obsessed by the illusion of a False Self, and an inflated sense of their own superiority, power, and control, the narcissist renders himself susceptible to all sorts of obsessions, compulsions, and addictions; such as, addiction to Narcissistic Supply; to Grandiosity; to Control, to Power; to Rage; to Perfectionism; to Attention; to Fame etc. Without a comprehensive knowledge of narcissism, a therapist has no way of understanding the devastating effects of the narcissistic abuse on the victim they are treating, effects that are so crippling that they can result in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome.
To-day I do a great deal of work in this area, and my mission is to teach other therapists all that I have learned, so that they too can become more effective in working in the area of this form of abuse, which is very much on the increase. My intention is not to “bad mouth” those who are suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, on the contrary, I believe that they are also victims of abuse somewhere in their past, and they too suffer greatly on a daily basis. What I hope is that my study will allow for more compassion towards both the narcissist and the victim, and provide therapists with insights for a better way of recognizing and working with narcissistic abuse in the therapeutic process.
What is Narcissistic Victim Syndrome?
First, what is the definition of the word “Victim”? – “A victim is a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action”. So I think we can safely say (using this definition), that any person who has experienced narcissistic abuse has been harmed, injured, and in some cases, even killed as result of the narcissists behaviour, then they are indeed victims.
When working with individuals who are displaying symptoms of narcissistic victim syndrome, the thing that I notice most of all is that the person feels so torn because they don’t understand what has happened to them. Before they can begin to put themselves back together, I believe that it is vital that the therapist must, through the process of the therapeutic work in progress, educate the individual in the area of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (the What, the When, the How, and the Why of the abuse etc) so that they can begin to make sense of what was really happening as their story unfolds. Without such information it is virtually impossible to build up their self-esteem to healthy levels, thus leaving them vulnerable to further re-victimization, and future entrapment with other narcissists.
Once a person has become a victim of a narcissist (whether it happened in childhood or later on in life), the victims are already unconsciously primed to enter the narcissist’s “convoluted dance” that opens them up to further abuse. It is necessary for the therapist to gently shine a light on what they are doing in the dance that makes them a victim. Once again, a “Narcissistic Victim” is any person who is harmed, injured or killed by a person who displays pathological narcissism (which can occur on a spectrum of severity).
The victim needs to understand that this “dance” of codependency requires two people: the pleaser/fixer (victim), and the taker/controller (narcissist/addict), together both partners dance beautifully in perfect step, and the madness begins. The consequences for the victim not understanding the intricacy of the dance, is that, no matter how often they try to avoid “unhealthy” partners, they will find themselves habitually returning to the same dance floor; the only thing that will change is that they will find themselves dancing to a different tune, but always the personality of the dance partner remains the same.
Therapists need to be seriously aware that narcissism is a very complex disorder that creates a lot of suffering, both to the person who has the disorder, and to those people who have to live with the disordered narcissistic behavior on a daily basis. When I speak of narcissistic abuse, (abuse that can lead to Narcissistic Victim Syndrome), I am speaking about a form of abuse that is very insidious. What I mean by insidious is that the abuse is covert, cunning and often indirect. This form of abuse is often carried out in a subtle and clandestine manner, because narcissists go to great pains to avoid being observed publicly as being abusive. This Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde behaviour of the narcissist (loving one minute and totally enraged the next) can inflict great harm on the victim. Understandably, the fear, distress, confusion, inner turmoil, and chaos that they experience leaves them “walking on eggshells” in order to avoid further conflict with the narcissist. The effect on the victim over time can be very crippling indeed. I liken narcissism to a parasitic worm that manages to penetrate under the skin, where it is out of the sight of witnessing eyes, but is free to injure or consume its host slowly, leaving trauma or disease in its wake. By the way, the narcissist can manage to live on inside the victim even after they manage to escape; it is as if their “seed” goes on.
However, when we speak of Narcissistic Victim Abuse, we are speaking of an abuse that has been caused by someone with a personality disorder, and more often than not, their personality disorder has not been medically diagnosed, therefore the narcissistic individual goes undetected in society (i.e. in the home, the work-place, in organizations, in social settings etc.). It is vital to understand that narcissistic personality disorder is a serious mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, and a deep need for attention and admiration. The narcissist believes that they are superior to others, and have little regard for other people’s feelings, regardless of whom they are (i.e. spouse, children, parents, siblings, friends, colleagues, peers etc.). Other people are merely objects there to serve their every need as narcissistic supply, and they will use every form of abuse, without guilt, empathy or conscience, in order to make sure that their needs are served.
What do victims of Narcissistic Victim Syndrome look like?
Are these clients likely to come into the therapy room and say “I am the victim of narcissistic abuse”? The answer is, absolutely not? They will look like any other client coming into your therapy room for the very first time. They are probably most likely to bring in an issue that is quite mundane and recognizable; such as, they are feeling depressed, having panic attacks, or the feeling that they cannot cope. They have no idea that they have been living in a “war zone” with a narcissistic personality in command (either in the past or in the present). However, you, as the therapist, do not need to be afraid that you will not be able to cope with this syndrome. If you have completed your training, then you should have all the skills necessary to work with this syndrome. Armed with knowledge of narcissistic abuse, and practical skills of working with trauma, you will become a life-line to any victim of narcissistic abuse.
Like all clients coming into therapy, they have a story to tell; therefore they need someone to become an active listener, and to validate what has happened to them. To my mind, it is the validation of the person’s experience that is vital from the very beginning. These clients are not mad, however, frequently they appear highly strung or nervous, and their levels of fear may be high, while their level of self-esteem is low. Often they present with obsessive compulsive behaviours, phobias, panic attacks, so at times they may actually feel that they are going mad. They may experience insomnia, and may have underlying eating disorders, so you may notice they are either under weight (as a means of having some control), or overweight (as a result of eating to self-comfort).
When working with NVS, you will find yourself working with emotions involving shock, anger, fear, and guilt. Often the victim will be suffering from PostTraumatic-Stress Disorder (PTSD), or Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; Symptoms of PTSD are often grouped into three main categories: Re-living (flashbacks, hallucinations, nightmares etc), Avoiding (people, places, thoughts, loss of interest etc), and Increased Arousal (excessive emotions, problems relating, difficulty in sleeping and concentration, outbursts of anger, anxiousness, panic attacks etc). You may also notice that your client is inclined to “dissociate” while you are talking to them. That is, it seems as if the client is tending to “compartmentalize their experience.”; in so doing, they may appear to be detached from their emotions, body, or immediate surroundings, this experience is called derealization.
Dissociation can be caused as a direct result of trauma, often experienced in multiple forms during narcissistic childhood traumas (i.e. physical, psychological and sexual abuse). The dissociation is an automatic and effective defense mechanism to overwhelming acute stress the child is being subjected to; it is as if the child “jumps out” of their body in order to disconnect from the intolerable reality of the abuse while it is happening; by dissociating, the child is able to endure the highly traumatic experience without having to fully experience it. I once worked with a client who was sexually abused as a child by her narcissistic father. He would call her in when she was playing outdoors with her friends, he would sexually abuse her, then send her straight out again to play. She recounted how, during the sexual abuse, she would escape out of her body, get up on top of the wardrobe and watch what was happening to the child in the bed. She referred to the child in the bed as the “bold girl”, and the child on top of the wardrobe as the “good girl. The bold girl never went outside the house, it was the good girl who went back out to play with all her friends. This defense mechanism protects the child against total annihilation of the self when their nervous system is strained to the limit. However, the long term effect of dissociation is that it may decrease the victim’s psychological functioning and adjustment. Dissociation is a crucial strategy that protects a person during a crisis, unfortunately, trauma survivors often rely too heavily on dissociation whenever they feel stressed in a situation, it can become their automatic freeze response to stress. Numbing the body is not an advantage when a person is called to live in the world, because it can impair their ability to take appropriate fight or flight responses if faced with any threat from outside the self. Of course, there are varying levels of dissociation, from day dreaming to fantasy, from leaving one’s body to derealization (the constant experience of dissociation). In the therapy room, dissociation severely diminishes the client’s ability to be present to the process, if it goes unchecked it may become a stumbling block. The therapist needs to go slowly at first, building trust and safety so as not to derail the person’s system. By explaining what dissociation is, the therapist can gently bring the client’s attention to when they are “leaving”. Taking time to build and practice new skills (in a playful way) as the go. The sequelae of narcissistic abuse may include any of the following symptoms: low self-esteem, self-mutilation (self harming), suicidal thought, chronic pain, PTSD, depression and somatizations.
Somatizations are a variety of physical symptoms that the victim may have experienced, and usually they will go to their doctor to get relief from their symptoms. Most doctor’s are unable to give a true diagnosis of what is really happening, as they can not classify the symptoms as they don’t have any identifiable physical origins. When there is no detectable organic pathology evident, the person is often diagnosed as having a “psychosomatic illness”. Somitizations pose a major problem to the narcissistic victim’s general health. Many of the symptoms of their ill health are a direct result of their repressed memories from their narcissistic abuse, usually from childhood. For example, a child might get severe cramps in response to the fear experienced by the narcissistic abuse, then as an adult they may wake up with cramps for no apparent reason that the doctor can find. In this case, it is more likely that they are accessing repressed memories that they are not aware of, but their unconscious is now desperate to cleanse itself. These clients with somatization disorder will typically have visited many doctors in pursuit of effective treatment, and many informed doctors do recognize that often the underlying cause is emotional, and they are then likely to refer the person on to a psychotherapist. Very often the symptoms are cured once the underlying emotional cause is identified, and the repressed memory has a chance to surface in order to be released in the safety of the therapeutic space.
Clients who have suffered narcissistic abuse are likely to demonstrate feelings of shame, and humiliation, this is partly due to the narcissistic abuser projecting their shame on to them. They also tend to be over responsible, and apt to self-blame, this is because they learned to take responsibility for the narcissists behaviour. Whenever the narcissist’s rage is triggered, without any doubt the victim is told it is their fault (i.e “It’s your fault, you should have known that was going to upset me, now look what you’ve done”) They may act inferior or powerless, and feel great guilt when talking about their perpetrator, even to the point of wanting to protect them. They will often act with disgust at themselves, thinking they are not good enough, smart enough, pretty enough etc.
Victims often find themselves being victimized by more than one person. They may talk of a second relationship that mirrored the same experience as with their first perpetrator. Quite often the first narcissistic injury is experienced in childhood. It may have been a parent, grandparent, sibling, friend of the victim etc. Having been re-victimized they often internalize that there is something wrong with them, and that they deserve this kind of abuse, and resign themselves to that fate. It may become apparent that they may not have reached their potential in their personal life, or their professional life, this is partly due to the fact that they always had to stand in the shadow of the aggressor, and not upstage them. They learn to live in the shadows without really knowing why. These are some of the signs you can look out for. But there are more complicated symptoms still to be revealed that will need more of a greater explanation.
In Narcissistic Victim Syndrome you are looking for a cluster of symptoms to emerge:
Any of these symptoms mentioned above you might find in any client, however when they present themselves in a cluster, you will start to identify a syndrome emerging. You will identify many of the symptoms of trauma (avoidance behaviour, loss of interest, feeling detached, sense of a limited future, sleeping or eating difficulties, irritability, hypervigilance, easily startled, flashbacks, hopelessness, psychosomatic illnesses, self-harming, thoughts of suicide etc).
In the course of your work together, you may also become aware that the victim always seems to defend their abuser. While the situation would not make sense from a social standpoint, it may make absolute sense from a psychological viewpoint. What you may be witnessing is a psychological condition known as “
Stockholm Syndrome“. Stockholm Syndrome involves the victim emotionally bonding with their narcissistic captors, this “trauma bonding” is known to be a strategy of survival for victims of narcissistic abuse and intimidation. In such a hostile environment, the victim soon learns that their abuser does carry out threats, so they are in real danger. Threats to their physical or psychological survival terrify them, leaving them feeling lost and isolated. But then, confusingly, they can also receive small kindnesses from the abuser, which makes them feel connected again, connection makes them feel safe once more. It will be important to understand the components of Stockholm Syndrome in order to understand why the victim still wants to support, defend, and even love the perpetrator after all that they have gone through. This is a highly unconscious sophisticated source of defense for survival that needs to be applauded. Sometimes therapists will ask the client why they stayed in such a dysfunctional relationship for so long. This is not a good thing; it also tells me that the therapist does not understand a process called “
Cognitive Dissonance“.
Cognitive dissonance is another unconscious defense mechanism employed for survival. As you can imagine, living in a torturous war zone, where all forms of power and control are used against you (intimidation; emotional, physical and mental abuse; isolation, economic abuse, sexual abuse, coercion, control etc.), the threat of abuse is always present. Coping with these states of mind throws the victim into any number of inner conflicts where defense mechanisms are called for. For example, a woman who is abused by her narcissistic spouse will hate the conditions she is living in. However with the real fear of a violent reprisal from her narcissistic captor if she tried to leave, she will more likely choose to stay put. The cognitive dissonance shows itself through rationalization: On the one hand: she abhors her unhealthy relationship and all the abuse that goes with it; while on the other hand, she tells herself that he only fights with her because he loves and cares for her. This inner dialogue reduced her anxiety, allowing her to bond with her abuser, to the point that she will even protect him from the outside world if people attempt to rescue her or encourage her to leave. The result of that is a massive draining conflict ensues between the person’s emotional self and their rational reasoning self. Their “cognitive dissonance” is a sign of the disharmony the victim is experiencing as a result of two conflicting ideas going on at the same time; i.e. the victim knows that they should get out of the abusive situation, but they also know that to do so will put them (and possibly their children) in great danger. When these two strategies are in place (Stockholm Syndrome and Cognitive Dissonance), the victim firmly believes that their relationship is not only acceptable, but also vital for their survival. They become so enmeshed in the relationship with the abuser, that they feel that their world (mental and emotional) would fall apart if the relationship ended. This explains why they fear those people who attempt to rescue them from their abuser, and how this creates the victim to develop cognitive dissonance and become protective of their abuser.
As you (as therapist) continue to work, another symptom you may become aware of is how the client seems to be feeling uncertain of themselves, constantly second guessing themselves, even in the smallest matters. For example, as you open the door to your client, you might find that they always check “is this the right time for our appointment?” Another thing you may pick up on is, even after discussing something with them in detail, they want further clarification that they are hearing you right. Their confidence is so low that they have trouble making simple decisions. You need to be aware if this is happening, because you may be getting a glimpse of another severe symptom of narcissistic abuse called gaslighting.
Gaslighting is a technique of psychological abuse used by narcissists in order to instill in their victim’s an extreme sense of anxiety and confusion to the point where they no longer trust their own memory, perception or judgment. Gaslighting can happen in any relationship between any gender. It merely requires two people, the gaslighter (the narcissist) and the gaslightee (the victim). The gaslighter needs to be right all the time, that is how they keep their power and sense of self intact; while the gaslightee gives away their power to the gaslighter because they seek their approval in order to stay safe. That exchange allows the gaslighter to define the gaslightee’s sense of reality.
“The Gaslighting Tango” is one of the narcissist’s games that happen gradually over time, it is a game (or dance) that allows them to define and shape their victim’s reality by eroding them mentally. To the victim, the gaslighting starts with the stage of disbelief, i.e. something happens in the gaslighting exchange that seems odd to them, and they can’t believe that it has happened. In the next state it moves to defense, at this point the victim still has enough of their self to fight and defend themselves against the gaslighting manipulation, however they are told things each time that end up confusing them, (i.e. “You’re too sensitive”, “are you mad”, or “I never said that, you’re imagining things?”). Or the narcissist may play tricks on them, moving or hiding things, and when the victim asks them if they have moved the object, they deny it, saying they never saw it. Gradually the victim, unable to work out the game, finally begins to doubt themselves. The final stage is depression, and by now they don’t even recognize who they have become, and they feel broken and isolated. They begin to feel that they can’t do anything right any more, they don’t feel that they can trust their own mind, and they withdraw with a skewed reality of what is really taking place.
The techniques for gaslighting are powerful, mind-games; they are similar to certain forms of brainwashing, interrogation, and torture formally practiced by Central Intelligence Agencies and Religious Cults for decades. The narcissist uses gaslighting as a deliberate and cruel way to manipulate the victim into thinking that they are losing their mind. They bombard the victim with such uncertainty that eventually they are unable to trust their own perception anymore. When they reach this state, they begin to doubt everything about their own selves, their thoughts, their opinions, their ideas, their ideals. Often they think they are losing their minds, and they become very co-dependent on their abuser for a sense of reality.
This is a quick exploration of the complicated subject of Narcissistic Victim Syndrome, and hopefully I have demonstrated the need for a therapist to have a good working knowledge of the “isms” of what Narcissist Personality Disorder entails. It is my opinion that without this knowledge the therapist would not be informed enough to be able to take the victim deep enough into their own story. They need to educate the victim about narcissistic behaviours so that they can make sense of the long painful journey they were on with their narcissist dance partner (whether it is a parent, sibling, friend, co-worker etc). Without putting these separate parts together (personal therapy and educational therapy), I fear that it would leave the victim vulnerable to future re-victimization. Many victims seem to progress from crisis to crisis, making them particularly at high risk of re-victimization. This is because the victim will continue to attract narcissists like a moth to a flame because they have been well groomed in their responses, this leaves them looking like obvious willing partners to the convoluted dance with the narcissist. Of course, this is far from the truth, because the victim is totally unconscious of there being any dance going on, they are totally oblivious to the fact that they are a partner in the dance. This ignorance leaves them open to the danger of forming another dangerous liaison and being victimized yet again.
And lets not forget that so many of these women today feel very entitled and are so very stuck up as well.
I don’t even know where to begin. It was so awful. It is completely surreal at this point. This man abused me mentally, physically, financially, spiritually, sexually, you name it. We had two children together. There were older children, but I don’t want to go into that for fear of hinting at who I am. At one time, while he was still drinking, he held a gun on me. On a very important day for me he raped me. This after refusing to have sex with me for years. He would throw me out the door at night and lock the door behind me, knowing I was afraid of the dark and that he had told me he saw a dangerous animal in the yard. I was not allowed to work, to clean or cook, I had to borrow money from him if I needed anything. Cold showers. Nor allowed to do grocery or any shopping. Not allowed to use the car. Refused to let me visit my parents. Vile names, gaslighting, bad mouthing to family, etc, etc. He began alienating our children from me when they were just toddlers (we lived together but he would take them out alone and keep them away from me).I was losing my desire to live. I began drinking heavily to ease the pain. One night after a traumatic experience had taken me out of the home for a month (family member who had grown up in the home with us was having suicidal ideation). I was gone for a month. When I came home he was nice for one day. The next day he started right back where he left off. I had been drinking, snapped and flipped out. Police called and in my drunken desperation (I was a screaming, ranting, raging mess); Told the police if they did not remove me from the I would kill him. I was arrested (I complied with everything the judge asked of me and the charges were dropped). He got an emergency restraining order. I finally filed for divorce. He painted a picture of his good “Christian” self and me as an abusive . . . narcissist. I lost the house , all my belongings and worst of all,, my children. Who refuse to speak to me at all. It’s been over three years. I am having such difficulty dealing with the injustice, the lies, the trickery. I’m dealing with some of the abuse, but the ongoing abuse of this man who ruined my life, is torture. I have PTSD, panic attacks, insomnia, horrible nightmares still and cannot sleep in my bedroom and have to leave the television on when I do sleep on the couch. I still walk on eggshells and am sometimes terrified and very jumpy. My therapist says I need to stop perseverating . . . really? I fluctuate between being stuck, being depressed, and being angry and depressed. I am naturally a happy person and try to keep a smile on my face and be nice to everyone, I’m pretty sure most people have no idea what a mess I am inside.
Symptoms can be different than that described above. I was 45 when I first got into a serious relationship with a man that has NPD. Now I realize that I had met people like this before, but I knew something was off and never got close to them. It took me years to understand I was being deliberately abused. He seemed so nice to other people, yet ruined the very first time we celebrated my birthday together. All holiday, any accomplishment I had made, any friends I had, all destroyed and it took years for me to understand what was happening. I felt so stupid. Getting my hopes up over and over and over. Anyway, my blood pressure went up, my blood sugar went up, my cholesterol went up, I became so “lazy” but before that I became very angry, I saw a therapist and was so angry she believed I might have a stroke right there so I had to learn to calm down, but that became numbness. In order not to be traumatized by his actions I became numb and sick and too fatigued to leave. After reading this I am now hopeless that a mental health professional would not understand this is from NPD abuse. I was an active, very healthy, strong and happy go lucky person with an almost fairytale optimism. I loved people easily and animals without limits. Now I struggle to get out of bed, unless he needs me to do something specific. He first moved me to a small town away from family and friends, all the while becoming friends with my friends so he could slowly undermine all of my relationships. He triangulated and tried to pit me against women he would hire or befriend. He would get scary angry if anyone complimented me, sometimes he could not even hide it and was mean to me in front of people, but I think they chalked it up to they must have been fighting before but it was simply because someone at the party told me something nice. I am so tired. I used to be a fitness buff, a big reader and hard worker. I am just sad. I don’t understand how people can be this way. HIs mother is also this way. He would encourage me to do nice things for his mother and watch her insult me to no end. He enjoyed it. He turned my own friends into people who turned on me. With zero support system I feel lost and unable to do anything. It’s been 12 years. I
I have spent a lot of time being tortured by a narcissistic person & the whole time that he was being nice & terrifying within the same interaction, slowly eroding my sense of self and the world. He didn’t do anything grand or special and I look back at it now as a pig wallowing in a pig pen because he delights in rolling around in his own shit. He tried to force me to believe his shit isn’t shit and he knows that he’s just a jealous, violent, insecure, vengeful person. He went to great lengths to spy on me and find every last thing that mattered deeply to my heart and destroy it. He gaslit me for years while mocking my attempts to heal and causing my brother to kill himself. The “joke” was that it would take my brother killing himself for me to admit that I cared about a person in my life that mattered very much to me then. I just didn’t have the time, space, tools, or ability to comprehend what was happening to me. I still examine myself daily for traits of narcissism and I’ve opted to remove almost everyone from my life to ensure that the brainwashing I suffered doesn’t hurt anyone else. I know that because I worry about being a narcissist and I do daily work to be kind and live according to my deeper values (compassion) that I am not a narcissist. I may just live out this lifetime healing from 37 years of this kind of abuse. As long as my children are safe and well that doesn’t matter. What does matter is I got out of it and I will never allow someone that close to me again. I spend time in nature & with my pets. Thank God that animals can’t be narcissists. It’s sad that humans are capable of such cruelty. I am capable of cruelty and at the time I could only speak out of my wounds. I wake up and tell myself, baby steps. I am healing. I am growing. Today I will be kind. I can’t help if people hate me, judge me, or can’t forgive me for how I acted while I was being abused. I can only continue to work towards healing and wish for the best.
My therapist says she cant diagnose a friend. So cant say they are narcissist. And I have always felt guilty and not validated sharing my experiences. And the abuse has almost taken my life which she minimized also. I am enraged even more at this! And feel
Re-victimized by therapist. What to do to have my experiences able to be shared and validated by therapist? I now keep blaming myself and holding myself accountable for all the craziness. It makes things worse.
I over heard a group of technology students say they have ways now anyone who can hunt all your friends for your past, implant them with a mind control or some kind of voice tiny syringed nano sized voice two way implantable to make you think you hear voices and it really is not it is computer or phone signal or reversed you get the message in subliminal also in some cases.. backwards?…. thought, track able and hear-able internal body device to get revenge on you by making those people think or even believe they were raped by you, so they can make you get in trouble, be labeled as a rapist, loose your retirement and even get revenge with stealing money through hearing your thoughts, even anywhere … like take money form accounts and such and use it to force t you to do what they want and police don’t know anything about these implantable s! They think they will be able to avoid police and even make it so police won’t ever be able to figure out their gas lighting or criminal thinking or ways and in some countries they are all ready doing this and it is easy to get the technology hire a friend or so by watching your doctor appointments so they can get you implanted through a secret paid situation!Then they can mock and even impersonate “Enemy of the state” activity movie mocking Jean Hack man and Will Smith or impersonating investigators and investigations and hoping to quote: Get you ! Our country won’t be safe anymore from anyone and i hope this can’t happen and laws for rape or crime will say how crime cases are done and who can report and where it is reported and to whom and where it happens so people can’t be forced into a false lie case, before a real case is done!!
The cell phone implant is very much like that?
Police, FBI, government gets blamed while they abuse you, get revenge even blame your own family and abuse using a sneaky underhanded mind …. game!@
So many narcissists and feminists type of women out there nowadays that is for sure, which is why so many of us single guys are having a very difficult time meeting a good woman for us now unfortunately.
I am a victim of a narcissistic daughter. There will be months that she is pleasant but at the drop of a hat she turns nasty. She brings up the past and blames everyone else for her actions; most are lies. She has physically attacked me and her sister. Her sister had a restraining order on her for a year. She goes thru periods of normalcy but explodes for no apparent reason. My two other daughters and I were always fearing her explosions, waiting on pins and needles. We always knew it would happen. And nothing we said or didn’t say would only enrage her more. My two daughters and myself decided that she would never change and we decided to cut ties with her. She has tried to contact us but we remain automat. It has been two years now …..recently she came to my house and knocked on the door; I hid in the kitchen til she left (I am deathly afraid of her). I was 69. We still love her but we don’t want her chaos in our lives.
I am reaching out for support for my son who is has a narcissistic physically abusive girlfriend, and he feels trapped, both currently unemployed and both have had kidney transplants so have chronic medical conditions they live with but both are capable and responsible adults in a destructive lifestyle pattern and she is wearing him down.
It’s unbelievable how many survivors have the same story. They can follow a flow chart for a abuse and still blame it all on their victim. I wish knowing I’m not alone helped me feel better but nothing ever makes the hurt go away. No one deserves to be used and manipulated for years then thrown in the garbage and lit on fire.. they aren’t happy until they get their big victim story. I was done with my ex then months later I saved pictures to a shared photo album online thay I owned and she was still a member of and the next day I get a summons to appear in court. Turns out she strung me along it was all lies and her way to gain power and control and punish another person in all the ways she claimed to be abused. It’s traumatic when you realize how much of what you knew and trusted for so long was lies. They violate and dehumanize you and still try to punish your for not responding! She basically dared me to write her back said all this insanely hurtful crap twisting our past.. but our past was all bs anyway more sick lies and future faking.. empty promises of a deranged little girl who can’t heal and needs to abuse to feel strong… go get your womens group attention if they knew you were a hypocrite who abused the law and courts, and help for women in need for your selfish bullshit I bet they wouldn’t be giving you kudos for your malicious abuse. How coulld you do that to me or anyone!?? Weaponize psychology to say eveyone is your Marc abuser when it’s you!! You just cut the other ones out but you cost me my life! All the lies for years!? Did you ever even go into work.. who was the dude in sc hah god I feel so stupid for believing you were some honest genuine well meaning person trying to be better. You just wanted a stepping stone and a scape goat for your pain.. you should be ashamed but you have no empathy, no real morals, all you care about is getting your way no matter who it hurts. Sick monkey
It’s interesting to know that victims of narcissistic abuse would be seeking help because they have been having a hard time coping with their lives and not because they are aware of their situation. I hope that my sister would think about seeking help from a narcissistic abuse therapy professional, because I have a feeling that is her situation with her partner of four years. It is quite hard to talk to her in that matter because she shuts down the topic, so I just hope that she realizes it on her own.
Without doubt, women can be equally narcissistic, and they are very distructive, especially to their children and husbands. Narcissism is not gender specific….. and to think so is very dangerous for society at large.
I have been through this. After finally being able to leave my husband, after 11 years of marriage, have been single for over 20 years. But i have to say I got a rude awakening after hearing people say that narcissists like my ex are mostly male. I have actually known several, my husband was the only male. And they don’t have a lot of support systems as women do. Almost makes me embarrassed to be a female when I see what these women do 😞
Hi Denise, I am sorry to hear about your daughter, but am happy that she is seeing a therapist to help her deal with the trauma of her relationship.
The best way you can help her is to support her, with love and patience. You don’t have to challenge or advise her, leave that to the therapist who will know what your daughter is able for. The recovery work can be very tough, it is hard to discover the person you loved did not care for you. It can bring a lot of shame and pain, which is hard to deal with.
The abuse will have created her brain to produce a cocktail of hormones. Her brain needs to cool down, then her anxiety will ease. The brain will best respond to love, compassion and kind people to support her. This will cause her brain to release oxytocin. Oxytocin will help ease her anxiety and calm her Nervous System. Right now she is like a boat in a stormy sea, very disconnected. The softness and love you can give her will help her feel connected to something, someone…. and this will make her feel stronger. This also helps to break the “trauma bond” of her ex. Harsh “tough love” where she feels a need to defend her feelings of loss, grief, sadness will cause her brain to have a stress reaction. Leave the recovery work to the therapist for now.
Remember what your relationship was like when your daughter and yourself were happy together. Whatever you gave her then is all that she needs now…… someone to listen to her (not try to fix her). Just accept her where she is in the moment, and stay in that discomfort with her…… there is nothing more you need to do. Of course your heart is broken, and you desperately want to fix her, but that is only going to bring her anger at you…… softly, softly approach, with love and plenty of virtual long distance hugs. Warmest regards.
Christine
Hi Christine…a very interesting article that I happened upon while searching for Victim syndrome. My daughter who is 35 just spent 4 years in a relationship with a man-child who as time showed is a narcissist. Unfortunately for my daughter it seems to have done some severe damage to her self. She is in therapy and has been but also is on her 3rd therapist. I’m hoping this new one is better informed about this behavior and can finally really help her. As her mother I am at my wits end. The phone calls (we live 2500 apart) have been many and last for an hour or more regularly. My daughter revisits and dissects every single thing and I know the history very well. Unfortunately she is so wired about all of this trauma that we often end our conversations badly. She is offended by things I say so often that I now barely say anything for fear of setting her off. Well meaning words are twisted into negativity. I have tried to set boundaries but that is also met with negativity. I love her and know she is traumatized by that relationship and I hate to see how it is tearing us apart. Whether my daughter suffered some childhood trauma is a mystery to me. I was a single mother from the time she was 2 years old and my other child was 5. I was actively involved in my 2 children’s lives and was present in the home whenever they were. I am unaware of any trauma during that time. What I’d like to know is how do I deal with this. How do I protect myself from her verbal abuse and hostile attitude toward me yet still support her. I have been her sounding board for many years and through many of her life’s ups and downs which seem to linger for longer than maybe they should. I’ve researched to the point of re-reading the same information over and over. I’ve tried many routes but I seem to offend and anger her 90% of the time. Our relationship has been a bit of a push pull one for years, well before this boyfriend. I know she loves me but she seems to want to rip my sense of self to shreds at the same time. Luckily I know this isn’t about me necessarily and is more about how she deals with problems. Thanks for any input or information
Reading Melissa’s story,
You made me cry Melissa, this is exactly what I feel like at this moment.
I left her, live on my own now far away from everyone, feel lost and lonely, alone in this world.
I wish you all the luck Melissa, be strong, just like I have to be strong to get her out of my life and my mind.
Which is so unbelieveble hard to do.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Melissa
Melissa on March 9, 2020 at 6:25 pm
This is my unfortunate reality. And now he has left. After leaving a thousand times and always returning. I always believe it’s for good. Like now. I have been absolutely terrified of a life without him and am completely lost and alone and do not know what to do or even where to start. He has his life and happier now and I am left with a desecrated heart and a ruined life and an extremely scrambled brain. Mentally physically emotionally and spiritually drained don’t even scratch the surface. How will I do this? Who will take care of me? Or who do I call if I have a flat tire? And trust me I know how absolutely ridiculous this sounds to anyone else. I ha e truly been stupid or actually played for a fool for 7 frikkin years now. And obviously I still am I guess. Why did he do this to me? I’ve never do anything to anyone to deserve any of this. Never. Sorry. I just need to get it out and feel like maybe someone will hear me. Sorry.
This is my unfortunate reality. And now he has left. After leaving a thousand times and always returning. I always believe it’s for good. Like now. I have been absolutely terrified of a life without him and am completely lost and alone and do not know what to do or even where to start. He has his life and happier now and I am left with a desecrated heart and a ruined life and an extremely scrambled brain. Mentally physically emotionally and spiritually drained don’t even scratch the surface. How will I do this? Who will take care of me? Or who do I call if I have a flat tire? And trust me I know how absolutely ridiculous this sounds to anyone else. I ha e truly been stupid or actually played for a fool for 7 frikkin years now. And obviously I still am I guess. Why did he do this to me? I’ve never do anything to anyone to deserve any of this. Never. Sorry. I just need to get it out and feel like maybe someone will hear me. Sorry.
In the past week, I came to terms that I am in a marriage with a narc. Its a horrible, empty feeling. We are a large blended family with 6 kids. I have 2 from a previous relationship (not married) and I have full custody of both of them, she has 2 from previous relationships and both different fathers, and we have 2 little ones together. Her oldest daughter, who is 15 years old, just moved out of our home to her dads who she never lived with or was comfortable with, because of her mom, my wife. My 2 biological kids have suffered tremendesouly by her verbal abuse to them for the first 4 years of our marriage. She would make her daughter lie to get away with lies. And she was still a little girl. There can be CLEAR evidence that she lied, like in front of her face, and she will deny everything. It almost makes her look stupid. She will steal stuff from MY kids and lie. She will tell me that my son said something and very bad, just to get him in trouble. I feel soo empty, angry, deceived. I don’t even care anymore. I have been hardened inside. My kids mean the world to me and I would die for them. She seems to be taking all that from me. She makes all the rules in the house, but if it goes with her narrative, or for one of her kids, the rules always change. I don’t even know what the rules are in the house because it chances from day to day. And only changed for her kids. I am so tired. But I am usually never like this. I have given up and am so depressed because our 2 kids we have together are so attached to me. I love them so much. But she keeps trying to make me the bad guy because I now stick up for myself and my kids. She threatens to leave or tells me to go. Its hard.
What a huge amount of suffering and empathy expressed here! I wish I had learned about NPD and NVD long ago. My life has been wasted in a seemingly futile struggle with seemingly overwhelming adversity made much more catastrophic by the abuse by my narcs. Two major narc relationships in a row taking 20 years and I’m still a wreck. But the light of understanding is blazing now. I’ll not dance that dance again. In fact I rose to my own defense recently when another master of deceit narc attempted to lure me into their ghastly labyrinth. This time I refused to bow down before their alter and offer my soul for them to shred or trample. Yet I can feel the old impulses tugging at me. From growing up with a abusive narc father and worshipping him for the longest time. My head still aches to this day. It’s almost feels like we are addicted to our narc.
I have a theory that people with symptoms of BPD, Borderline Personality Disorder, are predisposed to abuse by narcs. That I was attracted to narcs is obvious in hindsight. But seemed natural for a long time. They replaced the father narc and to some degree other sadistic abusers in the boarding school system. The extreme low self-worth of the BPD sufferer can make for a easy target for a narc. They dont even need to try very hard. A easy target for lazy narcs. I had a two vulnerable narcs and two grandiose narcs. It’s a wonder I’ve survived and bravo to all who shared here and survived.
It’s been such a mad journey through this crazy “health care” system. I wish you all the luck and blessings on your journey to recovery. I would encourage sufferers of NVD to look at BPD and see if there is something that is predisposing them to abuse.
I was also a immigrant. And had a head injury. So to say it was confusing is a vast understatement. As mentioned in the article it’s hard to even know where to start when in counseling or therapy. It seems the dust is settling at 57 years old. Daily migraines and brain fog are not as debilitating as they were. Much damage is left to undo however. I was vilified and defamed through a macabre campaign to destroy me so I would not need to be compensated for my work and property. I was unable to defend myself so the crime continues to go unpunished.
Might it be possible to start a crowdfund campaign for victims who are abused and robbed? It would require this sensitive subject to come out of the shadows. That’s the hard part. We hide in the shadows until it’s too late. The attorneys I spoke with said they couldn’t see a sure profit so I would need to pay up front. The victim has to pay! We need compassionate attorneys working on it. Could crowdfunding cover the up front costs? I want the scheming narc to pay for the crimes. My sense of justice is pissed off!!!
I wanted to respond to a question I read in one of the comments. They asked if anyone experiences anger from the abuse. All the time. Its constant for me. Because of my anger at my abuser and the things he did I walk around like a ticking time bomb. I have anger simmering under the surface. Before I met my ex I was happy-ish. He showed me how ugly and vile people can be and its stuck in the forefront of my mind. I’m in therapy but I dont get to see my therapist more than once a month so its not doing much good. Thank you for these blogs …they are giving me help and answers. Much love to anyone struggling with this shit. You’re the bravest folks I know. 💜💜💜
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I have been away from my NPD abuser for a few years but we were married for 24. I knew he was a narcissist for the last 4 years, that’s how long it took me to figure it out and get him into marriage counseling where the wise counselor diagnosed him and sent me to a Narcissistic Abuse support group. I am still so angry though. I don’t have as many nightmares as I used to but I am not the person I used to be. I feel weird referring to someone as a “friend” because I lost my trust in people. I have been forcing myself to say “Megan is my friend” etc. because I have to retrain myself to trust other people somehow. I just wonder if others still feel a lot of anger. I was never an angry person before I met him.
Hi, is there something we can do to help our children who can’t break away from narcissistic parent? Unfortunately, they have to be co-parent. Thank you.
I am so glad to find this articles. It is explained what happens to a narcissist victim. I understand more what happens to me because i always find myself being together in a relationship with the same type of people. I begin to understand that i have the same symptoms like I always try to rationalize my partner behaviour even if in that case he is the one at fault but he can always reverse the truth and blame me. I always think that if i leave him then i will fall apart. And it always repeating again and again…I always find myself being together with a narcissist
Wow… I just had my second session with a therapist today. She brought up the word Victim…or always being the victim in situations. I came home and decided to look up “victim personalities”. I was offered this link and jumped to read it because my father is a textbook narcissist. He has destroyed my self esteem my entire life. I read every word of this and it explains absolutely everything. Why I can’t handle and cope with certain situations, and so many other details. I want my therapist to read this before I go back again. From what we discussed today and then reading this, I can see that she does not begin to understand the depth of the trauma that my father continues to inflict on me. And… this is the reason I cannot respond and deal with bosses who tend to be in the demeaning narcissist type of lane. Thanks for publishing. I would like to see more insight into what can be done to help ‘us”!! These victims. Some steps to take to re-build, if it is possible. Thanks again
I love this website! Now I know for sure what I’m dealing with.
After 3 years in a narcissistic/abusive relationship I realized I deserved better so I left. Now I’m going through the effects of NVS.
It isn’t easy but it has inspired me to help victims in similar situations like mine and to share my story.
Good luck to everyone out there in self-healing and prayers to those still going through it. Get out now!
Dear Andrea,
I believe and trust you. You are a courageous and loyal mother. You have chosen to survive and live, in hopes to save your children.
I know that it feels like NO ONE sees it except you. In that aspect we are experiencing the same thing. Even my strong, emancipated, female friends say “oh, your poor husband, he wants so much to make you happy, he is crazy about you…”…Then here am I getting doagnosed with every mental illness on the planet..All n/c I thought air was making him this way..,
A financially successful Narcissist, such as your ex, miust be an omnipotent megalomaniac…
Your children will show symptoms of living with a narcissist parent, which teachers are by law recquired to report of even suspected. I pray that the worst he is doing is making them responsible for his anger. Thank God they have each other.
Trust me though.. Someone, somewhere out there, knows exactly who he is and what he is capable of. I was surprised that it was my husband’s family that realized it years before I did. Not that they are able to offer support, they have been conditioned to also “help calm him down”. But just knowing that they knew about it, and that it was not me, helped my self esteem immensely. I don’t have anyone. No father and my mother jpassed away a couple years ago.
I would like to offer my friendship to you, and really, if there is anything I can do, even just pray and meditate sending good vibes, I will.
I feel quite alone at the moment myself, and a, unsure what will follow. I could really use a friend.
jenniferchamoun@creativewriter.art
All men spend seven and half thousand dollars on a woman they dont care about especially on you. A woman who does not listen to what her husband wants.
From an email my exhusband sent.
Example 2 what simple instructions do you not understand that I am no longer responsible for my mail. This email was my wake up call because it was so ridiculous. 20 years I was married to an emotional monster. No one gets what the emotional poison eventually does to your life. They manipulate you so badly you don’t think you can live with out them and then they ghost you because you weren’t good enough. They screw around and screw your head while the world thinks they are great.
Regards a suicide survivor because apparently I was crazy and please feel sorry for him
I can’t go in to my full story. If I do I just become bmore froen than I am already and I end up rambling because to understand one thing I have to tell 50 other stories first etc… what my exhusband did is so much worse than a horror story. I left the house one day and sent an email suggesting a temporary separation and a plan on how to do it. When I returned the next day I was shoved out and door locked and was served with divorce papers. Our kids were toddlers. Both of my parents had just died. I had about $5.00. He is very wealthy and successful. I was crazy and weighed 100 pounds. I would find out that he had set up a plan years ago. He had been calling what family I had left regarding his “concerns” about my mental health. I couldn’t even get an attorney. I couldn’t even buy anything to eat or have a place to go. The court appointment attorney lit in to me them first time I saw her. Apparently he had already seen her many times. He is so “charming”. He kept my kids from seeing me for over a year and no one would do anything. Result: in order to ever see them again I had to sign over all parental rights I had. I was so far beyond desperate. At the time I left him I didn’t even understand I had been abused. It is 8 years later and I hardly get to see the kids. I am a monster to everyone in the community. I’m pretty agoraphobic etc etc… All I do is try to think of ways to help my kids. I see it in them. The lying, covering up, secrecy…..everything I use to do. I can’t accept that I have NO WAY TO HELP THEM. I have to continue to play his games because we both know if I don’t he simply won’t let me see them again. The kids have never even asked me why “I left” I’m sure it’s because they “think” they know. I have no idea what he’s told them and I WILL NOT ask them questions because what good would it do??? Oh yes and btw…..he’s into child pornography. The court appointed therapist all those years ago told me that doesn’t mean he’s a bad father. The police told my that because what I found was only stories “GRAPHIC “ pictures would be less sickening than what I read. ….but they told me that’s not illegal and could read them in the park if he wanted. My kids appear normal, private school, fathers on the school board etc…. but I see what they are going through and they need help. Guess who will help? NOONE! It’s been 8 years and everyone has turned me away or just listen to what I have to say and do nothing. I can’t continue to repeat my abuse. I’m afraid of becoming catatonic. I have learn to “apear” ok. I have a job for a few years although I have to take a half a year break for “health reasons “ I just keep praying someone will hear me. I pray….. please help us. But how??? I go to therapy every week and I like them but it’s just mostly me talking. I don’t think they have a clue what to do. I don’t think anyone does or anyone can. That’s my fault I know. But it’s not my kids. They can still be helped. Can’t they?
I may as well have been wearing a billboard across my chest. Thank you for an amazing article…perhaps realizing this, I will stop returning to the same dance floor.
I’ve only recently realsied that both my mother-in-law and former husband had NPD.
There is something that the analysts seem to miss and that is that the aggression need not be explosive.
My former relatives had extremely aggressive behaviours that were expressed as passive aggression, it made it even harder to call this type of aggression out. They would simply deny that they were being aggressive, or intended to hurt.
I became so ill with depression I began to have constant images of suicide. My teenage children are now becoming alienated and I am powerless to stop this process. They recently chose to move in with their father and his mother lives close by.
Oh, myyyyy. Amen. Amen. Amen. I’m in agreement with your well-put expression of the personal realization of ‘shock and aw’ as you read your own mirror, and the deep desire to heal, then the desire to send out the warning alarms for constructive, preventative methods to bring foresight to others.
I also wear those same shoes, and have been isolated (furthering self-isolation) by feeling so ostracized by the lack of anyone else’s ability to know how to even come along side for support. I’ve not been able to feel ‘normal’ or act ‘normal’, but for the social lie to ‘appear’ normal. People eventually see through it, but not quite being able to put there finger on it, without really ‘seeing’ it at all for what it truly is, then choose others for preferred company as they misread the distorted signs. You then become a victim x2, now in loosing all the social contacts you once had.
Where does it stop? I’ve lost half my adult life to this insidiousness. (Yet another word I came up with a few years back, which I now read in the above article to aptly describe this life atrocity.)
After finally getting a relief from abuse order (RFA) 4yrs ago, we are still living separately, but legally married. I’ve helped nurse him back to health in his residence after severe burns and skin grafts and still feel responsible after almost 19yrs on this 2nd marriage, as we both get older. We’re now both 66. My health is not bad. His is horrible. I’m using his truck for necessary transportation while living 7 rural miles from town. Still feeling trapped. ‘Still getting his severe put downs and name-calling. ‘Still feeling like I’m supposed to do what I can in the name of ‘availability’ so God can make this work. My estranged spouse, however, rejects all event facts which led up to the necessary RFA, which was a second legal occurrence in 12yrs. Both are refuted as factual events or how they came to be, by my spouse. No admittance of guilt; only anger that he was ‘thrown out’. He though the first occurrence require him by judge mandate to attend a batterer’s intervention program, which he Ace’d. He still claims the accusations are false for both incidents, where no strikes were landed, but severe hands-on or physical threats were acted upon to instill definite fear for worse to come.
My heart still breaks over unfulfilled hope for safe reconciliation. As Christians, I’d hoped for so much more; from my church, from my family, from my friends, from him, from myself. I just don’t know how to help myself, although I’ve been seeing a Christian counselor for a few months now. This helps me know I’m not really crazy, but my life still is. Disassociation? Yeah. I get it. Everything is too painful.
Very informative article. I am a victim of Narcissist spouse which harmed me a lot in 5 years of married life. And finally I escape from her deadly game and survived.
It’s so hard and still incomprehensible that you can literally read your life in an article or in a Youtube video. Where should the healing begin for those out there that still don’t know how frequent and routinely infamous this behavior is?
There should be street signs and billboards about this as prevention and yet as a victim myself, I acknowledge how extremely difficult it is to carry this uncalled for burden then also expose yourself and so much pain without inflaming feelings of pity from others and worse yet… self-pity.
It is so complex. And yet our social traits and so many broken beliefs aiding the pain to prolong itself. Sometimes I wonder if I’m condemned also to create a false self as well trying to cope this excruciating reality while trying with such effort to seem ok, cured, ongoing… These are not merely loving partner expectations gone bad…it takes everything from you while leaving you with that perfect definition of future less worsen by the fact that 4 in a 100 man have this personality disorder at some level.
The anger keeps you going back for revenge or awareness. The dissonance keeps you wanting to alter reality. The pain crushing you down and the help untrained enough… God bless you Doctor. I wish you shared a plan on what victims could do to expose this without looking like crazy women that simply want revenge because they were discarded…
N.V.S. is underestimated by general practioners, and therapists. They are often misdiagnosed. You have to be gifted to recognize this symptoms. Therapists who are known in this area are underrated and still in minority. Victims who suffer are from N.V.S. are exhausted. Tina Turner has written abook about her relationship with Ikeand is also a survivor of violence in her relationship. She described her life with Ike and made her comeback. When she went a way she had no single penny. Some people say how is it possible that she survived. She is a strong woman.
Hi Lisa, I also have NVS have you found a support group? I could really use one right now!
Dear Hamy,
You are so precious. Thank you, so much for sharing your story. I found it today while looking for information on being a victim to a narcissist. I am much older now, and know more about my family dynamics because of my experience growing up with a narcissist (my mother) and her victims, my father and her children. I’m the eldest of three children. At sixteen, I became pregnant and married but was separated with two daughters by age 20. I was not as self-aware at sixteen as you are. If I had been I would have found a way to finish school and while doing so, seek counselling. Today, there are many resources available like the internet where you can do research on the subject and find support groups but in my opinion, if I had known what you have been able to know, at sixteen, I would began with a counsellor and I would not have given up until I found a good one. This is what I ended up doing all my life anyway. It is my belief, the sooner you begin the better. If you’d like to contact me, please do so at dianekey@telus.net
Remember wherever you are in the world, you can do this! If I can survive someone else’s madness you can to. Lots of Love, Diane
What a great job of fully explaining the depths of this disorder that I first wrote about in an article on Medicalnewstoday.com back in 2004. At that time I had written a book called “When Your Perfect Partner Goes Perfectly Wrong: The Survivor’s Guide to Loving or Leaving the Narcissist in Your Life”. (Available at Amazon.com.) It was one of the rare books at the time that brought the victim’s side of narcissism to the forefront. Now, all these years later I’ve been away from the narcissism topic for some time – and all the negative energy it carries with it. I have written 5 other books on various topics, including my latest – a diet memoir of a junk food junkie who lost 50 pounds eating junk food! (“No Cheating, Just Eatin”, My Crazy, Successful Love/Hate Relationship With Food.”) My hats go off to you and all the other therapists out there who have evolved my little article I’d actually written to help medical professionals look beyond just the usual complaints of depression and extreme fatigue to something much more likely and much more prevalent.
Hamy: I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I want to thank you for sharing. You are clearly an extremely intelligent, perceptive and self-aware kid. While I don’t know you personally, based on the way you talk about narcissistic abuse, I have faith that if anyone can make it out, it’s you.
I’m going to share some of my story here in the hopes that it is helpful to you or someone else. Sharing definitely has therapeutic value for me.
My father is an overt malignant narcissist and my mother is a dissociative with covert malignant narcissist and borderline traits. By the grace of all that is good and holy in this world, they divorced when I was 13, giving me a chance to see less of my father. Between 13 and 16 I struggled terribly in emotionally separating from him, but I was able to cut ties with my father at 16 and with my mother at 19. There was brief contact with both of them a year ago (my final attempt to get closure), but I am 21 now and narcissistic-parent free.
It hurts, terribly, but it is not without reward. I no longer have to live in fear of my parents’ rages – or their sexual abuse. I no longer fear the unfathomable violence they subjected me to in the cult in which my entire family was involved. I was not able to rescue my siblings. I am however able to help other survivors of narcissistic abuse – those willing and able to get free. I do so while grieving my losses, healing from my trauma, and trying to be somewhat interdependent with my partner who is also a survivor of child abuse.
It is difficult to find balance and cope with the post-traumatic stress, but I am thankful to say that my life is incomparably better than it was in the recent past. I have been integrating from Polyfragmented DID and deprogramming from trauma-based mind control for four years now and while it is extremely difficult, I can honestly say that healing is possible.
Blessings to all,
Katy
P.S. Great article, thank you OP! (I felt moved by the comments and forgot to say so sooner, sorry!)
Rachel, I have NVS also. Did you join any support groups on Facebook? I am here for you. Can you message me?
Wow! Everything in this article rings true for me! I find that I have all of the systems of the NVS and my mom has most of the systems of a raging narcissist! She has turned to mental/emotional abuse now that I no longer live there. However, I just got out of an in-patient psychiatrist ward due to a trigging event on Valentine’s day when I went to visit my mom. My dad is also likely a Narcissist who is now in prison for robbery. He had sexually abused me and my sister and perverted my oldest brothers mind to the point my older brother ended up sexually abusing my older sister when she was 9 (he was 16). He then got in a fight with my dad and shortly thereafter died of an appendicitis! I am severely depressed and fight nightmares each night to the point I can’t sleep and want to die most nights. Yet I continue to fight because I now have a 4 year old daughter. I want the best for her! I feel this information is so important that I will share it with my therapist!!!
This is the best article I’ve seen on narcissistic abuse. I got out of my 7-year relationship 3 months ago and have been in recovery. I’ve realized my mother was a narcissist as well. I went to 7 therapists — 5 in the past 3 years — and NOT one of them every mentioned narcissistic abuse. I had to figure it out on my own by googling my symptoms. I was lucky. This article describes EXACTLY what I went through over leaving, how I didn’t trust myself, how I believed I was losing my mind. I look back now and it was a nightmare.
I feel betrayed by the therapists who I went to for help. I had two become impatient with me when I told them I couldn’t leave. I am glad for this article, but in the meantime, how many others are suffering or dying, because I would have become ill and probably died had I not left. There has to be a way to make this issue mainstream and popular. There has to be a vehicle whereby this syndrome is more easily recognized. Perhaps a movie? What I’ve been through and what others still live with is tragic!
Hamy:
You are very brave and insightful to realize what you endured.
Regrettably, it sounds as if your mother was a raging Narrcissist.
Her lack of empathy, entitlement (to use aggression against you), her self-absorption, and extreme
cruelty are features of severe narcissism.
I hope you find a good therapist. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) has the most effective
track record with clients. With work, this therapy can be very beneficial to you.
Best regards,
Jody
Im wondering if this is studied here in the USA and if so where info or who i can contact in wa. State?
Frances, today is February 7, 2018. I am just now coming cross this website and reading your post. As a survivor (in progress), of narcissistic abuse, there may be some things to help that I can share with you. If you are interested, please e-mail me at: Chaocity@hotmail.com I hope you have found some help by now though, as it’s been a while since your post. I hope the best for you and others on this forum.
I’m so sorry Hamy 😥
I wish you could leave hell today. You still can. Department of families will tell you what to do. Is there any relative you could possibly trust? At 16 you can do GED and get a job. That will help you to live happier. There’s gotta be someone out there to back you up. I was your age when I realized how wicked my mom was. I left home only to come back one month later. Then, I married a narcissist who destroyed what was left of me for 20 years. Those men can’t change. I’ll pray you find your way out soon!
Much love cause you deserve it
Angela
I’ve just realised my entire family dynamic. My whole life up until this point has been a huge blur. Realising my dad is a malignant narcissist who never loved me or anyone, a monster who finds manipulating and psychologically abusing his children fun. Realising my mother is a co-dependent in every aspect; realising my siblings also have been so mentally abused with that their sense of reality is just skewed past ever acknowledging their pain. I’m 16 years old and have only just woken up to this nightmare we call reality. Trauma has become an integral part of my life. When I was just a toddler it was my mother who physically abused me relentlessly. I’m only just realising the reasons for why she did. My mom never was the narcissist in the family but she is and was in a great deal of pain. Her marriage with my dad at just 19 was probably the sealing of her fate. In fact I don’t think my mom understands the concept of freedom, of individuality, of love. So how could she ever give it to her children? My father’s narcissistic abuse drove her to take all the rot he had placed in her heart, and to dump it onto me. I could not ask anything of my mother without fear of triggering her and being beaten until I couldn’t cry anymore. This shattered my view of life as a child. How could I ever hope to make sense of the world when my mother would come into my room and beat me until I couldn’t scream any more, because I wasn’t asleep? I was alone for most of my childhood. Alone with me and my toys. My dad went out in the mornings and worked till my bed time, although he was fully aware of what was happening while he was gone. His version of sympathy after an abusive episode with my mom was giving me his lunch snack he hadn’t eaten at work at night and letting me watch Shrek on his computer. Even though he much preferred to make phone calls while I still wept quietly, nibbling on a Strawberry Kelloggs Nutrigrain (every time I see them they trigger this memory), I still vividly remember the bonding I felt towards my father that night. I think it marked the first time I could remember properly feeling loved. I remember sleeping feeling safe and sound that night, probably a decade ago. I don’t remember these feelings ever coming back however. As I got older my mom’s regular physical abuse toned down to regular verbal abuse with still frequent outbursts of violence. My dad grew board of violence and moved to psychological abuse. Pretending to ‘forget’ things just so he made it fully clear we were dependent on him and him only. Things like keeping the shopping low, regularly allowing electricity and gas to run out for a day or two. Forgetting birthdays.
I’m going to need all the strength I can get from above if I ever want to recover, help my siblings recover, help my mom heal and find a way to leave my dad forever. There’s a long road ahead of me.
After discovering what narcissism is and being married for 20 yrs , someone said narcissistic and I started reading about it my relationship now makes sense after yrs of wondering what was wrong , I love learning about psychology,so reading was quite enlightening and easy to understand and you cant not see it once you understand , Ive always been a strong person , but this one has been rough.I have confronted and stopped , and set boundaries ,it is a constant . For about a yr , now He is not the most severe but bad enough, Im have been able to stand up and stop alot he is not physically , just more confusing and emotionally , He has No empathy for anyone , cant show concern , always my fault anything financial, says one standard , acts another , I believe this has affected my health to some degree , am shutting him down very directly verbally now and not accepting blame , I noticed one thing I didnt realize I find myself avoiding social situations, I dont have the energy to deal with them and seems to be a weakness ive developed , overwhelming , and I feel ive aged alot from this , my pastor says i shouldn’t leave and not sure how this will go , I realize now my mother was very much this way and my being the oldest , I was her scapegoat , this is all amazing to understand , I no Iam someone I have value , I have pretty good self esteem , but this is still hard . his family are totally oblivious enablers and they believe all our problems are because of me , understanding all this is good but really hard to move forward i read the symptoms of this article was my interest in your post thanks Joy , whose name doesnt fit much anymore
Dear Tina,
I am sorry to hear about your story. Please, I have met quite some narcissists abusive people etc. read all the resources you ind online. Search for every acnowledged / professional institution, community or shelter you can find. Do not hesitate to try the womens shelter. Are you sure he really went there? Or did he just tell you that to keep you away from it? Even if he went there, abusers often claim to be the abused and those who work at a womens shelter will very likely know that. But only if you tell your story as well. He relies on you being scared and hiding. Do not attack him but find allies and I think the womens shelter can still help you and will listen to your story. I wish you the best. You are not alone. And you will come out of this stronger than you thought you could be. With a lot of love! Lilly. And: thank you to the author for the great article!
Hi Wenke:
It is confusing to me. The whole compassion for my narc thing. I had so much compassion for my narc. She ran the show for so long. One of the first things a therapist brought out in me was the anger I felt towards only understanding my narc and not myself. Fast forward years of therapy, much self-growth, much self-understanding, and finally being able to not care genuinely about the trauma my narc went through as a child (which in many ways was repeated in me and then doubled-down on) and it is difficult to see how understanding and having compassion for my narc would not send me right back to the beginning. My compassion for my narc, once I was old enough to start registering it, was the thing that prevented me from caring for myself. To assume it again, seems to me, would be asking to have her reassert her control over me. Like I said, she did worse to me (both her and my father) and I have not followed her path with my own children or partner. I do believe there may be such a thing as character and that some of it might be in place when you are born. That we are not simply blank aheets. That everyone in the same situation does not act the same. Therefore, because I have seen myself and others around me make choices over and over and over again that do not hurt others, while simultaneously seeing the narcs chose hurting others instead, I think allowing some accountability is ok. I think to chose to hurt others always is a lazy way to live actually-they are picking the easy path of getting more than everyone else, and I don’t see much sadness in them other than when they don’t get the maximum amount they believe they are allowed-which is everything available. I don’t feel less healed because I feel this way. I feel more healed. By constantly allowing myself to feel only compassion in the past for my narc, I furthered my stock home syndrome. I believe we do not always have to forgive others and feel compassion for others to move forward ourselves. In fact, it I had waited on that, I don’t think I would ever have been able to change all I have-I would simply have spent a lot of time, as I did in my young days, focused on my narc mom and ‘all she had gone through.’ Instead of what harm she did to me. If I have acknowledged and grown, she can too, but, it is her place to do that. Not mine. She has to decide to put in that work. She can forgive herself. Or beg for my forgiveness (never going to happen as to my knowledge she has never said she was wrong for anything). She can change as I have changed if she wants to. But, I am not responsible for that either due to forgiving her. And me having compassion for her had no part of my recovery. It still doesn’t. It is something I personally view with suspicion as something that would set me backwards.
Hello, my name is Tina. I am not a therapist, however, I would like to thank you for the information that I have read here. I am a victim of abuse and I am currently fighting a case in court against my abuser. I feel very lost as I have not worked for sometime now and can not afford to pay for any attorney or therapist. I have been kicked out of my house due to my abuser filing a restraining order against me. He is claiming that I have abused him. He even went to the only woman’s shelter here in town to have them help him file his papers, therefore, leaving me with no where to turn for help…of course. So I just wanted to thank you for all this helpful information,
~Tina~
Your stories my story. I’m desperate, I just wish I could disappear and go to some witness protection program and never look back. But I have two children with him and he’s a monster.
I am a survivor of Narcissistic abuse. It it still happening even though I left him over 5 years ago we have spent 2/12 years in court fighting for my daughters because he is trying to say I am crazy on a massive amount of illegal drugs, and it’s all in my head. I have been fighting for 12 years and I can no longer afford it or take it mentally, emotionally, physically or spiritually. I am financially and emotionally bankrupt. I suffer from panic disorder, insomnia, complex trauma syndrome and agoraphobia. I cannot afford trauma therapy at this time because the abuse has affected me so profoundly psychologically that I have trouble holding down a job because I am afraid to leave the house. I isolate. I have lost interest in things that I once enjoyed. I desperately need help. Do you have any suggestions to help me?
Thank you,
Dana Smith
Good stuff. My mother is a gas lighter. She drove me nuts. ITS YOUR MOM!! The lady you got to trust. Amazing that she considers me an object. There was a fester, like a bug bite for years until FINALLY, I got it. Had to say goodbye to her. Sadness arises but no alternative.
Tell her to read: Men who hate women, and women who love them. It’s only a start, but helpful. It would do good for you to read it as well. She will need your support.
Thank you for posting this. I recently got out of my relationship with a narc and am fighting to put the pieces of my life back together. I am also fighting to get my daughter back, as he has taken her knowing that she is the most important person in my life. Since the separation, and my adopting an absolute NO Contact approach as far as he is concerned, he has come up with numerous ways to “punish” me, including horrific, false accusations of me abusing my own child. I now find myself not only having to fight to get a divorce and to get my child back, but also having to fight to prove my innocence to various legal and law enforcement agencies.
I have been doing a lot of reading since the separation and am amazed at how blind I was before and during the marriage. The sad part is that the legal and law enforcement systems are also blind to this kind of abuse. Your article does help shed light on this problem. I just wish that there would be more ways to make people (and the legal system) of how serious and damaging such abuse can be. Having lived through it, and still paying the price for a narc’s actions, I do not wish this on anyone.
Thank you once again for all the materials you have made available and for helping spread the knowledge.
Annie
Dear Shannon,compassion for the narcisist is something the therapist will have, because he/she understands the narcissists deep hurts. And you, as a victim, will be able to feel compassion also, after you have had therapy and have healed your own wounds.
Compassion does not mean justification, only that you have looked behind the mask and seen the little scared child that hides there. Trust me. It took me more than 60 years to get there, but today I can see my abusive mother for what she was behind the mask and understand why she did what she did to me. That is what finally gave me peace for my own sake.
Missy, I totally agree. I refer to it as “soul rape.”
The more and more I read about this the more depressed I get. Married for over 15 years I recently discovered what is wrong with my wife. Everything everyone is describing is my wife. I have four kids and feel like I am stuck. It also seems like if you mention Narcissist to a counselor no one wants to really touch it. I was lucky on one occasion when i mentioned it to a counselor and after telling her my story and answering questions she flat out told me to RUN, leave and get a divorce because my wife will NEVER change no matter how much you hope or pray for her to. So sad. I just don’t know what to do. If anyone can help with finding a counselor that can help me cope I would appreciate it. My kids…..These types of people can really make you turn into a dark, dark person. I need help.
After 30 years living with a narcissist, my whole identity was lost. Somehow I realized how I had to find a way to leave him for my kids sake. I wanted them to know this was not the way to be treated, etc. After much counseling where the word narcissist was never brought up, I prepared to leave him. Even after being divorced 16 years, he will never think he done anything wrong. My youngest son ended up being engaged to a narcissist. It was a struggle to get him to recognize this. I thought I had lost who he was. Thank goodness I had read much & he went to a counselor, but I it was very challenging. I did not give up & now he is dating again. However, after reading so much about this, I realize I am still affected by those years with my ex & don’t want to be. I sure wish I had known about a narcissist many years ago.
This article is so right on the money in so many ways, but it goes so much deeper than this too and it’s hard to explain cuz even when we leave them it’s almost impossible to convince myself that he never loved me and that I was a means to an end. Yet, I know it’s the truth when I rationally look back at all I have been thru with him. And how every single thing explained about narcissism is a checklist of our 4 year relationship. How do I stop loving someone I gave my whole heart too cuz for some reason I can’t. Even knowing he never loved me back. I don’t know how to take that back from him and I don’t know how to fix that broken part of me. How am I ever supposed to trust my own judgement or anyone elses words ever again. I’m torn and broken and I managed to escape 2 months ago and I don’t allow myself to even entertain the thought of going back, but I still find myself hoping he will show me thru his actions that he really did love me. I hate myself for hoping that. How do I stop?
Thanks for sharing – Up until recently I had no idea the true implications of relationships with narcissists. My mother was definitely one of those. I witnessed her shocking jealousy using a leather belt on her young female flatmate the shock and trauma and guilt believing it was all my fault. Because either Rosemary was defending me or paid me too much attention for my mother’s liking. I also witnessed my mother give my then stepfather a hefty whack across the face.
My mother also dumped me in a boarding “school” for “the maladjusted” financed by the family trustees – Regularly my mother warned never to tell anyone the name or its whereabouts telling me nobody else would have me! The owners of this so-called school was a female psychiatrist and her ex mental nurse assistant secretary. Both were violent sexual predators – the psychiatrist was definitely a narcissist. My mother had found the perfect place labeling me while covertly allowing her to access her own psychiatric sessions on the quiet as I eventually learned years later – So in fact my mother embezzled my education which was little more than lessons in terrorism with all the abuse and violence – I even tried to complain about this female “psychiatrist” to one I’d been sent to aged 24 married to the first adult abuser The psychiatrist blackened my name leaving vicious remarks that ensured nobody would touch me for the next ten years while prescribing cocktails of a suicidal chemical cosh – this shut me up causing amnesia, confusion and it was my grandmother’s geriatrician who sounded alarm bells about similar medical negligence but too late for her, she died a miserable death. Lucky for me I’d just changed jobs, dispensing prescriptions in a GP surgery where unlike retail pharmacy I finally got full access to all the drug data available. The shock and horror reading “possible brain damage with long term use” and “Addiction” that can occur as quick as 4-14 days – Understandably the spouse was dead against me coming off my controlling drugs – The shock of seeing such warnings in black and white scared the hell out of me and fear of what it had done to my brain. I went “cold turkey” congratulating myself; believing I could just get up walk out the door and get on with my life!! Unfortunately things didn’t quite work out like that. In less than a month as the poisons released their grip on body and brain I finally saw who I was married to and couldn’t stand his face another minute. In fact I remember that everytime I saw it, his face appeared bathed in a blood red haze. One of us was going to die. Up until then I’d been convinced (by him and others during childhood) that I was “no good, a terrible person to live with and nobody else would ever put up with me!” And I believed every word of it. Understandably I was terrified to find out that I was a really terrible person and even worse. Even as I began therapy for the first time I was waiting for the therapist to say everything was all my fault. And how if I was there all on my own without the spouse’s input, would they believe my side of it without his side. I wasn’t used to being believed. All these years later having got shot of my second violent partner, not sure if he was a narcissist – but the latest one definitely is. The damage this one has wreaked on my life is beyond description. Once he got his hooks into me – the pain,the trauma and damage is indescribable – I don’t know how I’m ever going to be able to trust anyone ever again. I’m determined NOT to change my phone numbers again I just have to be strong enough not to talk to him – He has been bleeding me dry. Emotionally blackmailing cash out of me promising he wouldn’t drink it away or whatever else (he’s in Morocco) back and forth I’d go – exhausted vast sums wasted -playing on guilt that I was here and he was there – having been virtually deported only months after we met in the UK – He actually forced me into marriage (2nd attempt – I walked out in tears first time round ) I’d no intention of keeping the second appointment at the registry office – I was driving him to a drug and alcohol drop in appointment – he started screaming in my face – it was pouring with rain – he yelled that he was going to pull the wheel over and take us both to hell! He’d already done this on a previous occasion driving him on the M25 – it was a miracle we didn’t crash, once again in the rain. My mother had done something similar with her female flatmate driving in her tiny Ford Prefect crawling up a 1 in 4 Welsh hillside in dense fog – I was petrified – Ismail’s threats resurrected the buried trauma – The ceremony was totally unreal and like it was happening to someone else – My new “bridegroom” expected this would allow him to remain in the UK – He wouldn’t have it that it was all too late and it’d cut no ice with immigration. He’d introduced himself as an “Asylum Seeker” and being totally ignorant of immigration matters believed him -eventually he admitted he was illegal and had come in on his brother’s old passport in a lorry. Within a couple of days he talked about finding the helpline “Survivors” he then told me he was abused by an older boy in his village – Of course this was what got me and kept me trying to help – Whether it was true or not his behaviour was deteriorating – I managed to escape first time round and had 4yrs remission – His brother’s British wife called me from France – could I loan them £2000 because Ismail’s older brother had died and they needed to ship the body back to Morocco – Her call caught me off guard – my mother had died, I was stil traumatised over that – with no idea of her whereabouts and humiliated by the relevant solicitors – It was their bullying and attempts to cover up their own wrong doing that flung me into the arms of a very dangerous man -How I got through all of this I shall never know – The brother’s death proved a convenient opening and invitation to a family wedding – the daughter of the dead brother – of course I fell for it – and that is how it started all over again and even worse – ismail had extorted a massive sum of money just days from this appalling so-called shotgun marriage – forcing me to drive him to Norwich and once again shrieking in my face that he was going to pull the wheel over and take us both to hell – I literally feared for my life – he intimidated me into organising an urgent bank transfer cleaning out my NatWest A/c in a bank where nobody knew me – I’d previously had him arrested for blackmail the day after the marriage – He threatened to set fire to my manuscript of 10yrs blood sweat and tears life story – and himself out in the garden -if I didn’t hand over a massive sum – having sworn undying love he was now refusing to sleep with me on the night of this crazy marriage – I stayed awake all night waited till he fell into a drunken stupor – swapped my manuscript for something else – rang the bank and the police asking for him to be arrested when we arrived at the bank – the bloody police let him go in the early hours – and the CID officer accused me of calling it blackmail just to get Ismail out of my house – -Well they had hidden agenda – the ex and father of my children’s cousin was in the police force and they had some really depraved history they wished to keep covered up! So no way were the police going to help me. The struggle has been stupendous – The subject of paedophilia that emerged while in the throes of divorcing the father of my children has now come full circle. The Chairman of a local CAB office I’d illadvisedly attended interview as a prospective volunteer backed up the lying manager who interviewed me. She suggested I’d labelled Benefit Claimants “Scroungers” I didnt tell her that I’d also been receiving benefits for years – so it didn’t make sense. I wrote a complaint to the chairman who just turned out to be a full blown JUDGE! Instead of wanting to meet me and get my side of things he backed her up to the hilt – I discovered the Judge had only presided over a paedophile case of a local businessman who’d downloaded 85,000 images – more than 250 were level 5 – it also happened the Judge is a Freemason – The judge just gave the man a slap on the wrist – 3yrs on the sex register and “Community” service – that’s all he got – I was so angry I wrote complaint to Citizsen’s Advice HQ – Ever since I’ve suffered a catalogue of reprisals! These bastards are deliberately obstructing me from repairing my neglected home and wanting me out! So called “professionals” with all their bullying after my mother died, once again in order to coverup wrongdoing were so unpleasant that I fled straight into the arms of a this latest narcissistic arch manipulating batterer – I’m convinced the Judge, and others are linked to some paedophile ring – I also discover he is a Freemason – It’s been a twisted web -Don’t know how I’ve survived all of it.
I am a victim of narcissistic abuse. I was adopted and raised by a narcissist. The narcissist is the woman that adopted me, and her husband is 100% co-dependent on her. My adoptive father, the co-dependent chose himself over protecting me.
I am now an adult victim of a narcissist. I have finally cut complete contact with these people and they are no longer allowed in my life. The narc still tries to play the ‘victim’ role, and get to me. I have blocked these people from EVERYTHING. The only way this narc thinks she is able to get to me to try to enforce further abuse is by the postal mail.
When I receive any sort of mail from this narc, I immediately take the item out of my mailbox and throw it in the trash. It literally sickens me that I was adopted to be used as a psychological/emotional punching bag.
I feel like not enough is discussed or done about narcissists breeding within the adoption industry. There are SO many children who fall prey to these narcs due to being adopted. The disgusting part is, these children need to have safety, nurturing, and unconditional love as-is already due to being separated from their natural families-
They are then turned around and subjected to never ending abuse without anyone there to protect them.
Debbie,
Keep telling your story. I find the more I talk about the abuse & am validated for how bad it was, the easier it is to cope. I was in for 8 years, I can’t imagine 33. How wonderful that you did leave. Your life will get better!!
Wow, my situation sounds just like yours. I filed for a divorce 12 months ago and there appears to be no end in sight, despite us not having any children together. I have been no contact for a year now, and it’s been imperative for my healing. I would not have had the strength to leave or the ability to heal without God. My faith, my prayers, and my church-based support groups have gotten me through this. It’s a process and it takes time and patience. But leaving is within our power and our healing will happen. You’ve got to rise above it and refuse to let these demons break you. You’re right, God dies not want us to be abused! These people are not human and they are soldiers of the devil. Leave them and don’t look back. The rear view mirror is a lot smaller than the windshield, and there’s a reason for that! God Bless us all! May we all get out and heal our wounds.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE! It is going to take a long tome to get yourself out of this hole. I find that family members and friends that are not close to the abuser tend to grasp whats happened better. Those close feel somehow responsible for not stepping in
our defende or denied us the ability to even talk to them about it that they are now ashamed. Pray and read the bible all u can. The peace of our Fathe will fall over you. I pray that he puts people in your path to guide you, love you, hug you, support you, believe in u!
Oh god help us poor you! I have too lost everything from narc abuse I feel so utterly confused at the horror I have endured it’s totally unbelievable!! They need putting down! Evil pure!!!
This by far is the best article I have read and I now have direction to seek the help I need. My encounter was with my supervisor for two years. The damage was already done by the time I was informed what I was dealing with. Unfortunately I mastered walking on egg shells, how sad! I elected to forgive her but I can’t seem to forgive myself and I am so angry. Narcissists are text book…that is how I survived working for her but this was after major damage was already done. Many coworkers share my experience and then there are the enablers and oh don’t forget the one on the pedestal. It’s been 5 months that she is no longer my supervisor but i still have to work with her. Everything she did to me is listed under narcissist abuse, everything!!!! Text book. I will never be the same.
I agree with most things said here, but one. Feeling compassion for the narcissist. It is hard to feel compassion for anyone who systematically destroys another human being, just for kicks. They will take that compassion and use it to exploit others and if that destroys someone else in the process, than so be it. This same person will solicit sympathy and pity from others, while reducing you to a pariah who desperately needs support and validation. Even my own parents told me I needed to “get over it” Narcissists know exactly what it is that they are doing, they simply don’t care. Even when you finally escape, go no contact and avoid them at all costs they still find ways to hurt you, because of a pathological need to destroy what they can no longer control. To a narcissist you are not a person, you are an extension of them, an object. I had a crappy up bringing too and I didn’t chose to abuse other people, instead I allowed another to abuse me. I will pity him, but he is not deserving of compassion.
This article is probably the best thing I have ever read that describes me. I have bookmarked your site, so I can copy this off and present it to my next therapist (searching for one with difficulty). If they don’t buy into everything laid out here, they are not the practitioner for me.
Like many others here, I have had a chain of narcissists and other PDs in my life. While years ago I realized I was drawn to people who are like my narc mother, I am still doing the tango. I suppose I have made progress, though, because at least I am able to develop stronger boundaries in romantic relationships. Where I seem to have the greatest difficulty is with other females.
I came to the conclusion recently after yet another bullying incident that I am a magnet for mean girl behavior (which is a nice way of saying narcissistic smear campaigns, backstabbing, and character assassination). I feel that women, especially in the Latin American culture in which I live, are particularly skilled at covert narc damage, and in many cases their environment supports them (secrecy, love of drama, called euphemistically being “passionate” or “hot headed,” etc.). As skilled as I have been at spotting most PDs early on, some of these women have fooled me.
It’s all very well and good to claim you’re not going to participate or engage, but when your reputation is being ruined or there are even legal consequences, it’s hard not to fight back. So, the only solution IMO is to become quite tough about the people you allow into your life. Every experience with a PD makes me a little less nice, less generous, and more cynical about other people’s motives. I find other people don’t like this because it either makes you less of a source or they are naively focused on having only wide open, positive people in their lives and don’t understand the protection that victims of narc abuse may need to take to survive. Yes, we circle the wagons a little tighter, but better that than being too loose with our boundaries. I do feel lonely from time to time because I have so few real friends, but in general I am happy in my own company and like a fair amount of solitude anyway. I am focused on moving to a different country with a culture more in line with my way of personal interactions. I have also discovered that in many cases money allows one to avoid some of this. It’s very hard to say “f*** off” when you are dependent on someone due to financial constraints, hence my commitment to bolstering my income.
I chose my name because I’ve had enough of this syndrome and its effect on my health and career. I have been rather ruthlessly cutting people out of my life who have contributed to abuse, including several siblings. I understand intellectually that they were groomed for their behavior by our mutual mother, but I also realize it sets my mental health back to be with them. I am already dealing with enough from past abuse, complicated grief from parental alienation, and the challenges of bootstrapping my psychological health on my own–I cannot explain to my family the dynamic from my perspective, nor will they ever understand the gaslighting and hot/cold behavior I have experienced. If they are not narc sources for the other siblings and have had less porous boundaries, they probably have a completely different relationship with these siblings, so good for them.
I have started viewing narc abuse, drama, smear campaigns, gossip, and the like as obstacles to my happiness and career advancement, and I see them in my mind like evil soldiers guarding my heart being kept prisoner in a tower. I must slay all of them mentally to release my true and better self. Some people might say I attracted this negativity with my thoughts or that it is a form of resistance and self-sabotage against success. Perhaps so, but in any case, this abuse is going away. Anger is galvanizing, better than depression. I have zero tolerance for personality disorders now. Enough.
Thank you for giving us this space to unload and share our stories. My thoughts and prayers to everyone else here who is going through the same thing. Stay strong!
Debbie, I’m glad that you are reaching out and taking the brace step of sharing your story. You will get stronger and stronger as time goes by but could really benefit from the support of a counselor. Many people get denied after applying for disability so you just appeal. They hope to weed people out.
I was in a relationship for 33 years with a sociopath. I do not talk about it, the abuse, it was awful. I look back now and I thank the Lord for giving me the strength to leave. I was broken and I ended up losing everything I owned and became homeless. I just moved in with my sister last month after walking the streets aimlessly,having to be my own support system. I had called a hotline one day because I wanted someone to tell me that I was okay and I was hung up on, I’m guessing because what I was telling her was unbelievable. I am going to apply for disability and I know I will be denied just for the sheer fact that if someone can’t see the disability then there isn’t one. I feel so alone, nobody understands what I went through.
OH ,THIS Is going on to my DAUGHTER and now he is doing it to me ,my daughter is 40 years old and for two years has had a relationship ,he is 20 years army and SAS He has bought a Doberman as I am scared of them ,I think so I wont visit ,but as it is 15 weeks old i looked after it for a few days while he was away and the dog and i bonded i love it and its loves me ,but out it trying to attack .I HAVE JUST FOUND OUT from the man that sold it that he asked for it to be made to protect,this man up to last week has made me think he treated me like his Mom .WHEN HE FOUND OUT THE DOGS fond of me he got so angry with my daughter and told her i must leave as the dog is being spoilt,my daughter is starting to tell tails of everything i do,and pleasing him at any cost .he is allways right in his mind and has to win,this artical is making me think
You may need to look into spiritual healing. Narcissistic abuse is very much an attack on the soul. Many life coaches out there specialize in the combination of psychotherapy and spiritual healing techniques. There is a higher purpose associated with becoming involved with a narcissist… to heal, you have to learn how to fully love yourself. My mom is a narcissist. I’m 33. Just realized it.
Frances, I understand, what a horrible hurting time you’re living through but you will endure and be happy again. I’m divorcing a malignant Narc after 18 years, and e have a slam child, the abuse is relentless but it speaks about them,not us. It’s them, not you, take heart you’ll get past this xx
Frances go on Facebook and join one of the Narccisitic support groups. They will help you sort all of this out.
So, I just wanted to thank you for this website. I feel like I have really stumbled onto some clues that make sense to me as I am –slowly– recovering from what I now understand to be narcissistic vicitimization.
I was lead here because I felt like I have been gaslighted for over 2 years now by a narcissistic female that I work with–one that I fell for. She continually kept me off balance and lead me through the 3 stages as you describe. It is SO TRUE that it is a macabre dance of madness. I mistakenly thought this madness was love because it was so powerful (to me) and I believed it was powerful to her as well. I believed that it was circumstances in life that kept us apart, but after last december I realized that I had been manipulated and strung along, only to replaced by another and then told that I was being “too sensitive” about the whole situation.
What I have really struggled to understand is WHY she became the person she is today. I thought that her PTSD explained the coldness and lack of emotional intelligence, and so I used this as a way to defend her from others like my family, my therapist, and even myself. I am waking up to what has happened and the anger and sadness I feel is a daily struggle, especially since we both work in the same place to this day. I am haunted by conversations, dreams, and images; it’s just become something that I convinced myself that I had to learn to deal with since I now had a form of PTSD (this is purely my own assessment).
Therapy revealed to me a few revelent things, but I had nothing else to say after a few months and decided to terminate the sessions. All the same, I am still clearly dealing with some conflicting emotions. I have no contact — NONE — with the narcissist that victimized me. If I have to be in the same room as her, I turn my back to her. I try to avoid her at all costs. I know it’s unhealthy, but honestly, I am afraid of her. I wish I could find another place to work but unfortunately in this country, direct care workers don’t get paid what they should and money is a major issue. I was once a supervisor but what happened with the narcissist was SO insanely tumultuous, I quit that position and moved to nights so I could avoid her completely. Christine, you will be amazed that after that, she pulled me back into her dance and had me working for her in order to get my job back. I worked for a whole year doing extra work so I could earn a case manager position. But she never stuck up for me in the interviews and I never got the position after two interviews. She was completely silent during both interviews. And then finally, she let me know that she had been seeing someone else all along and that I was nothing to her. And then she trashed me after gaslighting.
I am currently enrolled in graduate school for social work and doing my best to get my life back on track. It has been a difficult few years, though. I sympathize with anyone that has been victimized in this way–it is truly heartbreaking to have someone you think you “love” completely manipulate and devour you.
I just broke up with my narc. After 4 and half years, he took all my money, left me homeless, and drove off in the car I bought. Then a month afterwards, I received a phone call from who I believed was his ex wife. It turns out she is not his EX! They have been married for 17 years! She talked to me for 8 hours – until the sun came up, telling me of the horrible abuse she has endured from him, and said was glad when he found me because it meant he left her alone. OMG. I really need need to talk to someone, cry, or just get some help. This state of brokenness is going to destroy me soon if I can’t find an outlet – I am being self destructive right now. I fear I am on the edge.
Hi,
This was very informative and helpful with regard to understanding the deep feelings and issues. For a long time I believed I was the narcissist and that I was a bad person and I started seeing my family less and less and my friends also. I thought that by giving into the demands of my significant other that things would get better. They don’t.
I did some research on the topic of the “Professional Victim” and my girlfriend wrote the book on victim hood. I later started emulating her behavior when I had a few too many and then she started blaming my drinking. So I cut back significantly so now she goes out and comes home hammered and says she can’t do it with me because I get abusive and angry when I drink which has never been the case. I later realized after someone pointed it out the next day that her attitude and behavior towards me when I had a few drinks that she started looking at me funny, made fun of me in front of others, would whisper in my ear and did very subtle things to get me to the point where I would become angry and blame it on my “drinking problem”.
Once in a few months I would have a few beers and explode because I would have had enough and the next day I would apologize and feel horrible and she would just tell me that I am a bad person and that I have no excuse for my behavior and if I try and communicate what was it that set me off, I would be told that I am only looking for excuses and that I have nothing to complain about and if I do manage to get a word in, then I am met with laughter and say that it was only a joke or that I can’t communicate and it’s not her problem that my communication is bad. However, when I do try and communicate I get shut out, get ignored for 2 or 3 days, get punished by withholding sex and get reminded every day of how wrong I am.
I could go on and on but I finally mustered the courage to get the F out. Very difficult because I feel that I am responsible for all that went wrong. I know I had a part to play but taking absolutely no responsibility is just a major red flag. Anybody going through the same should get help and get out. I made my first appointment with a therapist to help me through this. Just thought that I would share my story and he;p identify the many different ways one can be manipulated.
Hi Christine,
I am a man who had narcissistic parents, married a narcissistic and I think my boss is one! Help 🙂 I am trying to find a counselor. Can you recommend a book. I bought one, but the focus is on women who are trying to free themselves of the narcissist. I am free just need to recover now.
thank you,
Mark
Your words are exactly as I myself am feeling. So lost. Torn down. Alone and beyond my capacity to cope any longer.
Rose, I’m exactly where you are…TIRED. Living the same thing, day in and day out and nothing ever changing. It’s never going to either. You know why? Because I’m not the one with the problem. I’m not a sick, twisted, self-centered bastard who doesn’t care about anyone…but himself. These people go way past self-centered…they are down right psychos. Read about borderline personality disorder. It’s such a joy to live with, add on narcissism AND alcoholism and what a sick twisted psycho!!! The problem is that they eat you alive, like a vulture, picking at your flesh until they get all the way down to your bones. BUT, according to them, YOU are the one with a problem. They are sadistic, demon filled assholes. From my point of view now, I don’t care what happened in their childhood, they are mean, sick abusers who blame their victim repeatedly for the torture that they subject the victim too.
For example: Cheat, lie, steal, are verbally, emotionally and sometimes physically abusive, BUT it’s NEVER their fault. YOU(the victim) are crazy and YOU need some help. Is this anyway to live? Is this a worthwhile person? Do they deserve forgiveness, when they never apologize and point blank tell you that YOU made them do all it! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not except any excuse, see them for who they really are…the devil! AND GET OUT OR REMOVE THEM…EITHER WAY, GET THEM AS FAR AWAY FROM YOU AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
There IS only one solution and that is to leave, run, or throw them out and NEVER, EVER believe their lie of how sorry they are, it will never happen again, they didn’t mean to hurt you. BECAUSE THAT IS ALL A LIE AND THE SICK BASTARD WILL DO ANYTHING AND SAY ANYTHING TO HANG ONTO YOU!
There is NO other solution except to leave. Stop believing there is.
I’m just really, really, really tired. Extremely lost, and in so much pain over what this all means. Feeling isolated and so alone. I just keep Googling like the answers going to get easier. I’m beat down and just so very tired.
Great advice and truth in needing to educate mental health and also the need to educate schools, church and anyone working with woman and children in known situations, Yes! It is known and needs to be addressed. This is serious problem that has developed and grown for generations. It is amazing how it is the core of our worlds developing issues and crises. It is time to use our narcissistic traits to treat our narcissistic triggers. Victims are victimizing and paralyzing are children families and communities. Narcs need to be held accountable and so do victims. They need to first understand the truth, and that is This is a treatable and happens to children who are not given basic needs to develop into healthy adult lives. It is not just being in a neglected home that is subject to development of narcissism, It in fact can be more dangerous to a home that is filled with love and support and protective parents are more unaware of how they can create victim and narcissistic child. Even a parent who is thinking if he tells child he can be and do whatever he puts his mind to or want he can have is a big ego development to a false entitlement a grander effect that grows and creates a lying, cheating, manipulating con artist that becomes a Ponzi to anything and anyone he can find motive and opportunity to mirror and manipulate. Sadly this is going to be the weaker and the saddest or the lonely and desperate. It is also going to be the most driven and the most aggressive and then you have the most rightness and deprived that are always going to find and feed needs. We need to reprogram narcs and connect their inner child’s spirit to the real world and that is with adult and basic morals they all have and choose to ignore and abuse. The show must end. Victims must be allowed to develop a truth and awareness that love and life was not true and was a fantasy no matter how hard it is to believe they were feeling lies. It is your feelings that felt not theirs. You can not use same narcissistic traits to manipulate and devastate children and family and create burden and harm to yourself and others. Fool me one shame on you fool me twice shame on you. Go to narcissist groups there are out of line. I recommend studies and education go read and see the real world in the life and drama filled people growing in social groups. We all have narcissist traits, they are survival mechanisms that we develop and learn from environment and chooses. We become victims when no one stands up and says no or no. Education, mediation along with consideration and compassion can and will be the only hope to create more understanding and effective mentors to save a life and protect one as well. I can beat and treat a narc because I use the same power to expose theirs and try to develop a healthy way to show cause and effect, And created boundaries of respect and concern. They are usually determined and can be very well developed into real world when they feel accepted and accountable. Yes not reacting and seeing the games they play and why is a good way to learn to calm and bond with friend or lover. say no and mean it, If you allow it to happen you are just victimizing yourself and narc. He cant lie to a liar.
Shelly,
Your experience sounds so much like mine! I was married 16 years when I finally decided I’d had it. We also have one child. I filed for divorce 1 year ago and am still fighting to get that finalized. We tried marriage counseling too a few years ago, but he said it wasn’t working after about 3 sessions, and made me feel that I was the one with all the issues. I begged him over the years to try again with a different counselor, pastor, anyone who might be willing to help us. To no avail. He had at least one affair that I know of (now that I’m learning about narcissisism, I believe he probably had more), but was never sorry and used all sorts of passive aggressive tactics on me to make me think it was my fault. I feel like I finally woke up, literally, last year and realized that our marriage was toxic and destroying me and our son. After I filed for divorce, my husband started living with another woman half the week and with me the other half, still expecting me to do his laundry and cook his meals. When I called him out on it, he threatened me physically. I filed a restraining order, which the judge denied. The judge gave me property control so he finally had to move out, but he has permission to come pick up our son for the weekend. He also asked the judge for permission to access the property to remove some of his stuff, but has not done that yet (3 months later). I have to go to his other house, where he lives with his girlfriend, to pick up our son at the end of the weekend. The judge also ordered that I have to pay “rent” from the time he moved out until our house sells, even though I have a much smaller income and my job is being terminated in a few weeks, and have no money to rent, much less buy, another place until our house sells. Like you, I wish I didn’t have to have contact with him, but it’s not an option because we have a child and have to share custody. I also tried at all costs to save our marriage due to religious and societal beliefs, but I’ve come to the conclusion that God doesn’t want us to stay in an abusive situation or relationship. God knows when we’ve tried our best and He wants us to live life “abundantly.” God has endless love for all humans; at the same time, He puts limits and conditions on what is acceptable and what isn’t. My advice is to protect yourself and your child by minimizing contact with your narcissistic spouse. He’s gone way over the line, don’t feel guilty about divorcing him. My husband even told me that I’d broken the marriage contract by filing for divorce–even though he’s the one who had affairs! It’s for your own safety (mental, emotional, physical, etc.) and your child’s. Ask the court to help with the divorce paperwork and custody stipulation, they probably have a family law facilitator (free legal assistance) and a court mediator who can help with that. Try to find a counselor who can help you work through the trauma. Do you have friends and/or family who are supportive? Make good use of that support. Give yourself permission to take care of yourself and your child by making these choices and taking the steps necessary. I’ll be praying for you! May God bless and keep you.
I am so glad that I found this post on FB. I am a victim to this abuse since childhood and as rightly said I fell in the trap and choose a narcissist partner. I did not know there is a term for such abusive and manipulative behaviour. I am currently fighting my divorce and he constantly tries to manipulate my actions even now. On my own I figured out that I am not the me that I was before I married him. I started to rebuild myself and reached a milestone or two on my own. However, it gets so difficult to sometimes understand your own thoughts. More than that to explain to someone else as to why and how you broke into fragments. This helps me to validate my own findings and offers me direction to rebuild the lost me. Thanks a ton dear friend.
After 33years, I just threw the narcissist out of our home. I’m bankrupted, disabled with PTSD, have ZERO friends left. Both our kids are grown, BOTH a total wreck from the narcissist father. My experienced advice: RUN LIKE HELL from the narcissist. RUN. Now! Do not EVER think anything about them except that they WILL DESTROY everything good within you. They will destroy your children, your mind, your health, your career, your home, pets, car, hobbies…the narcissist will destroy everything, and tell you it’s YOUR fault, and they will laugh when you cry. RUN LIKE HELL.
Shelly, firstly I am sad you and your son have experienced this abuse and when you have a child together it is difficult to maintain ‘no contact’. If your son wants contact with his ‘father’ and you think it’s safe and healthy for him to do so then the method you have to use is called ‘Grey Rock’. As there are many websites dedicated to this subject I have not put any here.
Although you will experience a roller coaster of emotions and at times the road ahead may be difficult your futures are bright. You will get through this. Hugs x
I’ve been reading all over about this, discovering my five-year relationship is exactly this. Thank you for this article. Thank you for some insight and comfort as I start to piece myself back together for the kids and I. This website is just what I’ve needed, because it’s been hard.
Dear Shelly,
I have experienced intimate and long-lasting relationships with two partners who are narcissistic; one, my own mother. Much research during my recovery. I do understand the disorder well. Now I offer you this: I would DEFINITELY NOT return to the relationship. Narcissistic Personality Disorder itself makes it nearly impossible to grow from, and would take almost a lifetime of professional help to recover. Neither Church nor society understand the disorder well enough to advise you. If your Pastor were degreed in Social Work, however, they would not advise you to stay in the relationship. I wish you well and Happiness!
Shelly,
I can relate to your situation although it has taken me 32 years to see my way out.
Yes it is good advice to do all you can to heal a distructive marriage. But, there comes a time when you HAVE done all you can do and the spouse has not done his part except use manipulation to stay.
I have had to stand firm in my resolve against many people telling me I’m wrong and I just need to be more sweet and submissive. That doesn’t work with a narcicist!
Please get on this website: leslievernick.com and read her book “The Emotionally Destructive Marriage” and watch all her webinars and videos! She will give you the resolve you need!
Be brave! Drawing a line and sticking by your boundaries is the most loving and healthy thing to do for you and your son as well as your husband. It’s not healthy to hide and pretend and ignore the problems!
Help is out there, but so are those who have awful advice!
I am a Christian and I will be praying for you Shelly! The Lord wants you to heal and He wants you to learn to trust Him!
His grace and peace,
Jen
Most of these monsters will never get help, because they have a God complex of sorts. They think they are perfect. I don’t care for how the article says how much help the narc needs, that they are hurting too ect. They are monsters. They know full well what they are doing and should all eat shit and die.
Hello,
Thank you for your reply. I have no official medical education but I totally agree with what you have to say here. I suffer from allergic reactions to many foods, I have athsma and I suspect a few other auto immune disorders. Living in a high stress environment makes your auto immune system go on high alert. I see that my stress levels effect how sensitive my allergies are. Adrenaline is not meant to pump though you all the time.
Shelly: this article is spot-on. After 16 years your ex-husband knows all of your weak spots. If you are going to be forced to engage with him you need support and preparation.
1. You need a therapist that will help you work through your trauma and begin your healing process. Your ex-husband will not simply roll over, he will turn up the pressure in an attempt to break you and make your acquiesce. The important thing for you keep in mind is that you know this song-and -dance. You know that’ he’s not going to change.
With your therapist you will put a plan together to “deal” with these visits. You can be cordial but you are not required to engage with him beyond necessity as it pertains to co-parenting.
2. An exercise that may be beneficial and a bit triggering is to write down at few experiences with you ex that were particularly abnormal. Write down what happened and how it made you feel. Ask yourself is this the type of relationship that you want to be in? Read this paper every morning… especially on the mornings you are forced to engage with your ex. Why? A part of the reasons victims get re-victimized is because they forget. Keep these experiences top of mind, so you don’t get lost in his trance.
3. “Observe Don’t Absorb” – there is a great psychologist named Ross Rosenberg, he has videos on YouTube and wrote a book the human magnet syndrome… Anyway, one of the principle things he teaches clients is simply to “observe” the narcissist…. don’t “absorb” what they are putting out. See them as a person who is truly psychologically disturbed. Observe how manipulative they are… how every word spoken is meant to obtain something or draw a reaction. When you realize this then you stop “absorbing” the negative energy they put out.
Good luck. Dealing with a narcissist is not easy, but once you develop some resolve and your ex sees you a harder target it may weaken his relsolve a bit. Stay strong!
Thank you. Its been two years and I can just barely start to feel agian. My mother, then my fiance. My fiance managed to physically disable me causing me to barely be able to walk. Im just nowfeeling true anger. The are dangerous. Do not underestimate. Im seeking professional help.
So, I left my narcissist husband in December. We’d been married 16 years and have one son together. I had established no contact initially but because of visitation, that went out the window. Three months later, I find myself agreeing to go to marital counseling with him yet again. We have tried this route before. The result is always the same–the behaviors return. I went to such grave lengths to separate myself from him, utilizing friendships to protect my son and I. I do not desire to go back, too much damage has been done, I need to salvage my son from turning out just like him. And yet, he’s playing on my heart strings as they know how to do knowing I never wanted to be divorced, promising a new reality he cann0ot/will not deliver. But church and society tell you to do everything you can to save a marital union. How do I hold my own, save my son, my relationships with others. He will turn my son against me. Make me look like the bad person who ended it, destroyed our family.
What do you do when NO CONTACT isn’t an option?
shelly
Thanks so much for the article! You are spot on! I plan on bringing this article to my psychologist (once I find one). I worked for a narcissist for 13 years, until I got fired ‘for hurting his feelings’ in a single conversation. I hurt his ego; and although we worked together brilliantly for over a decade, he fired me after a single conversation. I had been stroking his ego consistently for 13 yrs (until one fateful day) like a victim you describe.
I was working 60 hrs/wk to his 35 hrs/wk. One day I reminded him of the promises he made to me (that he broke); promises to replace my assistant he fired 18 months prior. He agreed that he made the promises to replace my assistant (on 5 separate occasions) and agreed that he broke them, but said, “Chris if you ever have a problem, I want you to know my door is always open” … to which I said, “Are you kidding me? I came through your door 5 separate times and told you each time I was working 60 hr weeks and we were short-handed, and now you’re *blaming* me for not telling you *more* times and receiving more of your promises?”. The conversation was matter of fact, and there were no personal insults involved. I just hurt his ego, and he became enraged, and fired me the next day.
This is very much like my story. I feel so buried by the damage a decade later I don’t know if I will ever recover. It was my younger sister though and she targeted me for total annihilation when she had children and was doing hard drugs and I tried to do an intervention. I can’t seem to find any therapist in my area that has any understanding of this kind of thing at all.
Thank you for this article; my mother is a narcissist, and my father had an antisocial personality disorder (I struck parental gold!). The only part I take issue with is this:
“These clients with somatization disorder will typically have visited many doctors in pursuit of effective treatment, and many informed doctors do recognize that often the underlying cause is emotional, and they are then likely to refer the person on to a psychotherapist. Very often the symptoms are cured once the underlying emotional cause is identified, and the repressed memory has a chance to surface in order to be released in the safety of the therapeutic space.”
I’m a nurse, and as a healthcare professional I would recommend researching allostatic load, Adverse Childhood Events, and epigentics (telomere shortening) – which all describe the pathophysiology that occurs to the body due to stress and trauma. While perhaps in the short term somatization may be reversed with psychotherapy (I don’t know what the evidence shows), this is not likely true for long term abuse, and people absolutely can develop illnesses related to their abuse.
Both my sister and I were diagnosed with autoimmune diseases in our late 20s. She has rheumatoid arthritis and I have celiac & hashimotos thyroiditis. There is strong evidence to suggest that trauma and negative stress cause inflammation and alters immune function. Inflammation is known to cause end organ damage (in fact it’s the body’s inflammatory response more than an infection that causes mortality in patients with critical illness, for example).
I worry about this comment because many patients are told that “it’s all in their head” and do not receive the validation they deserve. Worse, they are dismissed by providers as a psych case instead of being properly worked up. Telling an ignorant provider your history of abuse can be used against you, and many of us are fearful of the information in the wrong hands.
My sister had a very straightforward presentation and diagnosis. For me, I had cardiac (syncope, irregular heart beat), neuro (migraines, prolonged vertigo, brain fog, inability to focus or remember), musculoskeletal (joint and back pain and weakness), digestive & metabolic (fatigue, chronic nausea, vomiting, weight changes), dermatological (rashes), and respiratory (shortness of breath and pleuritis) symptoms that impacted my ability to live a normal life. They caused pain, physical and mental impairment for 15 years before someone thought to check me for an autoimmune disease.
Once I was diagnosed and after about 14 months of lifestyle changes and healing my body, I now have ZERO symptoms, but without persistence, luck and resources to find a diagnoses I would have not only continued to live a limited, painful life, but would have progressed to irreversible organ damage. The older one is, or the longer someone goes with an undiagnosed autoimmune disease the higher their mortality at a younger age, and their risk for triggering other autoimmune diseases (I guarantee 1 is enough).
It’s also important to remember that young people have excellent physical coping mechanisms until they abruptly fail. So your body can cope for a long time, but early intervention is key. So definitely find a psychotherapist and when possible get away from the unhealthy person sooner rather than later to stop the progression. But also listen to your body, and don’t settle for dismissive providers. Advocate for yourself (which is VERY hard to do), or be lucky to find someone to advocate for you. It’s exhausting, but worth it. I never realized how limited my life was until I got better.
If you’re having trouble finding out what is “wrong” with you, I recommend seeking a functional medicine provider. They focus on locating the underlying cause and taking a holistic approach to the person, as opposed to only treating symptoms, or looking at body systems in isolation of each other. There are even some practicing in low socioeconomic areas that are becoming knowledgable on the issue, and are correlating a patient’s history of abuse with their current health presentation. There is a better chance that you can trust them with your history of abuse, as they are less likely to dismiss you because of it, and will instead see it as an indicator that there is more to investigate.
The other really important thing is self care. My mother would dismiss it as a luxury and proof that I wasn’t suffering. Bullshit. Taking time to be in nature, making or enjoying arts or sports, socializing and laughing are vital. These cost money but acupuncture, guided imagery (this one can be free), massage, spa treatments, vacations (actual time off) are essential to healing your body. Don’t not treat yourself because you think it’s a luxury. I guarantee healthcare is more expensive to treat than to prevent. You can also get creative in how you pay for it, for example, get a prescription for massage or use flexible spending accounts. I also know these are NOT options available to everyone (our US health system and insurance are unfortunately not designed to prevent disease), but these self care interventions are shown to not only decrease but even reverse the damage to our bodies, which is amazing!
Hi Carla, just from reading your short comment I can tell you that I think your ex husband is a narcissist. Don’t get caught up in the fact that you’re not aware if he hid things around the house or not… that action isn’t what I would describe as “utter extreme” but instead the behaviors you describe his as committing are extreme and textbook narcissist. I mean it’s all in your reply black and white, you could never confront him on his behavior, it was never his fault–always yours, in fact’-his covert abusive tactics were indeed passive aggressive but I suggest you read further. Shahida Arabi’s article “20 Diversion Tactics Malignant Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Psychopaths Use to Silence you.” Should do the trick of figuring out if this applies to him or not. My ex was guilty of every single one.
londiwe, Yes you are Real and Yes you are Right.I have experienced the exact same thing as you and finding a listener and co-victim to walk with you and be on your side is impossible..I am 56 and as I educate myself I find Nobody sees the whole picture..I felt this article or the writer understands our pain
Thank you so much for this post! I am 59 years old now, but did suffer as the victim of my older sister growing up! What made this worse was my mother always stuck up for her! It was always me, the ugly one that caused all the trouble. She, my sister would always friend my friends and turn them against me, she still does this today! Anyway, my point is that I am pretty screwed up because of this. I find it hard to trust anyone or I trust the wrong people. I am paranoid on the most part of everyone!
About 13 years ago, my daughter was talked into going to my sisters to help her with her husband who has suffered a stroke. I was modified and begged her not to go! Of course the whole family turned on me and saw this as a act of hatefulness on my part! I was just trying to protect my child. She was 18 so I couldn’t stop her!
She called me at first quite a lot, but then the calls became less and less till finally, she didn’t call me at all. My sister would talk to me and tell me that my daughter was messed up and it was my fault!! I married a man that was a lot like my sister, very controlling and verbally abusive to me and our kids To make a long story short!! My daughter hated me, wouldn’t talk to me at all. She started calling me by my name and my sister her mom!! My son would never go to her house as he saw that something was wrong with her at a early age. My whole family supported her in this and blamed me for everything!! They to are her victims!
My daughter got away from her about four years ago and is trying to cope with life like I am, we talk all the time and help each other. Our mom is still living at 90 years old and guess who takes care of her most of the time. She still stick up for my sister and says horrible things to me, and won’t talk to her granddaughter cause she left her aunts house.
My older brother died hating me cause of things she told him, my sister that is. That is another scar I will have to live with!! But about six months ago, our mom fell and broke her ankle, this caused a big fight with our other brother and my sister, resulting in her being found out! All of her past lies were revealed!! I got an apology from the entire family, not mom! My mom will attack me or my brother if we say anything about our sister needing help!! It’s really sad that she can’t or won’t see that she needs help.
As I read this I’m still not sure if my ex husband of 13 years was a narcissistic or not. As he never went to the utter extreme of moving things around the house, he did however insist I was crazy for any belief I had he was ever doing something wrong, nothing was ever his fault and I was always crazy. He used to always say I “had to be right” which I never felt was true as relationships are 50/50. I can say without a doubt he was passive aggressive. Idk, I just know he messed me up for a while during the marriage.
If anyone is having a hard time finding a therapist or group support try al Anon groups there world wide and can help a great deal get back in your own circle of life .. Plus I have a feeling that most alcoholics may have narcissist traits..
April,
I am presently in the beginning stage’s of leaving my husband of 30+ years as well. I completely understand your statement about the hugs after being treated so rudely. My husband picks fights, then proceeds to tell me how wrong I am to be angry at his comments and behaviors. After verbally bashing me, and he decides the discussion is over, he acts like that exchange clears the air. He then tells me to stop ruminating on the conversation and move on. “Are you going to be like this for the rest of the day? Get over yourself.” This was/is his go to phrase if I wasn’t cheerful soon enough after his verbal lashing. Of course, this was so confusing to me. How could he be so upbeat after the argument but I feel so awful? Was I not a forgiving person? Am I too sensitive? Am I throwing a fit because I didn’t get my way (being heard or understood)? In the end, I’d rationalize his behavior and move toward him again.
I can’t do this anymore!
Hi, the only real advice I’ve seen other than leave is to become the bigger bully. Throw every single they do back at them, and focus on losing all empathy for them. Once you change your mind so you think of them as a thing that is beneath you, they can’t deal anymore and will leave of their own accord, or adapt. Obviously the victim had to be ready for them to leave at this point.
My husband WAS a narcissist, I suffered for about 2-3 years after I had our child (because I became financially dependent! That’s always where they get you). I’m not a martyr type, but his behaviors were really insidious so it took a while to figure out what was happening. I ended up with cptsd and IBS!! My health is important to me so I really decided in my heart that I no longer cared if he left, that it would be ideal even. That’s an attitude change that you can’t hide, it makes the narcissist so uncomfortable. The real change happened when I decided to turn off my empathy switch for him. I thought of him as a thing, a non-human object that I was innately above (which is how they view their victims!) And I began to have fun with it by sometimes just gaslighting the crap out of him, or calling him out on his behaviors until he had meltdowns then pointing and laughing at him and saying “What are you 12?” I felt like a bad person sometimes but really, when they have NPD they AREN’T actual people, they don’t have a regular human soul so the rules don’t apply. He hasn’t been causing me any problems and we are still together, it’s like a flip switched in his brain – but I had to bully him to get there. Although a warning – my husband is not a violent type, nor is he hyper masculine. If you have a more punchy husband I would recommend just packing up and leaving.
If you’re not willing to leave you have to be willing to be cruel, and if you can’t be cruel then at least just think of them as a gross little THING, not a person. They don’t deserve to be thought of as people until they flip their empathy switch on!!
I hope your sister finds a solution to her situation, my husband is not even on the extreme end of the narcissist spectrum and I could only tolerate 3 years of it before I literally started hallucinating, I feel so bad for people who were stuck in it for the long run!!
Thankyou, your post give validation to my own situation..i too had a therapist recently who wouldn’t give much thought to narcissistic mothers, probably because she had a good relationship with her own mother..I’m now searching for one who has understanding of nm, as i feel its the best thing for me to have a therapist who can ‘connect the dots’.
Thank you for this incredible post. I can relate to absolutely every symptom that you have written here.
I have always `known` that there was something `wrong` but unfortunately I always thought and believed that I was the one who was wrong. I have presented myself to numerous so called professionals for help and I have always come away feeling more blamed than believed nor supported.
I have had a very highly functional False Self which seemed to fool everyone but myself and hence my life has been hell. Whenever I tried to tell anyone how I FELT I was met with disbelief and the attitude that I was getting it wrong.
I have diagnosed myself with all sorts but the professionals that I saw ALWAYS countered that and made me feel even more crazy. Finally you have exonerated me by actually believing me and understanding my issues. I am in therapy ( third time) and although my therapist is lovely and supportive she clearly does not understand NPD and victims thereof. I am the one who has mentioned that I believe that my mother was Narcissistic( she died in January) and interestingly she has never seemed interested in pursuing this line of thought.
Whenever I have presented to the so called helping professions I have come out feeling more judged than supported. I know how I feel and I have ALWAYS known but I have presented extremely well externally but the professionals wouldnt believe me when I said how I present and how I feel are completely incongruent.I have been offered CBT etc which I was saying wouldnt work as long as I dont uncover what was behind my beliefs.My GP told me `not to dwell in the past`. A psychologist said my problem is `low self esteem and self critical attitude`, my therapists have tried to get me to `love myself `. I have NEVER had any of them say ok, what happened to you, what do you need? They ALL have given me the impression that THEY know better and because I am the client I should listen to them. They seemed to miss the point that I am an individual .What I had needed more than anything was someone to take MY side for a change and walk with me through the terrifying business of recovery.
I have had to take time off work and literally isolate myself to force myself to FEEL the awful feelings and terror and trauma that I went through as a child. Finally I can say that I too, am starting to belive myself.
Gaslighting and Cognitive dissonance are the latest aha moments for me and I must say very liberating. I wasnt wrong afterall. I was always told that I think I know better. It turns out that I do. I do know myself and how I feel. I know that I sound Narc myself but I know feelings so well. I just had needed someone, anyone to acknowledge them and validate me. Now I am doing it for myself than ks to posts like yours.
Forever grateful.
Londiwe x
I am reall
As I am reading, like all the readers, I am reading about my life with my husband.
The one sign he had I thought strange when I didn’t know any better was that he would make you hate yourself or feel ashamed then ask you for a hug. The hug was validation for him and made him feel really good about your hurting. Hiding behind his form of being the protector or fixer of all things. Without him life was over.
He still does it with our children that are now adults . The only thing I can’t live with is that I can’t do anything to protect them.
I still love the man that is no longer my husband. I hate what is wrong with him and makes me so sad I can not be in the same room with him.
I spent 30+ years on a relationship that was no relationship at all. That is not love, it is abuse.
I do not let anyone close now and in therapy now.
I don’t ever forget about the hugs.
I think you are absolutely right, the birth order seems to make a big difference. The firstborn often seems to have a closer bond in terms of being victimized and being more attuned to protecting the feelings of the abusive mother, the later children appear often to be more detached and self sufficient, but that isnt to say it is always the case. I have noticed from my own and clients’ ecperienes that there is a lot more pressure put onto the eldest child to take care of the parent and the other siblings so that informs the behaviour patterns from an early age and eats up self esteem.
That’s how I survived too, Adrienne.
It may not be the best path out, but when you’re in the thick of the abuse, backing out is better than nothing. It helped me find enough courage to make the final cut.
A year ago I made a “No Contact Contract” to stop engaging in the drama triangle with my mother and sister. Sometimes I think I miss them, but I know there was never really any love to miss. It was in my imagination. That’s a harsh reality, but full disengagement is the only way to gain perspective.
I’m 56 and still struggle daily – sometimes hourly – with the collective PTSD symptoms from a lifetime of abuse. Wondering if I’ll ever truly understand love or if I’ll ever “feel” peace.
Note to Christine: Your dedication to this research saved my life. Thank you for the blessing you are to me and so many others.
Hope and hugs to those seeking the authentic self and better days ahead.
Hello. I am front the states and I am in a relationship with my husband who has NPD. Ibtoo suffer from NVS, PTSD and depression. I am also Filipino. I’d like to share this with you as I found it just today actually. Maybe it will be of help tobyoh. I wish you well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c6IL8WVyMMs
I know that I’m a victim of NVD…my husband has overt and covert NPD. He has never been physically abusive, but has in every other way. I met him after divorcing my 1st husband, who was a drug induced paranoid schizo with bipolar disease and was abusive in EVERY way. I was recovering and getting my spirit back when there he was…praising and worshipping me, “you are so beautiful! I’m going to marry you one day.” I resisted him for quite a while, but gave in. He was so wonderful and helpful with my house and kids; he was always happy and loving. He opened up my horizons sexually and made me feel like the greatest lover in the world! We moved in together and got married 2 years later. That’s when it all changed. I was not that desirable anymore and started finding porn hidden around the house (a major no no); he lost his job and I took care of him for 2 years and lost my savings (and finding more porn). He wouldn’t touch me or look for a job. When he did work, I found out that he was a regular at a strip club and spent lots of $$ on his fave girl, mind you that we’re still broke. He had torn me down emotionally, financially and physically. I tried to kick him out numerous times, but he promised that he would change…honeymoon phase for a while, then back to the same. I felt so hopeless that I seriously considered suicide several times. I started looking at psych websites to diagnose me, but I found out that I’m not crazy…I’m a victim! He is the one with the disorder! Now that I’m aware of this, I am done with grieving for “what was” and now work on my coping skills. I love him, but not in love with him. He can’t hurt me anymore. When he starts with one of his attitudes, I just walk away “let me know when you feel better”. When he’s in a good mood, I enjoy it when it’s there. I hold him accountable for his actions and finances. I give him very little consideration when planning my day or my time. I do what I want, when I want to. I change my looks and clothing whenever I want and don’t care if he likes it or not! That NPD can’t figure out how he lost his control or what to do to get it back. He looks at me like I’m crazy sometimes, but he’s also jumping through hoops, too because he can’t quite figure out my aloofness! I’ve read up on his undiagnosed condition and see things as they are. He doesn’t realize that the game has changed and I’m now in charge of the rules. So far, so good and my self esteem is mostly back!
Great advice, as having now experienced everything all I have read for the past 3 days is a answer to my prayers and questions and more . 15 years now almost. 8 was like a honeymoon , but looking back I remember the tell tails. The last 7 have deteriorated so profoundly, leaving has been haunting for at least the past 5 years in my mind. Drinking is also in the equation. Thank you, learning how to deal with this is starting to awaken me. I will become a survivor and anticipate to help more.
Hi, I’m in a similar situation. If you want to talk about it, email me at spiritfromshadow@hotmail.com
I’m not too comfortable talking about it in public.
A sure sign would be if the therapist seems to make everything you say somehow relate to th therapist. A sure sign of a narcissist os a lot of sentences beginning with ‘I’. A good therapist only wants to hear your story and thoughts. Another sign would be if the therapist constantly spoke about his/her success in his/her field. Hope that helps.
I have been in the cycle of a victim and a codependent from birth i guess. In my 50 yrs of existence i do have all those symptoms aide effects whatever you can call it. And have been always ends up in a relationship with malignant npd. I have read so much already about npd and victim of npd syndrome. So far this literature is the most accurate to me. It is as if i am personally relating my experiences and showing to me like a movie all that has been gping on in my life all my life. Both my parents and my 2 sibblings are malignant npd. So you can imagine my life has bees and what i have become. 2 yrs ago i finally turned to a psychotherapist that unfortunately i realized was also an npd. And he sexually harassed me with verbal abused when i defended myself. I had no justice eversince. I am from the Philippines. And right now i am again in a relationship whom i thought was finally good for me. Only to find out as time goes by he is a malignant npd.
I do not know anymore how to stop the cycle. Group support is not common here. Very few people understands and believe in this npd thing. I know i need help badly but to whom and how seem hopeless
Three years ago my life got turned upside down. I was happily married with 2 wonderful kids. I was a successful woman in my career. My life couldn’t have been better, but like most marriages after so many years you get in a routine and day to day life becomes mundane, and you go through the motions of a comfortable life. I love my husband he is an amazing man, great dad and wonderful provider. Like many other marriages when there is a weak spot the devil decides to take advantage. That is what happened with us and I will share my story as to help get the word that people like I encountered actually do exist and not just on dateline! We met during sporting events as our kids are friends and play on a team together. He swooped in and started with a simple text then it went deeper real fast. He let me think we had so much in common and then the sex started and I was convinced he was the one I had been missing and we were destined to be together. WRONG!!! The nightmare began! I had read about narcissistic people and have a dad that’s one but never have I ever endured the pain that was thrown at me with this one. People that knew him warned me..stay away from him he’s a womanizer and a player. He chases sex and money he’s no good. I’m stubborn and have to figure things out the hard way, and boy did I ever! Once he knew he had me and could trust me, the antagonizing behavior and passive aggressiveness began. I almost feel like he was laughing at me and what my family was going through. Like he was to be revered for getting a successful, popular, married woman. He would disappear and leave me hanging only to return and want to see me always on his terms. He had to be in control and well I guess so he wanted to make sure that all of his supply never crossed paths or figured him out. Every time I would go running and the cycle continued. I put my family through hell! Yet through it all my husband remained there loving me. I tried to push him away because I was convinced I was going to be with the evil man wreaking havoc on our lives. It kept going on and then one day a woman that I was told he was seeing by several friends(but he claimed they were just friends and she wasn’t his type) contacted me. We compared stories and wow, they were one in the same. We confronted him and because she had more to offer him monetarily he gave me the old narcissist discard. When I confronted him he turned it around on me like I was the bad one for telling her anything and for outing him to my husband(whom he befriended so he and I could see each other more.. that should have been a sign but he mad me think it was ok). I was suddenly the bad guy. He was convinced I was running my mouth about him and continued to bash me and send me threatening emails to sue me for running my mouth about him. I was in shock. How could this man that was once so caring and sweet be this person be satan himself? The truth is that nice person never existed, the evil man he was showing me was his true self. He feels like everyone is out to get him and he’s entitled to everything. He has no boundaries and rules do not apply to him at all. I am just so mad at myself for being blind to it all. He manipulated me into a lot of things that no normal person would ever do. It’s sickening. Of course the other woman he discarded me for she is still in denial and very vulnerable and will continue being his supply. I feel sorry for her, but I’m glad it’s not me anymore. I was sad at first and even made a monumental fool of myself trying to get him back because I do not like the silent treatment and he’s the master of it. The second he knew I was onto him was the second that narcissistic rage took place. I will never understand how someone can be so evil yet be so fake in public making everyone think he is this awesome father of the year, who cares and has a big heart. He doesn’t care about anyone but himself.
Great article! Describes my whole life for almost six years. Unfortunately I still have to see and have contact with the NARC as is my sons father. It worries me what kind of impact his issues will have on my son growing up, but luckily they only spend concentrated time together once a month…
Even now, when he calls my son, he is asking him ‘what did you have for dinner? When is your mother taking you to the dentist/drs? Did you have a shower today?’ as if to put in MY mind that I am neglecting my own child!! So SO insidious! For so long I couldn’t put my finger on what was wrong – and the GASLIGHTING!! Oh my goodness! He is truly an expert.
A year on from the break-up, I am so much stronger. I have started doing the things he held me back from doing. I went back to church, and God is restoring my whole life.. Sadly it maybe too late for my business, after losing so much of my confidence. I really was a broken person – didn’t even recognize my self. Totally lost my ‘voice’ of opinion, panic attacks all the time… it all came to a head after I took neuro-psychological counselling for my MS, as I thought my cognitive function was failing… turns out I was in total distress from being manipulated for so many years! My brain had literally given up! scary… And yes, my boundary function was weak. I was looking to be co-dependent. the Narcs favourite!… wow, just wow! I didn’t even realise people could actually behave like this – he used to be sooo happy when he had emotionally beaten me into a corner and I was distraught. Now it all makes sense – I didn’t believe it was possible, in my head I thought I had imagined it!
A truly helpful article that so many people will gain from. thank you.
teresa rae! thank you. yours is the only post that seems to offer concreteadvice about how to face these people and maintain sanity.
my sister has recognized for years that she is a victim and reads extensively about perverse narcissistic behavior. Yet the only advice she finds is that the only way to cope is by leaving the narcissist. They have been together for 40 years. She does not feel that she has either the material or emotional resources necessary to leave. Of course, this is part of what the perpetrators do: render their victims feeling powerless. She is caught in the vicious cycle of self-destructive behavior which in turn fuels his attack mechanisms. She does not want to leave. Surely there must be some technique or strategy for countering the absurd verbal attacks? Some kind of come-back to make the Perverse Narcissist stop in his tracks? Even if he is incapable of empathy or shame, something that confounds his arguments so that he backs off?
She is in France. Can you direct her to resources, on line or in her surroundings, that can help her equip her own arsenal to defend herself against his onslaught?
THANKS!
Hi Jane,
Isn’t it sad. I read your comment and understand and know your experience all too well. I have good days and bad. The bad days last for a period of time – like taking a knock that takes time to recover from. I often think who would I be or have become without my fathers conditioning? He is still alive and it is only now, aged 39 that I realise I won’t be free of the abuse until he is dead. I NEVER thought for a second that I would EVER say such a thing but I truly don’t see any other way out. Of course the damage will continue to dictate my existence long after he’s gone but I am assuming relief will come from no longer having to “fire-fight” against the unrelenting manipulation and abuse. It’s a small mercy but I’ll take it.
My experience right now is probably the most challenging it has ever been. I’m expecting my first child and she will be the first grandchild in the family, due in 4 weeks time. I already have ferocious protection instincts kicking in and feel so terrified at the same time. He will not do to her what he has done to me. I have scenarios rattling around my head constantly of how I would deal with situations should they arise. In the mean time, these thoughts distract me from the most precious gift and experience I could ever have dreamt of. His effect has certainly made me feel undeserving of such a gift which has been a challenge all on its own. Again, I try to remind myself of the beauty of every moment, every movement from her, every kick and the moment I finally get to meet her. She fills me with so much love already.
Thank you for putting yourself out there and sharing your experience. You’ve helped me to combat that feeling of being insane. Thank you!
Be safe, be well,
With love, Sian x
I lived with a narcissistic mother for 55 years and was never able to escape her for a moment. Once she passed, I knew I was free and never spoke of her again but the damage is done. An entire life of extreme low self esteem, bad choices, self punishment, self hatred, anxiety and extreme anger that led to the deepest of depressions. I have been diagnosed with anxiety and depression and will probably never be able to go without medication. Her favourite punishment was to try and convince me that I was insane and if it wasn’t for her, I would probably be incarcerated. Also she explained how useless I was and that she couldn’t understand how I could be so incompetent. She loved me most when I was in trouble, one way or another. If I showed any joy or satisfaction, she became furious and quite evil.
I am very happily married with beautiful adult children but I will always be damaged and unpredictable. The smallest problem and I’m totally disheartened and lost. I work on my health and my sense of joy everyday and I am definitely experiencing a better life. The one good thing to come from this is I appreciate every single moment I am not unhappy. My sympathy to those youngsters who still live with this. It’s inescapable. I tried everything.. I really thought she would outlive me…
Thank you for this read. I’m a “trained” victim from my mother – I thought my recent relationship I just ended was my savior (but don’t I always think that)! Wrong – he was in competition with my other family narcissists. Effectively isolated me, ruled me, stole from me, used me, and abused me. I’m needing anti-depression/sleep meds and weekly therapist now and feeling much better:-) I’m bringing this article to them – there is a real victims unit here. The thought of really shaking this syndrome for good is daunting as, for me, ingrained in my character I’m afraid. I don’t conduct myself as a victim — but, clearly, I need to absorb this information and thoroughly understand it to avoid being a target once more.
Hello. Thank you for your website. I am aware of the roles (golden child, scapegoat, etc.) that different offspring victims play with a narcissistic mother, but I am wondering how birth order comes into play in the victimization effects. In my personal experience, as a first born daughter of a maternal narcissist, I have seen the effects onto the 3 offspring victims as quite varied. I suspect that the first born’s experience of degree might be heightened due to a closer bond or different relationship with the mother, than other birth orders may have experienced. In other words, my sisters experience seem different, and possibly to a lesser degree. My youngest sister seems to seperate with more ease than I do, with much less of a struggle. I do understand that people experience and remember things differently, even exposed to the same situation. I also think that it isn’t a coincidence that all 3 of us adults intentionally do not have children. After all, if being a mother is such a stressful burden, why choose to experience the same distress ourselves? Your comments are appreciated!
Hi, @May
I believe you can indeed be in a relationship for a long time before the symptoms emerge. It happened to me – something like 3 years. The way I understood it is that for the longest time, I remained defending the abuser and believing that they could be a genuine person, but that there was this or that valid excuse for the events which took place, (including accepting that maybe I was somehow to blame, under the pressure of gaslighting and other tactics). Additionally, the disordered dynamic was heavily acting-in (self-harm, self-criticism), until she discovered that acting out (abusing and projecting onto me) was another effective way to soothe herself. When I was faced with the acting out abuse, and starting to notice and label it, and having recently visibly cut ties with a Narc parent, it became clear that I couldn’t be relied on for pure ‘narcissistic supply’ (because the mask had started to slip in ways that couldn’t be covered up any longer). So from that moment on, the abuser had literally no time for me except in terms of my potential for financial and logistical exploitation. They could no longer expect me to idealise them without question, so they ceased to pretend treating me as a person. I therefore never received any positive regard, support or attention, and only experienced the ‘promise’ of future attention if I would do this, or that or the other for them. My tasks included ‘never thinking’ (N.B. not even ‘never saying’), that they were behaving badly, regardless what they actually did, paying them money, taking them on holidays, staying in childcare 6 nights a week while they went out drinking. The so-called things I could do to recover the relationship were of course never good enough. She had no interest in recovering the relationship, only wringing the last drops of control and manipulation to serve her whims before she decided she needed another victim. Faced with her final ultimatums I was literally in a heap on the floor crying yet so deeply aware of her contempt and lack of regard for my misery as if I wasn’t human. ‘Invasion of the body snatchers’ is a good model – someone that looks exactly like a person so long as it suits their purposes, but is actually without a soul. Look forward to your Narc leaving you and telling them you’re actually glad not to live with their emotional abuse any longer.
The only thing you can probably do is just take a risk. All of as have some kind of narcissistic traits to some extent and it is normal. For building up a new relationship you shouldn’t be afraid to become vulnerable as well as seeing your potential partner’s vulnerabilities which he isn’t afraid to show, at least after a while. No one is perfect and I doubt that you will be able to find a partner that is 100% narcissistic trait free. Also the experience of living with a narcissist should help you identify a person who has such disorder much sooner before you became emotionally attached so that is probably a positive thing.
One of the best articles I have read on the subject. You have hit the nail on the head with therapists not knowing how to react with the victims of narcissistic abuse. It’s very complex. I attract alot of narcissistic people as I was groomed by one but I suddenly snapped out of it one day realising I was not born to suffer and nobody has the right to undermine me or make me second guess myself. I still have days where I feel crap and depressed but only I can pull myself out. I have maintained limited contact with my narc mother and I tend to challenge everything she says. She gives me the silent treatment or rages but I shut her down. I’ve just stopped caring, I’ve accepted I never had a nurturing mother. With toxic relationship gone I focus on healing myself, it’s tough, I can’t trust people and make friends with female narcs but I’m starting to see patterns and I’m much happier. Don’t let anyone ever pull you down, you are worth it, challenge people who try to control you and be your own best friend.
Laura,
Please don’t talk down to yourself like that! I’m sure many other wonderful men will want to be with you! The important thing right now is recovery and continuing to be strong and have compassion for yourself. Someone else is bound to see your amazing traits, and besides, you never know what they have been through as well. Try to stay hopeful & positive. Best wishes,
Eve
Hi May, I read your post and resonated with you, I also had an 8 year relationship (7 years married), with a person who I have identified as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD); I also think that they have NPD comorbid with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), and also with elements of a potential third disorder, as part of a trio.
I am about 6 weeks on from researching NPD, and then having someone walk through my head switching on all of the lights in there; the revelation of what my Wife is, is akin to realising that you have been living with a Stalker, my World went dark around the edges. These disordered people are TOXIC. I have left my Wife, and have gone NO CONTACT.
NPD’s very rarely seek help for what is their real and actual problem (if they do present to therapists), then when they present to therapists, they verbalise other issues, this article deals with this subject already, and this article is one of the best and most succinct pieces that I have so far read abut NPD. Although this is the first time that I have encountered the term Narcissistic Victim Syndrome (NVS), it is now common to see the term Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome. I think NVS fits well in trying to focus on the victim and how they can be helped to survivor, recover and thrive. And YOU CAN thrive after Narcissistic Abuse, with the right support.
I am sorry to be so blunt with you May, but if your boyfriend is a full blown Narcissist, in that he is identifying as having NPD, then he will have had this disorder in all of the 8 years and way back to childhood. If you instinctively ever thought ‘things were not right’ over the years, then it is very likely that your instinct was right, as our subconscious brains are try to warn us.
This is hard to relay to a victim of a NARC, but these NPD’s do not carry out this abuse of their victims as a personal vendetta, it is the way these NARC’S are programmed, it would not matter who you were, nor how perfect you were, they would function exactly as programmed, and do the same to whoever they were with. THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU HAVE DONE WRONG. The one aside to this, is that NARC’s generally target victims, in simple terms they seek out EMPATHETIC people. I believe that I have also been a victim of a NARC in a previous relationship, and that this latest realisation will motivate me to deal with my own childhood traumas, and lead me onto a much more fulfilled life. You will see the lables such as Co Dependent and Enabler bandied about, reserve judgement on the Co Dependent label until you gain more knowledge of NPD.
May, YOU ARE NOT CRAZY, these NARC’s Gaslight you, they crudely confuse you, making you question yourself, and doubt yourself. The causes of the NARC’s behaviour and actions, affects the Amygdala and Hippocampus areas of the brain, and can be reversed with knowledge, help and support.
Your brain may be racing like a hamster on a wheel, try and calm down, there are support groups try:
http://www.thelondonnarcissisticsupportgroup.co.uk/volunteer
http://coda.org/ (Reserve judgement as I said on this, but this might be a useful resource)
http://www.spartanlifecoach.com
http://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/malignant-self-love/narcissism-narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd/
May, believe me that there is an amazing future free from NARC abuse awaiting you; there will be tough times and emotional flashbacks, but all of the confusion and heartache will not last, and you will know that this toxic relationship did you a favour, and showed you a way to great happiness and fulfilment.
Know & Understand what you are dealing with, Survive, Recover and THRIVE…..
I’m on the journey with you, and so are a many other people…..
Matt
I figured out awhile ago that my boyfriend of 8 years is a narcissist. I know, deep in my heart I know, but I can’t bring myself to leave. The first 7 years we had little issues. The last year has been pure hell. I keep convincing myself he couldn’t have hidden his narcissistic side for 7 years…could he? Can idealization phase last 7 years before devaluation? Is he really narcissistic or is it something else? Or could a traumatic event a year ago trigger a dormant narcisist? Looking back even though we had little issues, I can still see the narcissist tactics being used on me. It all ads up but how did everything seem normal for 7 years? I can’t make myself leave even though I know I should because I don’t want to believe that my soulmate of 7 years disappeared a year ago and is never coming back. I’m so lost and confused and starting to believe I really am crazy, even though I know Im not and I’m right about him being a narcissist. It’s complete and utter emotional torture.
I am actually going through this right now myself. I have been in relationships before and even bad ones where they cheated and lied but i have never gone through what i have been through with this woman. I am 33 years old and i was miserable with her couldnt trust her she lied cheated would break up with me on random occasions she would just call me up at work and say hey ive been thinking i dont really love you and i dont really miss you when youre gone. Then days later she would come to me crying asking me to take her back how her heart is open now and needs me in her life. I became someone i have never been and never understood how people could get that way but as i continued into the tunnel of misery it was like i was on the outside looking in. Knowing she was a cheater a lier and had earlier been diagnosed with NPD. I kept tricking myself saying well shes going through a divorce and she wouldnt treat me badly because im here for her through everything she needs me there for. I kept saying im different even though she had lied and cheated on her husband several times that she will admit too. She would reel me back in crying telling everything i needed to hear to believe her and of coarse lure me in with love and sex then it could be within days or within weeks but she would eventually turn on me. She blamed me for her behavior saying i wasnt giving her enough space and when i would give her space i got yelled at because she needed help with things and was overwhelmed. I became miserble with fear of leaving the fear of losing her the only person that could love me. This beautiful woman that chose to be with me but ive never been through something like this before. Its brainwashing. Anyone else i have been in a relationship with i would have left in a heart beat for doing any of some of the stuff she pulled but it was like i was stuck. It didnt help that my mom whom i was very close with passed away during the start of this. Which she was not there for she would actually distance herself and grow cold if i needed her like if she felt i really needed her support not only would she grow cold but also become frustrated and angry towards me. It was a year after my mom passed away and i had been talking about how the year coming up is going to be hard she walked in on me crying a couple days before and told me if i was going to feel that way maybe i should delete her messages. Now im not saying holding on to her messages is healthy for me but during this time it just seemed very unempathetic then she ended up fighting with me instead of being there for me. She kicked me out of her house and said she needed space. Then during an arguement one time with angry words flying around she used my mom being passed away to taunt me and “make a point”. I am 3 weeks free of her as of right now and i feel the worst i have ever in my life i became someone who wasnt me i was angry negative violent never hit her or hurt her but i cracked a door by hitting it which never in my life have I done something like that i was worried constantly when the next outburst or breakup would be wondering when she was going to find someone else to start talking to and cheat again it was pure misery but i tricked my self a lot thinking it was me it was my fault. I remember so many arguments trying to logically explain and she would say that she would have memory loss was always scattered and she would chop up old memories making things my fault forgetting anything she may have did well at least she said she forgot it or didnt register what she had done or was doing. She justified everything and began to hate and resent me blaming me for the reason she treated me the way she did. Everything she did was justified and i was to blame. I am depressed now hurt sick close to suicidal i cant shake it. Just the betrayal and lies without any care. i tried to say things to hurt her as much as i could and i knew it had no effect on her i could see it or hear it in her voice just hatred or business.
Cognitive dissonance is the name given to how we keep going despite being in a “war zone” of such abuse we’re too frightened to leave. We have 3 responses to fear, is how I explain it…fight, flight, or freeze. If you’re frozen, you’re using cognitive dissonance, explained better by the writer in the accompanying post. The closer you get to leaving, the worse the abuse gets, so the more likely you’ll freeze. If you do manage to leave, be aware those with Narcisstic Personality Disorder can become stalkers, and track you down, and, because of fear, and cognitive dissonance, which is the ability to hold competing thoughts simultaneously, you are at risk of allowing yourself to succumb to the romantic and kind overtures of the narcissist, who, once they’ve got you hooked again, will build up into an abusive cycle again. Cognitive dissonance is why it takes women up to seven goes to leave an abusive partner, especially one with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My therapist advised me never to confront any of the abusers I have encountered that they have NPD. Why? They are on the aggressive scale that psychopaths and sociopaths are on. Best thing to do when you do get out is to run. Head for another town, another state, another country. They are relentless and, in my experience, they become stalkers. Recovering from NPD Victim Syndrome is huge. Thank you for this article.
This…. this explains my entire life. I had a hard time reading this. I found myself dissociating 🙁 but it makes painful sense 🙁
I am no therapist but I can tell you how I’ve survived. Stop being real with them. Stop trying to make them understand that they are hurting you. (They know! They are doing it on purpose but they will never admit that to you) You can only show then fake happiness and enchantment with every thing they do. Meanwhile come up with some reason why it is to their “benefit” that you start staying away more and more. The more you stay away, the more you start coming back to yourself. And while you are doing this, you are compiling your resources to eventually leave. But they CANNOT know. They cannot know until you are gone and unfindable and don’t come back.
You have just described my 25 year long marriage. He has been gone for almost 3 years and the worst thing that could have happened to me (divorce) was the best thing that could have happened to me. I am free. Working on healing. Still doubt that anyone is going to want me. I feel used and discarded. I am a very confident successful woman, but he could reduce me to a babbling idiot that doubted her every decision.
Hi, first of all, thanks for the information…
I know recognize me self as a “victim”
my victimizers… make me believe I was even the narcissist’s one…
My short history is that my father beat me so hard with his fireman’s belt… since I was 3… because I didn’t do my homework and stuff like that… I’m kind of a nerd with ADHD attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, love to read… and my father hate it… is more kind of outdoors… sometimes he didn’t even understand what I was talking about hahaha (I end writing this text and return to share this, know I feel a little better…)
my mother had to cure my back lashes… (because I talked smart… maby) and I couldn’t sleep on my back’s… (she uses merthiolate… with the time I stop feeling the physical pain…)
with the time also… when he arrives home I took his hand and ask him to hit me because I deserve it… and my uncles have this as a humorous anecdote… (yes he did in family reunions (he took me at the garage… with his belt…) and my family did nothing!) I’ve been the bad daughter and family member since then… and my mother was so afraid of him also… he start beating us (me and my little brother) so I became the one that stand between them and my brother… with the time I can’t protect my brother from my mom and he hate me for that… my father was a fireman and then and then airplane pilot… so my mom beat us diary and my father each ten days very hard… so I focused on that… well
your information is eye opening
I cried when I saw my self on each of the symptoms… each of them… wow
I never understand my self… doctors (for my huge somatized problems), friends, family, boyfriends… so weird stuff has happen to me…
but I can see clearly now, I feel very lucky to find your web…
I’m not crazy, I feel that I can do something know, because I now know what happened to me
I’m not selfish, sociopath or had social phobia… daddy issues… this is the root!
when a psychiatrist told me I wasn’t depressed… give me hope… but then what I have?
I’m not guilt of everything that happen to me!
wow
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write and study this
I still have to see my ex because we have a daughter together. To keep myself safe I keep diaries. If I think I’m losing it I can check and see. Do not let them know about any diaries, if found they will use it against you.
Jade, I cried as I read your post. I am just now discovering that this is what I have been dealing with in my alcoholic husband of 30 years. I relate my discovery of this to the current 2016 presidential election campaign. I have a great disgust for Trump. An lately have been able to compare Trump’s personality we see on TV to how my husband behaves.
So how does one interact with the narcissist in a way to minimize the abuse? There is no question that this article fits to a “T”. But still being stuck in the relationship, how does the victim respond to the abusive control, blame, criticism etc. to turn it around on the abuser? Obviously the solution is to get out of the relationship but that isnt always possible.
Hey, I just wanted to say that the easiest way to repel narcissists is to BE YOU unapologetically. Speak your mind,but first find your voice again. I have learned to do so by doing inner child work, and I seek to become the role model for people like me who were inabusive situations growing up.
Why am I a valid person to be giving this advice? My father was a narcissist, and I have somehow managed to avoid attracting a narcissist in my romantic life. I believe i may have in the past, but I never stuck around long enough to get any serious emotional scars.
Now, I can easily spot a narcissist because they HATE me and it doesn’t take long for them to start actively trying to ruin my life (haha). I thought this was a curse, but its actually been a blessing now that I see what a huge favor this is doing me in the long term.
Nobody. Is perfect. Nobody. So the key for me is just being real about myself. Seeing my flaws. Laughing at myself. Laughing at the narcissist (remove yourself from your story and the events that play out are actually quite shocking)
It is okay to be feeling the way you are feeling. You feel that way for a reason. Don’t answer to anyone besides yourself. I know this might sound likea recipe to become a narcissist yourself but I trust that you value the relationships you have with people who are close to you, and that you wouldn’t suddenly flip and start devaluing their perspective if they are strong enough to open up to you.
This is a calling to live for yourself and start taking your needs seriously. Emotional needs are just as important as physical needs!
Don’t be afraid to be vulnerable to people you trust (who have proven they can be trusted). I think this is what ultimately scares narcs away from me. Since they project themselves onto others, they will think that you are being vulnerable just to get attention but you don’t actually feel hurt. Narcs don’t feel emotion, they have disconnected with their ability to feel a long time ago and so they literally can’t understand the concept of your pain. They only understand manipulation and so they will start o despise you very quickly.
The narcissistic people show their true colors eventually and will usually start subtly bullying you, then outright bullying you. Call the out on their bullshit, and you will find many other people will come to you with their own stories of abuse from the same person. Become friends with these people because you will be able to relate under this uniting factor.
Know that the truth reveals itself eventually. There area million ways to lie but only one truth. Rather than protect ourselves from external circumstances, just stay true to yourself and trust that eventually it will be revealed. I know it can be so painful to have the illusion shattered, to realize the person you loved wasn’t who you thought they were. But we all experience pain. Take care of yourself. Nurture yourself. And soon, you will be strong again.
Bridgette–I am the same. My ex is targeting me worse than before the divorce. I feel that confusion and know what it feels like to feel like my mind is not my own. They get inside of you and your mind and they leave you unable to function while they happily move on. They damage every part if you and most therapists are not equipped to recognize or manage this condition. It responds very differently than other conditions. If you are just treated for depression of anxiety—you can’t get better because the underlying cause isn’t addressed. I, too, was once successful and happy. Now I am a mess and struggling just to survive. He loves that I have lost my control over my life. Anxiety, flashbacks, and uncertainty abound. He blames it all on me being a “mentally ill” person and bases that ‘diagnosis’ on the fact that I have some environmental sensitivities that he claims are ‘mental illnesses’. He has destroyed my name and my credibility with his lies and manipulations of others. The world thinks he is a caring and wonderful dad while I am a crazy mess. The truth is that he is a horrible father and an abuser–but nobody will ever know that. He did what he did to me to another whole family but they escaped his wrath as he found me and moved on. This time–although he has yet another victim—he refuses to let go of the children or me and constantly finds ways to hurt them covertly and to discredit me. I understand what you are saying perfectly unfortunately.
There are good people in the world Fred,… I know that because I am a Normal , kind person with empathy.
I understand how you feel though , I was in a narcissistic marriage for 15 years , and only got the courage to leave when it became dangerous for me to stay . After 5 years of being single , I decided to try again , and met , what I thought , was a lovely man. Just realised Today , that I am being drawn in again by another narcissist ( it’s taken me 5 months to realise )… For me , it felt normal again , to be emptionally abused . It’s a horrible feeling
I recently discovered this term and when I read about the pattern that exists when one is in a relationship with a narcissist and it fit my girlfriend now x to a T, I am still in the throws of suffering largely because when she left she almost immediately filed for a restraining order. In the interim between her filing and my actually being served (which is the first I learned of it) she came over (we had been living together for over 1 year) I helped her move kissed, talked about the possibility of reconciliation, and so I was floored when I read her reasons for asking for the protective order which were all made up. I could prove that she was lying but due largely to the bias that exists against the “abuser” I was admonished, reprimanded and threatened by the court. I couldn’t imagine what I had done, I knew not what was in her filing but was there something about me that made her react this way? She allowed me to believe that everything about her leaving was my fault though she provided no specifics.
She suffered a great deal of abuse as a child and another 9 years as an adult with a registered sex offender (who she would always defend and even said I was worse than). There are worse things that I choose not to discuss because they have put me in danger and after reading this I see why. I have threatened those very things that they will defend and seek to protect. She gave a date for when we broke up (news to me) and had a new victim within hours. In actuality she had him lined up and waiting (not so much waiting I think). To defend against allegations I had to go back through texts and calls, etc, and I was shocked at what I realized when looking at everything in context. I was in denial and now I want to just stop the pain and distrust I feel for everything. I have been thinking about suicide because I have a heart condition that threatens my life anyway and I don’t think at my age I will ever be a healthy partner again. It was helpful to see this all laid out, It eased my concern for my sanity but it doesn’t change the facts. In all likelihood my mother is a narcissist and she primed me to be attracted to a string of them though each partner exhibits darker behavior than their predecessor. After this one the next is likely a murderess so I am quitting while I still have a head
Sorry to hear your pain and challenge of getting back, to the strong, capable, independent woman you once were. Where are you located?? A good therapist is essential. I am a therapist and a survivor of a few narcissist’s in my life. I would encourage you to look into hypno-therapy, especially heart-centered hypnotherapy. It is amazingly healing!
Keep breathing and stay strong!
I stopped readying after I saw the part about having empathy for the narcissist as well. They may have abuse in their childhood but that will never ever excuse the destruction the cause to multiple lives in their lifetime. They are empty inside and will never seek help because they do not believe there is anything wrong with them. People who have no feelings and refuse to fix their behavior will never be deserving of anyone’s compassion. Not mention that empathy to their abuse will only open you to be manipulated and abused by them.
Mary Allen~ I am so sorry for your suffering. I do hope since you have found this website that you see things more clearly and are seeking help to recover from this debilitating situation to which I applaud your surviving all these years. I can only imagine how it feels to watch your daughter to follow in Narcissistic footsteps. I to have been involved for 20 years with one. I know his background and have learned to stand my ground thru articles like this and prayer. I see the same things manifest in my oldest son, 16. I intend to do research on how to deal with these Narcissists with compassion and understanding without self harm. I do hope you get help in coping. Your a woman. A creation of God. You made babies inside your body and you have so much worth. You are worthy of love and admiration from yourself. Love yourself, Mary. Your true self is not dependent on what other people think of you. You are strong and need to believe you are important.
My boyfriend is a narcissis and his Mother is too. He excelled in school and sports to become the “perfect” child to keep her off his back. He tries to control me constantly and calls me names. The last time he called me a name I walked out. He since has told me he doesn’t care about my feelings and to stop being an a$$hole. I think we’re broke up because it’s been 3 weeks and he hasn’t apologized. I can’t do this dance anymore even if he did but my soul seems to crave it and the rejection hurts tremendously. We’ve been together 6 yrs and we are both in our 50’s. It’s been a perfect storm of his emotionally abused childhood and my sexually abused childhood by a step father. All these articles are great in identifying the issue. How do I move on though and heal?
Wow….Bridgette…I was starting to feel the same way. I see red flags in who I am dating and don’t trust my own instincts anymore. I know that we might tend to pick the same kind of men….and so that is one alert. And in addition,….we are targets if we are nice, and empaths. So they can sniff us out…and don’t even realize it.
I hope my comment to John are moderated. I was a flying monkey and latterly a victim. My neighbour of 16 years has shown all the traits of a narcissist. I am her 5th victim. I am in the isolation/silence phase. She has cleverly cut me off from all mutual contacts. I didn’t want to divulge my status ….I am not ready to eloquently put it across to you guys. I really just wanted to support John and wish him well.
You are in no way responsible for those PAST times. Try to think about yourself now….go beyond those people who so hurt you. Rise up and live again. You are definitely worth it.
Thank you for writing this… I feel I’m in the same boat, or was. I’m watching myself sabotage (what’s probably?) a great relationship with a good man because I’m so “once bitten twice shy” about allowing myself to become emotionally attached again. I’m independent and strong again now, but feel like I couldn’t be myself in a relationship, and I hurt this man who loves me dearly and push him away to be alone than lose myself again.
I married a narcissist had two kids with him and lived with his parents our whole marriage. His mother was worse then him. She abused me in very strange ways. I was 17 when we met. My kids are grown now and my grown daughter is worse then both of them. She has abused me so much and continues to this day to abuse me. I would have to say victim for sure for 36 years now.
I need help getting my son from his sociopathic mother who’s holding him back a year now and has been playing her new target for months. No one believes me cause I’m alone in the place her family lives. I don’t know what to do but I can’t let her destroy our son and another good father
I wish I could find a therapist who knew about narcissists, etc. I’m tired of it always being “yes, you were hurt..” – No! I wasn’t JUST “hurt”. My mind is not my own anymore. I was a strong, capable, independent, opinionated woman. What happened to that woman!? How? I feel like such a basket-case. I can’t differentiate normal human behavior from narcissistic behavior. Everything is a red flag. I know that EVERYONE cannot be a narcissist. Yet, everyone I date seems to be a narcissist. I take my questions to the narcissist support group… but, they are all like me and see red flags in everything. How do I get to where I can distinguish reality from illusion!? I’m drowning.
Thank you, Christine and Shahida Arabi, for the life-saving work you are doing for victims of emotional abuse. I truly dislike identifying as a victim. However, I believe it is part of the recovery process to admit to being part of such a macabre dance. I have been with my abuser/husband since the age of 14. He was 16 when we met. I was stupid, in love and, oh, so young. I am now 62 and recently came to the realization that I have wasted 48 years of my life, he never loved me and every breakdown and crisis I experienced now has an explanation. Now that I know what I’m working with, I am better able to deal with it. I also have a fabulous therapist. She knows exactly what I’m talking about and has called him a “mean and nasty abusive man.” It was wonderful to hear those words. He is such a good actor with everyone outside the family. The one girlfriend I shared with, outright just doesn’t believe me. As I say, I now know what I’m working with. I read, read and read some more and strive to come out of this a whole person. I am much smarter than he is and will be OK. I call myself a phoenix because I will rise again!
I seem to recall that in her book _Trapped in the Mirror_, Elan Golomb talks about it… about how narcissistic parents will expect their kids, or at least some of them, to excel so as to be good reflections on their parents, and the kids feel compelled to do so. The parents might selectively label one child the Black Sheep, onto whom they project their own negative traits, and one the Golden Boy/Girl, on whom they load high expectations. It’s bad for all the kids, of course. I’m looking for more about this myself. There also might be something about it in _Will I Ever Be Good Enough?_ by Karyl McBride (haven’t read it yet).
Hi Karen, No I have not ……….but sounds really interesting research for the future. Christine
Christine, I am curious as to whether you’ve done research on overachievement as a sequela to narcissistic victimization by a parent. Any insights?
TEARS STREAMING DOWN MY FACE!!!!! THIS HAPPENED TO ME!
When he found out that I had uncovered what a fake he relay was; then the full force of his ‘gaslighting”; attempts at fiscal control, attempts to penetrate any support I had, attending events I went to, it was like an all out attempt to destroy me. The rage at loosing his ”supply” looked like the tantrum of a dangerous animal who treated my ”downfall” as a full time job. I have drug addiction problems and self esteem problems; but they are mine, they belong to me. I realize that not having a ”supply” for him is worse than drug addiction. What I wonder is did he ever succeed in ‘taking a life” by that I mean destroy an individual to suicide or similar. His desire to have a real life ‘snuff movie” he controlled was his ultimate kick. I have no idea where he is, and rarely think about him, I just don’t doubt he would abuse immediately, maybe he has another victim.
WOW. Thank you for the BEST articles on NPD and NVS I have encountered. My father had NPD and was an alcoholic. My mother mostly likely had borderline PD and was a hoarder. Both were physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive, but in different ways. My father finally physically abandoned us. I was also sexually abused at 4 by a “family friend.” For years I stuffed everything down — it was too painful, and I had to function! Now, decades later, it is bubbling back up and I have begun remembering. All I do is cry — cry from the painful memories; cry for my mother’s tragic life;cry because I feel irreparably broken, guilty, ashamed, and afraid. I have complex PTSD, anxiety, depression. I am receiving EMDR for specific traumas, which has helped. So, what’s next? These were my parents, so there are decades of wounds. Do I need to heal the inner child?: Hypnosis? BTW, I am not suicidal — just overwhelmed by emotion. Thank you.
Well, i am beside myself. Thank you. Finally. I feel so validated and ANGRY … and so sad I am crying. Sometimes I hate her. You are so kind to the narcissist while at the same time explaining this syndrome I’ve never even heard of before until a half an hour ago when I started reading your article. I just discovered this summer that I am a daughter of a narcissistic mother and father and ex-husband number one and ex husband number two and several other people in my life that have victimized me! I figured out 27 years old that I myself perpetuated my own victimization from my childhood throughout my adulthood. And then I continue to make incredibly unhealthy, bad choices. Co-dependency we usually hear about is related to alcoholism while that was in my childhood home too it does not touch the depths of the co-dependency created by the narcissist. I vowed at six years old that I would not be like her and I would never treat my children, when I had them because I wanted 99 of them… Hello… the way she treated us. So, how I made some the choices I have made that hurt me and my children AGAIN, caused me to become suicidal last Summer. I am just now pulling out of it. The first time I was suicidal I was four years old. I remember bouncing off the walls on the ceiling of my mom and dad’s bedroom, looking down at my body. I was being hurt and I just wanted out. I was done absolutely. I was so done here on this Earth. I needed a window or door to be opened because I was leaving . There was no open door or window and obviously at some point I guess I came back in my body. I was seriously suicidal again at 18 yrs old, 33 yrs old and here I was again at 49,I had grabbed my keys and was jumping off the bed to drive myself to the psych ward because I was going crazy. I could not figure out what was wrong with me. I knew that something was so wrong with me that I should kill myself and I had an idea. while I had been told I had a personality problem over and over they could not tell me what that meant. He said I did not have a personality disorder just a problem personality problem. Then I remembered somehow that my mom had made a joke once about being a narcissist so I Googled daughter of narcissist and hit paydirt. I’ve been reading a lot of sites about narcissism in the daughter of narcissists and it has validated me and educated me and has allowed me to do some really hard work really quickly to pull out of this suicidal depression because I just won’t live that way if I can help it. Anyway I threw my keys down and sat back down on the bed I have been reading ever since. You are very kind when you speak about the fact that a narcissist became narcissistic because of abuse themselves. I am 49 years old and again under attack by my narcissistic mother and her second husband of 25 years who is also a narcissist. this time they got away wth legally stealing my youngest child. She’s been trying for 30 years to steal my children. I have 6 of them my oldest is 31, my youngest is 12 and now he is gone and lives with my stepsister. The whole story is so evil I cannot really talk about it right now. I am in treatment right now and have been for a couple of years, one of the things I’ve been doing is learning DBT & CBT skills. I have had an extraordinarily hard life due to my own bad choices and now I know why. Thank you thank you thank you. I am in a world of hurt and without this knowledge I cannot move forward I’m so grateful for the work you do and for caring so much. I know I just said I’m in therapy but through this i feel so defeated, scared. I left my second husband two and a half years ago , and now my children are grown and gone and the last one taken. I guess it’s time for me to have a career and I don’t know how because … I don’t really know why I don’t know how. I know I’m pretty smart and somewhat educated and very disciplined in certain areas and I can’t even take care of myself. It’s just me now and I don’t know how to fight for me except how to fight for my life Maybe. I feel like a fraud of a human being that I’m just pretending to fit in in this world but that I am not a part of. I have never been a part of, even when it looks like I am. it’s like I’m just here on the planet waiting and hoping to move on to my next best place as soon as possible and I don’t know why. There are so many people I love and things that I love to do, there’s just this deep down in my bones feeling if not just incompetency but an incompetency that is unfixable and hopeless and I know it’s not true. I know With God all things are possible… I’m just … I don’t even know how to explain it because I don’t understand it I just want to say thank you, thank you.
OMG, this is his and my story….word for word. We lived this way for about five years. Just two months ago I left….don’t ask me why because it killed everything in me to leave. I’d never even heard of narc till a few months ago from a friend and had to look it up. What happened and is happening there is nothing I can do but hope and pray I make it mentally….because I don’t think Im going to. I fight total insanity of every possible kind every moment of my day. For six years this man did everything to an extreme, and I mean everything I have read so far!!!! and I fell for it completely in every way. He stole my soul, heart, mind, and body and I don’t know if I will gain it back. I fight daily like I said…Im scared to death of losing it completely but know that everyone around me knows how bad I am right now but wont tell me. My cousin who’s trying to help me did just a random search and found this…as she read it aloud to me since I was battling my own moment of sanity and selfworth….I cried…I cried because it was like someone was watching my world and life and know him and knew me to a tee…..it was scarey and yet hopeful. I don’t know what to do at this point..every symptom you described I am going thru moment by moment day by day…..it scares me to think Im the extremely messed up one worse then Im willing to let on……please guide me from here.
For decades, I tried unsuccessfully to articulate to family and friends what I was being subjected to. I knew something wasn’t quite right, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. Because my partner was held in high regard due to his false persona in social settings and my need to project a happy family, nobody believed me. It was extremely debilitating. Some years ago, I suddenly had an epiphany and from that moment on, they kept coming. I likened it to my brain being awakened. Still, I had difficulty articulating what was occurring in my relationship, until I read an article about narcissism. It gave me clarity. My question is, all the research and articles I have read, don’t have the one answer I need. My ex-husband was so meticulous in his degradation of me to my children, family and friends, I have no-one to challenge his behaviour because they believe I am the problem and will not have anything to do with me. His attack on me was to subliminally change how everyone saw me. There is no way I can successfully approach them with this information on narcissistic abuse as they have been so well groomed, they believe this is my behaviour, not his. Please help….. I am tormented daily by my estrangement from my four sons and how I can approach the subject. Every way I come up with, seems hopeless because of how successfully he groomed them and I am now at a point where my life seems pointless.
Well this article nailed it. I am
So sorry to all of you that experienced this. I did too and am left with that thing he planted in my soul, the disassociation, the self-blame, the shame, all he gave me to rid himself of it. He hacked into my phone and all my emails. He humiliated me and told me he was doing it for me. He ended up telling me he is a sadist. Lovely as that def makes sense. I feel like my soul was crushed and that he stole my joy. I know I will be happy again it will just take time. I only know that because I have a guarding angel who had been thru this before and told me immediately what was going on. I didn’t even believe her at first. She told me to pray. It helps. Trust in God he is there to guide you. I only know because I never had to pray to God before and this does give relief. I believe the narcs are fallen angels. All I saw in him was an angel … What a sad story. Prayers for healing to all.
All I can say is “Wow!” I found this article to be extremely helpful. I spent the last almost 17 years of my life feeling crazy and just out right broken. I think the past 4 years have been the worst. I suffered mental, physical, and emotional abuse at the hands of someone who was neither a husband or anything close to a real boyfriend, or friend. I hung on to whatever it was we had out of love, hope, and a promise that one day things would be different. I was rejected and discarded more times than I can count with this man and still I allowed him to be a constant part of my life. We have two kids together so truly escaping him is inevitable.
Although I was familiar with NPD, NVS is something I just learned of today. I cried when I read this article. It gave me the answers to things I have been trying to figure out for years. I’ve been to counseling, and for about four and a half years of my life had attempted to go back to school majoring in Psychology. I did not graduate because my grades began to decline due to problems I was having in my personal life with this man and I was placed on academic probation and asked to leave the program. So I don’t know everything but I have a clear understanding of personality disorders. I was diagnosed with PTSD in 2008. I had suffered a severe emotional breakdown and was referred to a counselor by my family doctor. It was exactly what I needed because I began to feel really good about myself and that is what motivated me to go back to school in the first place. During the course of the relationship I shared with this man I endured a great deal of abuse, and I accepted and allowed a lot of things to happened that should have not have never happened but because I loved him I did just about anything he asked me to do. He lied, he stole, and was and is till this day a womanizer. He’s been married only once and claims to this day that it is all her fault that things did not work out, and me like fool used to believe that story. God knows I’ve heard it time and time again noticing that each time he told it new details were revealed. The truth is he has always been a womanizer and nothing he does is wrong or ever his fault. I used to think he was a sex addict, but it’s a little deeper than that. He knows everything and treats mostly everyone like they have to be worthy of his company. He always made me feel like I wasn’t good enough to be his one and only, and eventually I started believing him. I couldn’t understand how I wasn’t good enough to be his girlfriend or wife but I was good enough to lay with, and feed him when he was down and out and going through the motions in his other relationships. Whenever I would try to take a hint after I agonized over him rejecting me I would try to move on. He would pop up in my life and treat like I was cheating on him and somehow he would make me feel guilty about moving on. He lives in my head. I cannot believe how much his words and actions have influenced the majority of my decisions I made over the past several years. This from a man who told me countless times to leave him alone and that he did not want me. It seemed like he would eliminate any potential male prospects by violence towards to me and verbal abuse towards them. This was an ongoing for years. A vicious cycle just repeating itself while he slept with and dated whoever he wanted. I thought he loved me. I thought we had a real connection and something worth holding on to even as just friends. I fooled myself time and time again believing that one day he would realize just how much he hurt me over the years. He not only abused me in front of friends but in front of our kids. The more vulnerable my situation the worst the treatment is. He is there to break me down and when I get back up he’s there to reap the benefits as if I owe him my life. I cannot understand how anyone could be so cruel and selfish. There is so much I could say but it’s just way too much to get into. I just want you know you helped me gain a better understanding of my life today. I now see that I have been suffering endlessly at the hands of a Narcissistic man who made me his emotional punching bag. I hope now that recognize the problem that I can return to therapy and continue my education in the psychology field.
I have extreme mixed emotions reading about my life that i share with everyone that has commented.. I found this sight about a month ago and I now know after 20 years I am not alone, but feel so bad for everyone because of the extreme pain we have all gone through. Its amazing to me how one person we let into our lives can cause so much destruction. I was with my wife for 18 years, married for almost 10. She is an extreme narcissist and I was the perfect one to give her the supply she needed. I knew of her behavior problems before we were married, but thought they would go away once she got what she wanted. I had plans of being single for the duration of my life having gone through a couple of painful breakups. She knew this and used it to show everyone that she was the only one that was able to catch me, giving her great power. Life went down hill fast after I said “I DO”. I was able to hold my own for awhile but slowly lost the battle. Two years into the marriage, after many marriage counseling sessions, it was decided that I was suffering from depression. Since that day I have seen countless psychiatrists, doctors, counselors, therapists, and 3 types of medications to fix me. She loved the fact that I was a broken man. The abuse escalated because now I was, as she put it “a loser and a victim” and every name you can think of, most I cannot print. I would sit there and take her verbal abuse. My anxiety,depression, low self worth took over my life. My thriving business was suffering, also my friendships and immediate family time was non existent. She was able to get into my house, get a huge ring, get married and stay married for so long by using my step daughter as a pawn. She would tell me if I did not do these things and more she would leave me and take her away and never let me see her again. I love her as my own and she knew it. Over the years she threatened to leave me 75-100 times moving out 6 times, once for 6 months.. Each time I lost a little more of myself. She was offered her dream job but it required her to move out of state. After discussing for days we decided she should take it. The down side was my daughter would go with her, we had a plan on how long we would live apart, we flew constantly back and forth to be together. A year and a half into our agreement and a couple weeks before my daughter was to graduate from high school, she dropped the big bomb of “I WANT A DIVORCE”. I pleaded for over a year for her not to go through with it. The last time we spoke on the phone I asked her why she was doing this. She came up with a lot of reasons but the last was the real zinger, “I JUST DON’T NEED YOU ANY MORE” This being funny seeing she would tell me I was a user and put her down to make my self feel better. Her tantrums, rages, and belittling sent me so close to the final edge, but I am still alive and able to share a small sample of my life. During the process I have lost my house, my business and was left extremely in debt.The divorce has been final for almost 3 years and I am slowly getting back into a normal life, but don’t know if I will ever be the old me again. I absolutely trust no one! I know she just goes on with her life talking bad about me to whoever will listen. She would tell me about her first husband and my step daughters father, so I know her pattern. I fed her addiction and still have all the symptoms of the abuse. I still have self blame issues and extreme guilt of losing my family. I even feel a little Stockholm syndrome, I have even questioned if I may be a narcissist. Like I said, this is a small glimpse into the last 20 years of my life. I could write so much more it is over whelming.I can only hope and pray we all get through this together. Education is the key to survival, the more I have learned the more I feel there may be a light at the end of the tunnel. I am a firm believer in karma, so good things will happen to good people. Christine, Thank you so much for giving me and others the key to help unlock the chains that have taken over our lives.
Hi Suzann, You really do need help to get strong to deal with these family members coming to stay for so long……. it basically involves getting better boundaries around these people. Just because they are family, that does not give them the right to disrespect you while in your home. Your husband has probably never known any different from his relatives, so it is hard for him to agree…….. he was probably conditioned to put up with their bad behaviour and dramas, may have even learned to dance their convoluted dance. You go gently with him, otherwise you may push him into the position of feeling he has to defend them.
There is a wonderful therapist (she has also written a book on narcissism), even if you live too far away from her, she may be willing to work with you by Skype. Here is her link:
Andrea Schneider, LPC: http://www.andreaschneiderlcsw.com/
Best of luck, Christine
An excelent article.
I have been taking teraphy sections for some time now, mostly due to depression, but reading the article I recongnized several aspects of NVS that match with my story, what sugests there were more things going on under the surface than me and even my therapist thought.
By any chance, don’t you people have any idea of similar(and reliable) blogs or websites that translates this content to portuguese? Or would that be a lost cause? I really would like to discuss with my therapist some itens of the article, but she doesn’t know english and neither mine is good enough to be trusted, I guess.
Thanks already.
Thankyou for this well written and insightful column. I left my NPD partner of 28 years 18 months ago and I read extensively to gain an understanding of how I let this happen to me. I now know I was shaped as a child – I was a ‘good girl’of an alcoholic, character disordered father, stressed out, angry, isolated mother with 4 young children in quick succession. Isolated living rurally in an isolated farming community in New Zealand.
I also had the full realisation that I was sexually abused by my father as a child a year ago. This knowledge came back to me as flashbacks – but these flashbacks had began gradually 2-3 years earlier. I am still trying to understand how I suppressed all this so effectively, but will get there. I am no longer afraid and this is wonderful. I truly believe that anything I learn to be factual that has occurred in my past will not surprise or alarm me in any way shape or form. I feel incredible sadness and guilt that I have bought up 2 sons with such and angry abusive ‘male’.
What I do know now is that our subconscious is wise, and we all need to listen and not dismiss its messages to us, as it does send us these and it tries to guide us in the right direction – tears ‘for no reason’ when listening to a song (LISTEN to the lyrics)- a poem you like and write down but you are not sure why – I had Yeats poem “Two Years Later” for 20 years – I now know why.
I also understand that many physical presentations to the family Doctor are realted to living within abusive relationships – migraines, autoimmune disorders, bilary colic, unexplained abdominal pain etc:and this is becoming recognised more by the mental health community eg: The Body Keeps Score – Bessel Van Der Kolk & The Body Never Lies by Alice Miller.I am a nurse and I know that very few Doctors or nurses really consider what is emotionally going on for that patient that may have caused the body to react in the way it has, and this needs to change.
Of-course the main thing that needs to change is how we recognise what a healthy relationship actually is and isn’t & this needs to be taught early in life and reinforced often. Stop school talks about sex just being about prevention of pregnancy and avoiding STI’s. We need to raise all children with love, compassion and encouragement to be their true, authentic selves.I think Alice Miller’s books are insightful regarding this, especially researching the childhoods of Adoph Hitler and others – none of this embittered hatefulness needs to occur and I am coming to understand that this is what we as a species need to grasp and move forward with. Kindness is so important. No matter who you are on this planet – the same things make us sad, and the same things make us happy – this is something I have always said to my sons – I don’t know where I got that from, but I believe it’s true.
Once again thanx – too much of this is not understood by too many “Professional”and it’s heart warming to read an article such as this.:)
Thank you for this beautiful article.
My father has NPD and after researching it i’m 100% sure of course as the narsacist he is he would never ever admit to it. He is a doctor actually in fact a physiciatrist. Reading this responses I feel like my experiences were some how luckier, but I guess that’s just me validating my father for the things he does right. I am completely controlled by who he is. I am a college student depending on his money to pay for college and pay for me to go to therapy and support. My father is a gambling addict or “was”. I guess you could say he’s not as bad as he was, but as a doctor who makes 250K a year we should be in a better financial state, but were not and thats probably because of his grandiose spending. My parents seperated when I was three and I saw my dad whenever he wanted to see me or whenever it appealed to him. The court agreement said on the weekends, but sometimes he would and sometimes I would go months without even a call. He also is completely and utterly unreliable. Though he goes through periods where he is so much better than he usually is. It’s very hard for me to talk about him in an angry manner because I don’t see him as much as I did and the memories I have mostly blocked out, but what you said really gave me goosebumps. I never knew which dad I was getting in the car with. There was an extremely loving and caring dad, there was a overly giving and spoiling dad, there was a depressed dad who would barely talk, there was a anger dad who would scream at anything, there was a criticizing dad that thought I was inept or stupidfor little things like not understand where to find something he was pointing at, there was a silly dad who was funny, there was an impulsive, and manic dad “lets go to NYC for the weekend let just drive for the day and stay in the best hotel. My dad was inconsistent and unstable. He speeds so much that he gets so many tickets and never pays him so hes always driving with a suspended license. I was diagnosed with PTSD from childhood trauma unrelated to my father, but the more I read about NVS the more it suites me. I have the worst self image. I’m constantly comparing myself to others. I have the constant need to be desired by other people who I have no desire for. I am in a loving relationship with someone i’ve been with for 3 years he is the most supportive man i’ve ever met and his loyal straight to the bone, but I am constantly insecure about how he feels about me. When he’s not in the mood for sex I cry because I don’t feel like he thinks i’m beautiful or he doesn’t love me. My father constantly critizied my as a child and was obsessive and almost abusive about the way he told me to take medication. Since he is a physiciatrist he feels like he knows everything about medication and i grew up hearing “your doing this because your not medicated” “go take your medication” “i dont believe you actually took them” I was diagnosed with bi polar at the age of ten at my fathers request for the evaluation. I don’t have bi polar disorder I have PTSD because I was raped at 7. but no one ever asked so I didn’t tell I still don’t know what happened bc its so repressed. I grew up thinking that everything I did was because I was bi polar so when I realized through therapy that I was traumatized I was so confused and didn’t even know who I was. It’s like my dad defined my mental health and shapped it into his image and used it for an explanation for the things he didn’t like or he couldn’t totlerate. I have so many questions, but I jjust was to ask have any of always had trouble describing the person with NPD in your life to other people? Like i’ve almost never been able to explain in therapy what my dad was and how he acted.
Yes Spring……….. I shall email you immediately. Christine
Hi Christine
I’ve been through hell, in particular for the last 4 years dealing with a very bad separation with a narcissistic ex.
His charming, arrogant and professional personality has won over many judges, and a physiologist. I’m feeling extremely let down by the system, extremely hurt and very angry.
Can you recommend a therapist in Ireland that has experience with this disorder. These people are leaving a trail of destruction, pain & devastation with their lies, lack of remorse, and sheer evil…… and they walk away with feeling they are untouchable, powerful and justified. Many thanks
Reading this is really eye opening. I have been the victim of two narcissists. Sometimes, I can’t help but feel like I have some of the traits and maybe I was the narcissist. Although, I don’t think it’s true. I’ve asked my doctor, counselor, family and friends and they all disagree that I am the one with the issue. Is it normal to feel that way?
Christine,
I found your article be very interesting. I only recently started looking up information about Narcissism and Sociopathy trying to figure out if my husband falls into those categories. There are a lot of similarities, but maybe I am looking to deep or not deep enough. I don’t know anymore. Your article upset me, because I saw myself so much in there. It hurt because I am that person. The Stockholm Syndrome part made me tear up as I was talking myself down.
Everything started when I was 18. I had left an abusive relationship only 5 months prior and I had been sober from cocaine (my ex got me using that) for about a month, when he asked me out and asked me to move in all at once. He suggested that I quit talking to all my old friends to prevent a possible relapse, which I did because it made sense at the time. He hates everyone I meet from the call center job I have. Always asks why I have to find the lowest lifes and hang with them. Tells me that I don’t know how to make good real friends. I quit trying.
Fast forward 6 months: We are still dating I have a decent job working in an ER as patient support specialist, signing people in, taking their ins information, and so on. One I said in passing that one of the Drs would do nice things for me from time to time. I immediately got yelled because I was wat too stupid and blind to see that he was making an advance on me. That was a several month fight that I was always apologizing for in the end.
Sexually I did what he wanted pretty much when he wanted. Multiple prior experiences had taught me saying yes was safer, than saying no, because no didn’t always stop what was happening and I didn’t want to possibly get hurt. One day he told me that he was going to quit wearing condoms and so I got on BC. Then he said that I was a crazy emotional nutcase on BC and he couldn’t tolerate the mood swings and emotional outbursts, so I got off of it.
I got pregnant. We fought over what would happen and he gave me an ultimatum of keeping the baby and losing him or lose the baby and keep him. I stood up for myself for the first time in over a year and left. That lasted about a month before I was back living with him again. This time with no job and solely dependent on him. He started negelcting me when I wanted attention from him, he told me that I had a baby to occupy my time and he was trying to grow a business so he didn’t need to be bothered. He built 2 businesses lost one and sold the other. We had 2 more kids during this time. One planned and one not.
Fast forward 7 years: I was joking around about doing amateur night at a strip club with a girlfriend. We were giggling and laughing at how horrible we be at it. After she left my husband started pushing to actually go and audition. I finally caved and went to try out. I got hired and started 2 nights later. I wanted to quit after the first night, but he said give it a least week. My second night working the manager took an extreme interest in me.. Told me a girl like me shouldn’t be here. I was much to nice and reserved to be a sex worker. He invited me over after work and I quickly accepted. That was the start of a very violent affair. My husband got tired of me not being home and told me I was going to quit. I said no. He immediately asked who he was because I hardly ever told him no. He wanted me to tell him what kind of ideas this guy been putting into my head. I can’t have my own thoughts and feelings, they have to be someone else’s. I quit the club when he threatened to take the kids away. I didn’t end my affair. I kept seeing. My husband got wise to the affair and I told him what happened between the manager and myself. He in turn got physically violent, emotionally/psychologically abusive. I hurt his ego. For months I had to tell him every time I got off the phone with him that I was a whore and didn’t love him. I had to tell him I was worthless. That I was less than a person because of what I did. He constantly threatened to take the kids way if I didn’t do this or that. He’d force himself on me, but I was too afraid to say no because of violence and threats. He started drinking and heavily. We move to Florida.
Florida: I agreed to a different kind of relationship if he didn’t take the kids way. One where he had complete control over everything I did. He controlled what I did, who I talked to, what I wore, what and when I ate, how much I could weigh, where I could go and how long I could stay. If I broke curfew he’d accuse me off cheating and punish me. He told me one day that I could tell him when he had too much to drink… I did… I paid the price… he hit me for telling him he was drunk. He set me up on purpose and I walked right into it. I contemplated suicide at one point and he had me baker acted. I was in a psych ward for 36hrs. He said he would use this against me in court if I left. During this time he also said that if I left he’d hunt me down, bring me back, and make sure that I wouldn’t leave again.
Today: I’m still with him after 14yrs. We have 4 kids together now. I suspect that he got me pregnant on purpose with our 4th. He knows that I am fiercely against abortion and would never have one l. I am still solely dependent on him for everything. He encourages me to go to school but then asks if I can handle it. He says that he doesn’t want a repeat of the strip club. I don’t know if I will ever be able to leave. I don’t know if his threat of hunting me down is talk or if he will actually do it.
My fear is that I have been with him my entire adult life; I don’t know how to function outside of his want, needs, demands, and desires. He keeps telling me that I was made for him. That I am his.
I am looking forward to reading the rest of your site.
K
Dearest Christine,
Thank You so much for your article.
I was “discarded” after 11yrs by my malignant narcisist partner nearly 18 months ago.
I had started to write here an explanation of my horrendous experience but had to delete it as seeing it in writing is too devastating to bear.
I was coping well for few months and I thought I was starting to get to term with this (after feeling suicidal ) etc until last week when something happened to remind me of his abuse and now I am spiriilling downward again.
Terrible flashbacks, anxiety, panic attacks, dreaming of him every single night (those few hours I can sleep as I am now back suffering from insomnia), anger, shame and everything that I though I managed to put behind is facing me full force again.
When will this ever end ?
I live in Ireland and I know that there are no trained therapists for helping with this kind of abuse.
When I started reading about narcissistic behaviour I then found out that I had actually been a victim of a malignant narcisist and I felt a bit better knowing what had happened to me.
But I also know that the most important thing is for me to get help so that I can finally break free from the abuse still resides inside of me even though the abuser physically left.
I would really appreciate any advise you could give me .
Nat.
Dear Christine,
Your perspicacious insight on NPD is unique.
The other day, I saw a photo of myself taken just before our marriage. I saw a young, handsome, intense and energetic, positive and optimistic, serious and ambitious man. Today, after 16 years of marriage, I do not recognize myself anymore, neither who I was, nor the one I have become.
I had never been ill and never taken medication other than antibiotics and aspirin. After a few months into our relationship I thought there was something wrong with me, and my ex helped me to find a doctor to treat insomnia, then depression, then a psychoanalyst to uncover childhood traumas, then another analyst to make more progress, then a nurse specializing in behavioral therapy, and then stronger drugs.
When we first met, her flat was filled with the belongings of her series of ex´s. She was fascinating, in particular her command of her maternal language. But I always felt as if there was a ghost in her apartment. She would get angry, shout, vomit and bang her head against the wall. I thought I was the right person to deal with this. I was so terribly wrong. Today, my spirit is broken.
In the first months of romance and love, there were moments when she hurt me badly. I felt hurt, but I also doubted about my reactions, and I thought I was being unfair, jealous, or stupid. When she told me she had had three abortions at the age of 15, I felt uncomfortable, but when she told me she had slept with an uncountable number of men, I felt hurt.
She quickly suggested that I should move in to her flat. I accepted, but at the same time, it made me feel vulnerable and dependent. Early on she blamed me for keeping her awake at night, and I moved in to the living room. I tried to be as quiet as possible. Soon after, she had a fit of anger because a friend had called in the evening. She claimed that my friends “always” called late and that woke her up.
She quickly suggested we should get married. I accepted, but there was a deep, uncomfortable feeling which I could not fathom. I decided that it was just me.
While her parents prepared the wedding she fell in love 3-4 times. First she met a girl at a psychological conference, and came home to explain to me in detail their troubled exchange. Then there was a guy she fell for, a historian. She used to say she hated history, but she bought his books, and followed me around the house citing his works. One day she received a card from him. She looked strange and panicked and that made me suspicious. She kept the card in her sack, and one day I read it. It was from the author: “I feel your hand, your mouth, ahhh. Thank you!” I was terrified. I confronted her, she denied that they had had any relationship. We argued about this and she would throw tantrums. One night the fight ended by her grabbing the phone and threatening that she would call her parents to end the preparations for our marriage. My family had already bought their expensive tickets for their long journey to come over. Four years later, she admitted that she had had an affair with him.
Then she fell in love with a girl. I was on a trip abroad and she came to join me. She was crying all the time, then she spent day and night on the phone with the girl. I had borrowed the house of a friend, and I felt so uncomfortable with her making long-distance calls, for hours on end, at his cost. One day she writes a long letter (this is before e-mail) and asks me to take it to the post office and fax it to her girlfriend. I said yes, took the letter, locked myself in the WC and read it. The letter was full of romantic and erotic babble. I tore it to pieces and it went down the drain. In a few days, she left early, to rejoin the girl. This is where insomnia started to settle in.
Just before the wedding, she had a row with her friend, a girl, who had introduced us. Her husband was one of my closest friends. She asked them not to come to the wedding. I have not seen my friend since, and that made me feel miserable and isolated.
We had a huge wedding. At our table, she put all her male friends and ex-lovers. I did not realize that until later.
We had our first child, and her ex-boyfriend became the godfather.
There was a radical change when she became a mother. She stopped her endless accounts of previous sexual exploitations and became a caring, sensible, conscientious mother. We had more kids, bought a house, and my business was going very well. Psychologically speaking, she is much more stable than she used to be.
But I was not happy. When I look at the photos taken 2-3 years into our marriage, I see a sad, pale, depressed man. The wife is smiling, the kids are lovely. But the man´s smile is forced.
She told me I had go seek treatment, because she did not want to have me around the house not being efficient. I took pills and went twice a week to see a shrink. It was an interesting experience. I searched my brain for some terrible childhood experiences, I talked endlessly about my parents and siblings, it was interesting as such, but it made no great difference.
One day, I ended my friendship with another close friend and my most important collaborator. She helped me doing that and explained to me that he was a narcissistic pervert and dangerous. After doing that, my interest all the projects we were working on just evaporated. Ever since, I have been struggling to find interest in the job I used to love.
We agreed that she would not have to work. I would provide for everything. I had already become more and more isolated, and somehow dependent upon her. She replaced my friends and family. I felt incomplete, and good for nothing. She constantly blamed me for what I did or did not do. She said she was disappointed with me as a father, that I just sat around and did nothing. Which was not quite true. I had a full time job, which included international travel, and on the side, I had bought, renovated, and rented out six flats, to create a small family capital, from nothing. I did housework, and I took care of the kids, but less than she did. But her criticisms usually started with either “You always..!” or “You never..!”. I believed her and it made me feel as if I was seriously handicapped.
My wife was interested in poetry and wrote poems, but it was difficult go get them published. She then started to write music, and got her friends to help her. She had “troubled” relations with two of them, the guy who played all the instruments and recorded the music, and the girl who took nude photos for the eventual cover.
I paid for the production of 1000 CD´s. On the cover, she is wearing only a wolfskin vest, her chest is bare. She never sold a copy.
One evening, before I left for a work trip, she announced she would be going in the morning to pose naked in front of a writer, who had asked her to help him and inspire him. This made me feel very uncomfortable, and re-ignited my misery of our first years.
She started threatening me with divorce. I had become unable to make love to her. I had been sleeping on the sofa in the living room for 14 years. I had lost some of my friends. I felt bored for the first time in my life. I could no longer meet any deadlines in my work.
One day she left for a few days. I knew it would be a new lover, a musician, and strangely, I felt relieved. A few weeks later she suggested we separated, and I agreed. She has made a few suggestions about the arrangements with the kids, but keeps changing them. I have been going through horrendous moments where I fear that I will loose them.
Then something happened. This January. It was as if I had been under a magic spell for two decades. Suddenly, I joined the dots. I was familiary with Sam Vankin´s writings, but I had, for some strange reason, been looking for NPD in other people than my wife. I now realized that I had been married to a narcissistic pervert, and that I was badly damaged. I did go to see yet another therapist, a hypnotist this time (I had also tried acupuncture), and was searching for childhood traumas, when I realized that I was indeed traumatized, not from childhood, but from my adult years, from the marriage, and from having sacrificed myself for a narcissistic pervert.
The good news is that the kids are ok, mostly. The job ahead is for me to heel, to get back to developing my business, and to be there for my children. I don´t know how to deal with my ex-wife. I hinted at her illness, and she admitted that she had had traces of NPD but that it was over now, and then she exploded with anger, and spoke, as if she was giving a speech, making sure the kids heard every word. But she was rearranging the truth. I tried to correct her, remind her of facts, but my voice trembled with fear and sorrow. She is so much more articulate than me and she feels (in a way) so much more confident than me. And she can be very convincing. Her core argument now is that I am unable of caring for the kids, and the latest medical hypothesis is that I am supposed to be “asperger”.
I have been suicidal many times, but now I know the reason for it. That is a great relief. I wish I knew how the future will be.
Hello. I am just a couple of months out of what I now believe was a relationship with a narc. Hell on earth, but now suffering the after effects. I did eventually “out” him I couldn’t hold it in any longer ..
Can someone advise how I deal with the flashbacks please? They come at the most strangest of times and are like waves of emotion. I used to think hear feelings were missing him now I realise they are flashbacks and my heart is going through withdrawal. Can someone help as to how I deal with this bit please?
Sites like this and other narc support pages have quite literally saved my life ! Thank you x
I doubt anything can be done, but I’ve lost a wonderful boyfriend of two years, whom I love deeply, to his narcissistic sister. We’re all retirement age, and he and I came out of difficult marriages, so we understand one another and get along really well. She was widowed and moved in with him three years before I met him. Though I tried to include her and was always polite, she escalated her dislike of me over time, and pushed it on him to the point of crisis, making him choose her over me. (She had no answer when I asked her why… just that she had “bad feelings” about me) I even found her a boyfriend about a year and a half ago, whom she still sees regularly. She accused me of trying to “move in” and previously insisted on limiting how often I could visit. (I own my own house, but I had been spending a few nights a week with him there) She saw that he was falling in love with me, and she couldn’t stand it, so she started turning him against me. He finally gave in and quit seeing me, partly because I recently complained a lot about what she was doing to our relationship, but mostly because it “upset her so much” that he was seeing me. I’m devastated. She has him convinced that he’s responsible for her emotional well-being, and has a truly astounding amount of mind control over him. She has him convinced that he should be loyal to her “because she is family.” She “threatened” to move out to a “crappy place” so that he and I could be “together” because she couldn’t stand being around us having a relationship. (Heavy duty guilt manipulation there…) She’s 8 years older and they come from a family with a horribly narcissistic father. I had a narcissistic mother too, hence my marriage to one, whom I divorced three years ago. Since then I’ve studied narcissism avidly to learn what happened to me and how it works. She was “nice” in the beginning, but would often monopolize the conversations when I was around (supply) and when she realized that I wasn’t going to fawn over her, (supply) it turned around. Their names are both on the house, but he pays the mortgage. However, she says it is HER house.She is the most masterful manipulator I think I’ve ever seen, but she could tell I could see through her. I think that’s what upset her so much. I threatened to see the real her. It is one of the strangest situations I’ve ever been through. I was looking for red flags like substance abuse or verbal abuse, or irresponsibility in him but there weren’t any. He treated me nice, was very affectionate, and has a beautiful capacity for intimacy on numerous levels. I was way into the relationship before I started to see how incapable he was of seeing her games and how selfish she is. I tried to get him to see that if she loved him she would be happy for him to have a good relationship, but she doesn’t care about him except to use him. It has been as if they were married and I was the “other woman.” She claimed that I was trying to push her out, but it was exactly the opposite. (gaslighting.) So strange. So very strange and painful. I never imagined… I guess I will have to look everywhere for narcissists, and stay on the alert, though right now I can’t even imagine getting in another relationship because this one has been so painful. I’m scared to even try again.
Hi Jane, Your therapist could be right, but there are other reasons too…. narcissism can be caused by either nurture (genetics) or nature (the environment). The Narcissistic mother tends to put roles on her children, for example, the Golden Child, The Scapegoat Child and the Lost Child.
The Golden Child:
• The falsely empowered Golden Child (the good child who becomes the emeshed and parentified child that will do everything to please the mother and keep her happy; the one who is emotionally and psychologically responsible for the well-being of its mother). This favourite loved child is the hero, and the recipient of the mother’s positive projections. Their role is to be perfect and make the mother look perfect too, because they carry the idealised image of the mother, and she can live vicariously through her favourite child once again. It is the Golden Child that is often the victim of the mother’s emotional and (overt or covert) sexual abuse, and they are often roped into witnessing or taking part in the other sibling’s abuse. This can cause them to live in fear of having that love taken away, and ending up being either the scapegoat or lost child.
The Scapegoat Child:
• Then there is the no good rebel Scapegoat Child (the one who can never do anything right to please her, and who becomes the recipient of the mother’s negative projections and hatred). This poor child is usually the victim of emotional and physical abuse, the narcissistic parent’s punch bag. It would seem that this child represents all the rejected true parts of the self that the mother finds unacceptable, so they get projected onto this child who is now the scapegoat, taking away all her sins.
The Lost Child:
• Then there is the forgotten Lost Child: (the one who exels at being out of sight, who will try to shield the mother from burden by minimizing their depands on her and the other siblings. It is as if they understand the strain the family is under). This child, more than others, is the victim of the mother’s neglect and emotional abuse, for some reason this child just does not seem to matter to the mother. They spend a lot of time out of the house (i.e. in their friend’s homes, the library, in front of the television. etc). Because the lost child never received positive attention from their mother, they are left feeling lonely, rejected and isolated. As a result they are likely to grow up feeling empty, unlovable or unworthy because they were not inherently valued by a mother with an attachment disorder.
Do you identify with any of these roles, if so, Google for more information, this may give you some insights into what happened to you.
does anybody know what causes a narcissistic mother…………my mum is narcissistic and my therapist told me today that my mum must of had such a bad childhood so she has to put that pain on someone and i am the chosen one. That made me feel so bad as i dont like the thought of her having a bad childhood even though shes put me though hell
This was so helpful. I just went through this the last 2 months. I tried to go no contact for several weeks until last week when she contacted me to go to lunch… She sucked me right back in I fell hook line and sinker. I fell right back into not being able to sleep eat and having to drink just to turn my mind off. Today was the worse… convinced me it was all my problem I was the one causing the issues and of course with my mind was out of control so I bought it. Luckily I have a good group of friends and family who see this happening and try to help. Unfortunately it is someone I work in the same building with or did until today when I was told we would be moving to a new building for a couple months so I guess that is good. I normally have good self esteem and confidence. I am successful considered top be a very nice and generous person yet it only took handfuls of weeks to beat that out of me and make me feel depressed and miserable. I will read this article probably several more times the information is valuable to someone who has dealt with this on any scale. I can’t begin to imagine those who have dealt with it for years hats off to you all who have avoided going nuts.
Just need to develop a scanner now to warn people of these mentally abusive people. I will gladly toss in a paycheck or 10…
Hi Beth, Here is a list of people in America who understand this subject. Perhaps you could contact someone, even for doing a Skype call. Best of luck, Christine
United States:
Parental Alienation Legal Resources & Support:
http://www.pas-intervention.com/PASI/Welcome.html
http://www.equalaccessadvocates.com/
Linda Martinez-Lewi, PhD: http://thenarcissistinyourlife.com/ (confirming state location)
Sandra Brown, M.A.: http://www.psychologytoday.com/experts/sandra-brown-ma (confirming state location)
California:
Andrea Schneider, LPC: http://www.andreaschneiderlcsw.com/
Fiona E. Steele, LMFT: http://www.fionasteelelmft.com/AboutMe.en.html
Alan Rappoport, PhD: Redwood City, San Francisco-Tel: 650-556-9500,Fax: 650-599-9802, email: http://alanrappoport.com/contact.shtml
Darlene Lancer, JD, MFT: http://darlenelancer.com/index.php
Colorado:
Karyl McBride, PhD, PC: http://www.karylmcbridephd.com/
-She also has a website devoted to supporting survivors of parental Narcissism: http://www.willieverbegoodenough.com/workshop-overview-healing-the-daughters-of-narcissistic-mothers/
-She also maintains a database of mental health professionals who are experienced in the area of parental Narcissism: http://www.willieverbegoodenough.com/resources/find-a-therapist/
Michigan:
Royal Oak, MI
Eleanor Payson, LMSW, ACSW, LMFT: (248) 548-0306 and http://eleanorpayson.com/ Important note: Eleanor does not do phone consultations with clients out of state (in-state as well) unless they are willing to attend a face-to-face session first – so that she can conduct a full evaluation regarding the appropriateness for phone coaching support.
New Jersey:
Wendy Behary, LCSW: (973) 218-1776 x807
John Gasiewski, PhD, LCSW: drjohngtherapy@yahoo.com, (973) 671-8025
Carolee Kallmann, LPC: (973) 993-3193
Robin Spiro, LCSW: (973) 218-1776 x875
Harriet Achtentuch, LCSW: (973) 378-5804
Judy Margolin, PsyD: (609) 658-2536
New York:
Elizabeth Lacy, LCSW: http://www.elizabethlacy.com
John Gasiewski, PhD, LCSW: drjohngtherapy@yahoo.com, (973) 671-8025
Patricia McDonald, PhD: pam2034@med.cornell.edu, (212)-746-5684
Ohio:
Columbus:
Jeannine Vegh, M.A., I.M.F.T. http://jkvegh.com/ Important Note: Jeannine requests that only potential clients who are able to meet with her for face to face counseling reach out to her.
Oregon:
Christa Alexander, LPC: http://www.heartthyself.com/
Texas:
Shannon Thomas, LCSW-S: http://southlakecounseling.org/when-a-christian-meets-a-sociopath/
Les Carter, PhD: http://www.drlescarter.com/
Washington:
Seattle Area-Dr. David B. Hawkins, Director, MarriageRecovery Center drdavid@marriagerecoverycenter.com 360.490.5446
Evan Kimble, MA, LMHC: http://www.safepassagetherapy.com/index.htm
Hi,
Thanks for the article. I am having a very hard time finding a therapist who specializes in helping spouses of Narcissism in my area. Is there any resources that can help me? I live in Minneapolis. Thanks so much.
Wonderful article! By the way, could you clarify what qualities subconsciously the victim would hold but not nesecxarily be aware of? Thank You for writing this!
Thank you Christine,
In fact I cannot thank you enough, I am a victim of my sisters manipulations . She held my large family whom I love dearly, over my head and kept me isolated, she made me feel unwelcomed and unloved by them all in fact she made it sound like they could barely tolerate my presence at all and it was sickening to them when they knew I was visiting. For the feeling to subside in myself, I had to do her bidding, lend money I would never see again for an escalating drug habit she was supporting, and still felt like a lesser human because I always thought the love was returned? She had managed to chase away partners in the past with her flirting openly, always saying how she was the ‘pretty sister’ . My self esteem was at it’s lowest most of the time, in fact she often said that it was because I was a single parent that others always felt like I was putting myself out there like a ‘dog on heat’ …. Though I never did…. I simply wanted my children to know my family, the family I am loyal to, and to show them how different we all were and how each aspect of them came to strengthen family bonds , to allow my children to see that it is ok to be themselves , because it strengthens us a family and as individuals .
I separated from this sister about 4 years ago, I backed out of her life very quietly…. It was only a year and a half ago that my youngest sister realised what she was an the damage that she had caused through lies and manipulation that she encouraged us all to vacate the narcissists life…. We did….. All bar one of us, I say officially because she hadn’t noticed I left her life at all, as she was holding out large family over each of my siblings nieces and nephews and my mothers heads and was so busy that she didn’t notice when I didn’t make a noise.
I am happier, I cannot for see any situation that would allow this woman and the relationship that she had controlled back into my life, I feel like I saved my children too, because she told her lies better than I could have ever explained the truth. Thank you. I know I need help to recognise the lows I feel, how they aren’t normal, and that I am enough to be simply me. I am at the stage now where I am still furious with all the lies told about me to my family, and there is always an unhealthy stream of tall stories that I had no idea I was that interesting! Lol, in fact they were the more elaborate lies she told.
Thank you for writing this as well as you have , I can certainly relate to much of what has been written here. I nee to correct myself so it cannot continue to dominate any more decisions in my future. I am so grateful that this informative piece was available tonight , it’s been a low an long week… Thank you Christine . Living without her is lovely, but what was ingrained in me still echoes her controlling words of doubt and abuse. Thank you…. Now to find someone to help lol, I know it’s a new to most help out there, but I only need one to be able to walk that last mile out of a very bumpy and hurtful past.
Cheers
Thankful reader/ victim
I have been on a whirlwind for a while. My parents are both narsassistic my brother is the golden child. He tries so hard to be just like my Dad. He has pulled some of the meanest things on me at work. I was assaulted twice from him last year. Back in October him and another lady sabatoged my computer. The lady that did this had verbally assaulted me and throwed belongings from the restroom in my office. I told her I wasn’t going to be disrespected so I fired her. They brought her back in the next day. They told a lot of the people at work that I had mental problems because I was diagnosed with PSTD. I have been locked out of my office on several occasions. My brother and Dad condoned the behavior. The office started to become a hostile environment for me and my assistant. We have a family business together. I had become emotionally crippled having panic attacks on the way to work. My dad would come in my office and be so desrespectful to me. I went thru 3 assistance last year. They couldn’t believe that my family treated me the way they did and allow others to blanton be so disrespectful to me with no recourse. They didn’t have respect for me and it was funny and excepted that no one else had to. I have been so emotionally drained. The constant ridicule public embarrassing. They have no respect for women much but I have been there prime target for a while. I questioned how could they care about me and do this to me. The SUNDAY after Halloween my dad sent me a text and said not to come back to the office I had not contributed enough to the company. I was doing all there work. My Dad and my brother go to church together (pentacostal holliness) they locked me out of the office again called the police and put a no trespass on me. They do nothing but abuse me and lie all the time. My dad told I needed to start coming back to church. I told him he nor my brother ever set an example for me to ever want to go to church with either one of them. They break laws, abusive to women, my brother used to beat his wife up every weekend. My dad never would let us miss any service. He didn’t matter if I had exams to study. I helped start up the company and they pretty much took over everything and threw me out. I have had no income since November. I’m having to hire a lawyer to take them to court. They could care less about me they have no empathy. My Dad and my brother thrive over power. They have no empathy. I have panic attacks, numbness in my finger tips. This causing me such physical pain. I can’t deal with anymore. My mom is narsassistic I get blamed for everything and everyone. I have been thru hell and am still going thru hell. If I had a stroke or heart attack tomorrow and died they would not care they would take the spot light and tell everyone it was all her fault she didn’t live her life back. I have went through this abuse way to long not knowing why my family treated me so badly. Until I started to Google . I am going to have to sale my house and move far away from them. I’m not letting them buy with ousting me out like they did. I will see them in court I’m so sick of them to think they can do what the want and not be accountable.
My email was incorrect in box it is kosgood@snet.net
Thank you
Kieran Osgood
OMG… My life in a nutshell … All of it … Been learning about this for almost 3 years and I am really only beginning I have no real support except my therapist … They are such good actors and actresses no one understands .. I am trying to separate qualities I feel I picked up on from modeling my narcissist mother, afraid I will abuse my kids because I married the worst kind of narcissist … The really quiet one … Everytime I think of how right my instincts were yet my self wouldn’t let me believe it… It was all the time once my eyes were open to it ..simultaneously I worked for a real narcissist for 20 years .. Through in twins a bad fixer upper of a house and a late diagnosis of ADHD and depression at age 40 Everything fell apart .. In one week I lost my job or as I say my passion and my coping mechanism of a career (and served as as bread winner ) my marriage , any financial stability as I went bankrupt, my pension as I had to buy him out of marriage and house I don’t want, (wouldn’t have place to live as no job, no credit, etc..) while this was going on I lost my father, and just this past Sept 11 my mother .. I am severely depressed and dis associative and hiding from world trying to mantain any sanity I may have left and really no one believes your story anyway … 3 messed up dysfunctional siblings I can’t relate to never could as moms game was to put each of us against each other so neuroses all there for them but each in their denial and still making me out to be the one who is “psycho” … I was always wrong, stupid, and never validated . I didn’t know how bad it was how much fear I lived in how unsafe I felt ALL the time how it was always my fault ..ho “I must be different why can’t I fit in with my own family of any group of people? ” …And all I worry about is am I the narcissist??? So this article just reinforced what happened to me and I can’t be grateful enough .. Comes at a time when I really needed to read this .. Just last week at my therapist appointment I asked if I was also a narcissist as I am avoiding life and responsibility when I was always the one to take it all on my shoulders for everyone..she said no I was not because I am the most compassionate person with the most integrity she has ever known .. And I wanted to drop right there .., I never got compliments for my character and if I did it was torn down a second later so they were never real .. So love was never real .. Until I made love happen in my fantasies and got married to the ultimate narcissist .. And well it wasn’t real .. Turns out neither was I
Cause who the hell am I ? I mean who could I have been? It’s so unreal like a horrific nightmare that just gets worse and worse … But my therapist says my nature, my spirit is strong and will pull me through .. AwRness first maybe but really wasn’t I better off in ignorance??? Not physically or socioeconomic ally, or socially … But at least I had some protection in my blind reveries or hard working denial … Always cerebral never attached to my feelings…Coming out of It though? Worst thing (“process” ) of my life ..
.it’s like I feel everyone’s emotions more than they do .. And I’m usually not wrong when I pick up on it .. I am sooo sensitive to others thoughts that there isn’t one positive remark in my head all day and always wondering what everyone is thinking of me and how bad it must be (he prob thinks I am an idiot .. She prob just said that to be nice etc,, on and on) I have no trust ability left.. It’s like I used to be so believing that there was good in everyone … I would defend anyone and work on everything
Way harder than anyone else always told that I care too much
I thought I was trying to be a good person .. In reality all that was my coping mechanism … Now they robbed me of any belief of my value system I had and I am left with nothing ..no belief system.. No self esteem , no family , no passion , no energy ,no money just want to die .. But I don’t because I learned how to fight and I am fighting for my kids mental health and self esteem . So hopefully I can protect them from their fathers narcissism (now they think he is Disney dad with all my money but later in life they will understand.. I hope!) again thank you .. The explanation is helpful and validating again reinforcing my therapist … Please get this out to people I would be happy to help .. I will form a group or whatever .. I need to find others who understand
Such an amazing article with so many validating follow up comments. I can’t thank you enough.
But I did come away with one question. Perhaps it comes under the heading of gaslighting. I’m not sure. But when you are having your character assassinated and you speak up to defend yourself to a legal authority or even just to the broader extended family, the narcissist will often project and say that you are the troubled one, and they will accuse you of doing what they themselves have done or are trying to do. This is pretty much a constant in every article I’ve read about narcissistic behavior. And I’ve seen it with my own eyes so I KNOW it’s true.
But how can a therapist, or co-worker, or police officer, or anybody who doesn’t have eye witness, or credible inside information know who is telling the truth? Is there a way for professionals to isolate a clear signal ‘tell all moment’ when the narcissist while sobbing about his own victimhood actually reveals himself?
In other words, when I go from blog to blog I see people share about their experiences, and I can usually tell exactly what they are talking about by their shared experience. As stated earlier, I’ve lived it.
But then, while I’m reading I start to think ” I don’t even know this person.” What if they are the narcissist ‘pretending’ and assuming victimhood to get narcissist supply in the form of sympathy, support and more importantly validation so generously offered in online forums. For all I know they could be the stalker spying on another person on the forum. How would I know? — Because that is what these people do too. They flip the roles and sell themselves as the victims and impregnate every area of the true victims life just to ‘win’.
Now, in this particular case it doesn’t really matter if *I * believe a blog comment or not. I’m here for advice on healing…not to judge who is the victim and who is the stalker.
But what if I was a legal authority. A cop. A therapist. Or a lawyer. I imagine it must be the same for them. If someone comes in and shares about their narcissistic victimhood, how can the therapist tell if this person is truly a victim and not the narcissist projecting his/her cruelty onto another and painting himself up as the victim? Does this skill come with experience?
I have known for awhile that a family member is bashing my character without mercy to any stranger/therapist she can get to sit and listen. Only a small circle of intimate family members know exactly what’s going on. Others who have known us both through the years have let me know that they don’t even need to know the details they know I would never do the things she’s saying. (I guess a consistent character speaks for itself over the years, just as an inconsistent character with mood swings also becomes obvious.) But again, that is being observed and assessed over ‘years’ by a close circle of friends/family. But there is still collateral damage in trashing mine/my husband’s character to people who have not had access to the time it takes to form a meaningful opionion.
I have no doubt that she has probably convinced many ‘strangers’ that I am the evil incarnate. — I know this happens. I accept that as part of the carnage resulting from NPD. — Lost friends that ‘might have been’ .
But what if I am that person in a legal position who needs to make serious *on the spot* judgments dealing with a narcissist. How can knowledge of this syndrome help them identify the true victim? — Is there anything you’ve discovered in your studies? Something you can zone in on that would help reveal the acadamy award winning liar?
Our family narcissist went to a lawyer and accused my husband — who doesn’t have a greedy bone in his body — of taking money from the family estate. Both brothers had always gotten along *well enough*, and I know somewhere in his heart NPD knows his brother would NEVER do anything like that. Truth is he was being gaslighted by the real NPD, his wife . Until sister-in-law got involved both brothers shared executor powers and agreed on everything peacefully. But it was clearly her influence that turned the wheels towards greed and narcissistic attack. The most telling part of this, is that they both suddenly started blaming everything on ‘me’….even though I had nothing to do with any what took place. — But using my knowledge of ‘projection’ as a compass it was clear to see that by blaming me (a sister-in-law for influencing my husband) they were actually telling me that is what happened to him! His wife, my husband’s SIL was the negative influence that pushed him to make this vicious attack against our character. And my husband confirmed her involvement when he actually heard her coaching his brother in the background of a phone call one day.
Now WE know the this is what’s really happening, but the lawyer doesn’t know either of us from Adam. So my husband was put through a double ringer of victimhood being personally attacked by his brother (mouthpiece for the dangerous NPD) and then having to prove his innocence to the lawyer. — Which he did, but it was an excruciatingly painful ordeal, as it required reliving and explaining every financial transaction that took place during the years he cared for his mother, commuting hours just to help her with no personal gain for himself. Just the love of a son for a mother. Meanwhile the brother, who made these accusations, lived closer but never had time for her. (that right there says a lot. )
I was very surprised that some family members had already figured out what the real ‘problem’ was without even being told. They had been witnesses to all of our true character through the years and they just knew. But those are extended ‘family’ members.
I’m wondering what people in authority positions might have available to them, based on signs and symptoms to give them a clue on who is telling the truth?
The ability for a narcissist to lie so convincingly and sob as if they are the real victim is terrifying to me. I’ve seen it in action. Even though I ‘knew’ I didn’t do anything, they made me question my own sanity. The outrage and the crying is so convincing you begin to feel perhaps you ‘did’ do something that you forgot.
I was lucky. I had seen glimpses of the NPD earlier on, so when moods began to shift I kept everything transparent. I made sure their were witnesses I also kept an electronic file of the conversations that proved the accusations were groundless. — And I did this because of the knowledge I gained from educating myself on NPD due to another family member. Education – the gift that keeps on giving.
But I could only protect myself so much. The emotional and psychological damage takes place because it involves betrayal of loved ones. Their is no financial loss that can bring a higher price. It breaks you….but only for awhile. You have to get up, brush yourself off and remember it’s not your fault. Keep the focus on moving forward with self respect. You deserve it.
Ever since our experience with the lawyer, who eventually showed support for my husband and even told his brother he should thank him, because he didn’t seem very grateful for all my husband did over the years I have had this intellectual curiosity about how people who hold positions of influence can tell who is the victim and who is the NPD?
I am so grateful for the people, like you, who take the time to share their acquired wisdom because it does help. It has helped. I am so much stronger than I ever was knowing what really happened to make me this target for NPDs. And now I can forgive myself and put up those healthy boundaries without guilt.
Oh the way they use guilt in their manipulation. Wow! I think they may even have a playbook.
I guess I feel if there was just a way to identify a narcissist – – by a little telltale giveaway — a sign, or a symptom, then it would be easier to speak freely to a those in place to help the ‘real’ victims. And also, to protect oneself in the future.
Again, I am so grateful for this wonderful wholistic approach to the disease and the damage it creates. Thank you.
Sally
It’s always good to remember I am not crazy at all. Even after years of breaking the sick bond with the Narcissist, I still get to question myself once in a while. That’s why I got to your page this day. Thank you for the great job in the explanation of the victim situation. The plan now is not to be a victim anymore by getting over it inside my mind. Take care.
THANK YOU, Christine for your spot on article about the victims of narcissistic abuse.
The light finally came on for me this past month. I’m a 59 year old woman married to a NARC for 33 LONG years. Yes, we are still married for the time being. I’m in the information gathering stage in order to plan my escape.
Briefly, I was sexually abused by a close family member when I was around 7-8 years old. I surpassed that memory until during a random hypnotic situation. I was stunned to find this out, I’ve learned to deal with this event in my adulthood. I’m not completely over it but understand and accept it as part of my psyche. I find myself to be a people pleaser and hate to be in disagreement with anyone. My relationship with my current husband started actually as an affair. I had been married previously to a man who was socially challenged. He was brilliant but socially inept and had no friends. When I fell for the wiles of my current husband, he was so charming, tender, friendly, had good social skills and so many of the things I was lacking in my first marriage. My first marriage was on the rocks from day one. On our honeymoon Hubby #1 said, …”when we get divorced”….. . What the heck does that say about a relationship? Doomed…
Hubby #2 was swift to pick up on my weaknesses and what I was missing and filled those voids. After our first kiss, he said to me ” you know this means forever”. I took that as chivalrous. During my break up with #1, #2 was so supportive, he checked up on me all the time. We got pregnant before my divorce was final. The deal was sealed. I HAD to marry him, I was carrying his baby. He showered me with attention and called me several times a day to see how I was doing. If I happened to go to the market or be out in the yard and not hear the phone, he would question me as to where I was and what I was doing. His demands for a perfectly picked up house and dinner on the table when he got home from work were becoming more and more strong. One hot summer day about 3 weeks before our first child was born I took a nap in my undies on the bed. He came home from work early that day to find me taking a nap in a condition of undress. He asked me who had just been at our house. No one had been there that I knew of. He claims to this day that he saw someone coming out of our house and pull out of our driveway. HIs accusations of infidelity, I took to be a reaction to his and my extramarital affair and I was “paying my dues”. Since those early days of our relationship, things have only gotten worse. Nothing I do is ever good enough but on another occasions he extols my talents. He will talk about what a good singer I am. I can sing ok but am not anything to rave over. I played guitar when I was in college and he goes on and on about how good of a guitarist I am. I am only average. I’ve been subjected and forced into socially inappropriate behavior then accused of sexual infidelity. The atrocities go on and on. He checks my email, my cell phone, constantly needs to know where I am, who I’m talking to. I can’t have any friends or go anywhere without him being there. He demands my 100% attention. I found myself very depressed recently and tried hurting myself ( I really only thought about it) I think about my demise a lot and feel pretty much hopeless. I’m a caged animal and need to escape. I really don’t know where to turn. My doctor put me on some anti depressant medication which seems to be helping but it is only a bandaid. I need to fix the problem first then maybe the bandaid might help heal the wounds. Any suggestions of where to turn?
I completely agree with the absolute NEED for awareness and support. I live in Dublin ireland and I can find absolutely NO support groups or specialists in this field. There is no protection from this form of abuse. I rang women’s aid to try find support and they didn’t even understand what I was talking about. Online support is not the same as meeting people who are going through the same thing . I’m 12 years stuck in a world of hell and limbo of horrific abuse verbal and at times physical abd I can’t find the support I need to break free. I have scoured the Internet and bought books to try and help myself but I can’t do this by myself. My self confidence is shattered completely I have lost ALL my friends. No one understands why I can’t break free and death at this stage seems like the only way I will ever be at peace. I am not suicidal but I don’t think it’s good to almost look forward to dying just for no more of this. I would love to set up a support group and make this a well known topic. I have never heard of it until constant googling why does he do this to me why does he do that to me led me to a narcissist site and it was like someone had put my diary up. Do you know of ANY support groups in Ireland? Or are there any people on here that are from Ireland and would like to try and start one up?
Dear Christine,
I truly want to thank you for this post – it is one of the few times that I have ever encountered anything written by a qualified Therapist, or Mental Health Professional, that attempts to explore what happens to the victims of Narcissists. More often than not, both treatment and research alike tend to focus on exploring what the NARCISSIST is like, and attempting to resolve the NARCISSUST’S problems. Victims, and their perspectives, are rarely investigated, studies, or fully understood. It is as if the Mental Health Services have learned to recognise NPD because the DSM and ICD manuals clearly define it, and they can refer to these manuals in order to reach a diagnosis; however, they have done little, or nothing, to recognise the impact that narcissistic behaviour (particularly abuse) has on others.
Your post begins to explore this in what I can only describe as a very intuitive and insightful way. As I was reading it, things that have happened throughout the course of my life came to mind, and I found myself actually nodding in agreement with specific points. Maybe, here, I should tell you a little about myself, so that you can understand how I came to be reading this post…
I am the daughter of 2 parents – one of whom is diagnosed as having Bi Polar Disorder (and does show some narcissistic behaviours), the other has no known diagnosis, but is (to my understanding ) a full-blown malignant Narcissist. As a very young infant, I was fostered with extended family due to my mother’s Bi Polar… but to this day, I cannot understand my father’s persistent physical and emotional absence from my life. WHY did he not step in to look after me? This pattern repeated, and aged three, I commenced full time education (a year early) ostensibly because my mother could not look after me at home. WHERE again was my father in all this?
As a Primary School-aged child, I was brought up predominantly by my mother because my father devoted all his time to work. To this day, he seems to view a father’s only role as “breadwinner” and has very old-fashioned ideas about male and female roles (women should be “housewives”). He was anything but a hands-on father; indeed, there was NO touchy-feely behaviour in our family – no hugs, kisses, no shows of affection, nobody said “I love you” or used words like “care”. The only openly expressed emotion seemed to be anger/rage (my father has an explosive temper). He treated the house like it was HIS possession only, and that we should all be grateful to live there and abide by his rules. He took no interest in my hobbies, or schooling, other than to demand that I get high grades. My mother spent most time parenting. However, despite the fact that she was ill, my father expected her to run the home, do the bookkeeping (he is self-employed) and hold down a part-time job!
I grew up under strict rules that my father imposed. I was NOT allowed to know of mum’s mental illness, or ask questions. I was NOT to talk or ask about the past. I was NOT to talk or ask about my upbringing. My parents controlled and dictated all that I did (even down to choice of clothing). As I reached my teens, I felt under increasing pressure to “perform”; it was as if doing well at school was the only way to get any attention from my parents. However, I was also bullied badly at school because classmates there knew mum was mentally ill (apparently my parents had told other parents of schoolkids in my class, and these kids had overheard, even though they could not tell their own daughter!). I could not tell my parents about the bullying, because I was NOT supposed to know about mum’s illness, or talk about it – so I was trapped!
As a teenager, I tried to rebel. Firstly, this was in choice of clothing (I began to wear black jeans and Doc Martens); later, I got really into Alternative and Rock Music. Much of this was because I felt so insecure, and I identified with other kids who were somehow “outcasts”. It also helped me find some self-confidence and the ability to challenge my parents and assert some independence. However, my changed appearance enraged my father, and from the point where I reached puberty, my life felt changed forever. I remember endless arguments with my father – about clothes, about music, about his expectations of what I should do for a job, about going to University, about what I should study. My parents demanded high academic performance, but when I achieved it, they offered no praise or reward. Instead, when my father found out that I loved and wanted to study English Literature (I got top marks in it), he began to deride the subject and criticise me. He said it was “arty farty” and “would not get me a proper job”. I was NOT allowed to study it at University; my parents made me study foreign languages (which I hated). I tried to change to a different course at University, and remember trying to discuss this change with my parents. In response, my father told me that foreign languages were “the icing on the cake” and that if I changed course he would “throw me out of the house without a penny”. I believed him, because disagreements with my father in the past had ended up with him hitting me, and put up with 4 years of studying a course I did not want to do. I cannot describe how unhappy I was by then.
Years later, when I met the man I am now married to, my father told me (upon my getting engaged) “don’t expect to be happy with him, and if you’re not, don’t come running back to me”. He said it in a way that suggested he genuinely wanted me to be miserable. I returned to University and trained as a Social Worker (I worked in Forensic Mental Health Services). My father seemed disgusted by this and openly said to my face that he thought my job was “dirty”. Furthermore, he did not keep his disapproval of my career to himself, instead he bad-mouthed me round the extended family, and so I recently found myself at a family gathering facing uncomfortable questions from an aunt who wanted to know how I could work with offenders. My job was described as “shameful” and my aunt’s tone of voice was one of disgust!
I have been bullied at work in a way that exactly mirrored the bullying at school. This is the WORST part of what I have endured, because I can trace the bullying back to my father. How? Well, I discovered that personal information about me had become known at work; for example my colleagues knew about my mother’s mental illness. I had not told them, and was puzzled as to how this information had got about. I also noted that it was used against me; for example, on one occasion when I had time off work with a chest infection, when I returned to work I was asked “are you like your mother?” which really upset me. The inference appeared to be that my colleagues thought I was lying about the chest infection, and, worse, that I was somehow “crazy”. That hurt! What also hurt was hearing that people could think ill of my mother; after all, why should a daughter NOT be like her mother? What is wrong with that? The answer is that they were talking negatively about my mother’s Bi Polar, and saying that they would not want me to be like THAT. Can you imagine how embarrassing it is to face that at work? I truly felt sickened by my colleagues attitude and bullying, especially as some of them were trained Social Workers like me.
Recently, my father’s involvement in this bullying came to light. I have returned to Postgraduate study (which he disapproves of). About 3 weeks ago, my husband was taken seriously ill and ended up in Hospital (Intensive Care). I was scared and worried. I have gone no-contact with my parents for some time now, but in my panic due to my husband’s hospitalization, I decided to phone my parents to let them know my husband was very ill. I did not expect a response, but out of the blue my father showed up at my front door. As soon as I opened it, he was aggressive, shouting, ranting and raving. He was accusing me and my husband of being “nuisances” and demanded to know “what I wanted out of him”. He then started raving that “if I wanted something I had better change my attitude and never again mention the past” (I have omitted the swear words he used). I kept trying to tell him I wanted nothing, except to say my husband was ill (I hoped he might at least have some feelings of sympathy for my husband’s plight). My father kept ignoring this, and then launched into criticisms of me that went well back into the past (even though he insists that I am not allowed to talk about the past). During his tirade, he started shouting at me for doing Postgraduate study, and kept asking when I will complete the course. I kept trying to explain to him that I have been unwell myself, and have had a lot of surgery (which he already knows about) but he just ignored me. Then he started shouting “When are you getting a proper job? Do you have a job? Do you still have that dirty job?”. That shocked me because I knew then what he was referring to (my Social Work career). I told him that I had left my last Social Work job because of bullying, and then he looked me straight in the eye and turned round and said “oh that’s something you’ll just have to learn to get used to”. He made it clear that he KNEW I’d been bullied, AND that he APPROVED of it. I realized then that the personal information that had been spread round my workplace could only have come from my father. You might be interested to know that as a self-employed worker, he works on contracts with the same Local Authority that employed me as a Social Worker. So, he had every opportunity to spread malicious gossip.
I have described the above to you, in the hope that it sheds some light on what goes on between a narcissist and victim. I firmly believe my father IS a narcissist; he has ALWAYS to be right, ALWAYS thinks he knows best; HIS word is law; HIS version of events is the only viable version; HE has to have the last word; HE only talks about things that interest HIM or about subjects where HE feels authoritable. He is nit-picking, two-faced, ignorant, vain, bad-tempered, foul-mouthed, unsupportive, cruel, selfish, immature, unavailable emotionally and physically. He verbally assaults, physically assaults, criticizes and twists things (especially what is said). He is intimidating, and has little respect for personal space or boundaries (an example is that when he starts raging at you, he will get very close up and in your face – it feels like he’s going to hit you). He refuses to explain himself, to talk about the past, or about my upbringing. He hides things and keeps secrets. He is evasive. He does not share of himself, or volunteer any information about himself. He is a “dark horse” and a “closed book” all in one. I feel that I know him only about as well as the average stranger!
Having worked in Mental Health Services myself, I truly believe that the victims of narcissists are not well understood or well supported. I can look at all the replies to your post, including the most recent (Peter) and see parallels with what I have lived through. I cannot help but ask WHY? WHY are there so many victims suffering? WHY are the victims of narcissists so lacking help? WHY do services fail to meet their needs and cater for them? I really, really cannot understand. The following things puzzle me…
WHY do so many people fall for narcissists, get convinced by them, believe them?
WHY are so few people able to spot narcissists and recognize what they are?
WHY do people seem to aid and abet them, rather than “outing”, challenging or rejecting the narcissist?
WHY doesn’t society react more towards narcissists – for example making sure they are Sectioned under the Mental Health Act, or somehow receive diagnosis and treatment?
WHY are narcissists allowed/permitted to achieve their goals – for example, getting away with abuse, lying about qualifications, cheating their way to promotions, living “double lives”, destroying victim’s careers or educations or marriages?
WHY are the victims of narcissists so often overlooked, disbelieved, or accused of being “crazy”?
WHY does victim blaming so often take place?
WHY is there so little specific, targeted help for the victims of narcissists who so often have to rebuild their whole lives?
WHY don’t the Police, Social Services, The NHS and others do more to a) understand and learn about narcissists and how abusive they are, and b) protect victims?
Personally, I feel that some thing has gone badly wrong, and that we now have a society that (deliberately, or perhaps inadvertently) aids and abets narcissists. Our modern society seems to reward narcissistic traits. Ironically, this brings to mind the book that I read by Babiak & Hare “Snakes In Suits”, which is all about the fact that narcissists and psychopaths THRIVE in modern society – their ruthlessness and selfishness and constant desire for attention and status gets them wealth, promotion at work, status symbols, flattery and admirers. People nowadays seem to be more swayed by “blag” and “swagger” than ever before, and this suits narcissists who love to talk the talk but not walk the walk. For example, if an employer is too easily impressed by employees who brag and bluster, then the wrong people may be promoted (quiet staff who conscientiously get on with their jobs may be overlooked) – the environment is created in which a narcissist may thrive. Our society in general is too obsessed with status symbols – flash cars and the like. We equate these automatically with ability and success, even though this is not necessarily true (e.g. a person may have a large house, but also a massive mortgage and debts die to living beyond his means). The problem seems to be that many humans believe what they see. But, this is only superficial. Narcissists are utterly SUPERFICIAL, but a society that falls for the superficial will always get caught out by this.
You show that there is a need to ask questions. Pointed questions. The right questions. There is a need to look deeper. To hear the victim’s perspective. To never take at face value what any person claims to be. A narcissist may claim to be whatever suits the situation at that point in time. They do lead “double lives – “Jekyll and Hyde” as has so often been described. They know how to impress people, and are devious enough to make sure that the abuse they carry out is hidden. They present as one thing to the people they want to impress, or fool; but another thing altogether to their chosen victim.
Society NEEDS to know this. We all need to be aware of narcissists and the damage they do.
Hi Christine, thank you for the great insights into narcissistic behaviour and its huge impact on the victim, most of which I can relate to directly.
Many of the posts here are about people married to a narcissist; my own experience has been a mix of work and family. My mother was without doubt a narcissist. I was her ‘golden child’ and this has caused me huge problems. I was smothered, constantly guilt-tripped, had every ounce of confidence stripped from me (‘you’ll never survive without me’) and was never allowed to become independent. I became a perfectionist and tripped into a breakdown when I was 18. I finally managed to break free with the help of a wonderful woman (who would later become my wife). My mother has however been a huge negative influence on us over the years with constant demands and hateful criticism and it is only recently after many years of abuse that I have rejected my enmeshment with her and gone ‘no contact’.
Unfortunately that isn’t the worst part of it. My brother is a successful
businessmen. We fought a lot as kids, as was inevitable with our highly dysfunctional upbringing, and were never close as adults. Then he invited me to be part of one of his businesses. I eagerly accepted despite having heard some stories about bad behaviour on his part over the years. At first I noticed small things, like he would make you chase him for days just to return a phone call, or he would fix a meeting at a strange time and then turn up late (or not at all) making everyone wait for him. He would expect an instant response if he needed anything and would often give a very poor brief but expect ‘perfection’ in return, rubbishing anything that didn’t meet his expectations. Over time I watched him surround himself with a carefully selected group of sycophants who would never question him and who openly adored him. He would not tolerate any dialogue, challenge or constructive criticism. All communications between the senior people were directed through him, he made every decision and micro managed anyone who was not part of his trusted inner circle. He would not hesitate to use aggression to ‘sort out’ anyone who stepped out of line. He would not hesitate to tell direct lies and manipulate people to get them where he needed them to be. He displayed nil empathy for those around him and his impact on them, myself included.
As an independent and professional person who believes in honesty and integrity I found all of this to be very stressful. I soon became regarded by him as a threat and I was isolated and bullied, both overtly and covertly, over a period of several years. It has taken a huge toll on my wellbeing.
When I finally plucked up the courage to leave I thought I would be fine but I ended up having a breakdown and severe depression. I was unable to wok for an extended period and suffered low confidence, anger, anxiety, flashbacks and other disturbing symptoms. I have also felt intense shame and guilt for putting my wonderful wife through a very traumatic period and significantly hurting our financial security, despite her assurances that I did the right thing in leaving.
I wonder sometimes if I will ever truly recover from my experience and be able to enjoy life again, as I did prior to it. I am certainly not ‘out of the woods’ by a long way and am in the early stages of a tentative recovery, taking each day as it comes. It is an experience I will never forget.
Thank you. As a survivor of a 20 year marriage to a covert aggressive narcissist, I have gained so much healing and recovery through insight, validation and a truly healthy, emotionally corrective relationship. However, it is still a struggle, as “no contact” is not an option when you are supposed to “co-parent” (ha!) 4 children together and remain dependent on financial support. Seeing his name pop up in an email box can still make me physically shake. Functioning socially in his presence when it is unavoidable requires a level of dissociation. What makes it toughest of all is that the circle of validation and reality checking will always be limited to the very few actually close enough to SEE. He is the most sophisticated deceiver, manipulator and impression manager I have ever seen. So covert and the package so squeaky clean– your comments about the tactics being of the order of CIA tools resonated completely. It is CIA-Level technique, embedded thoroughly in personality, and it is very difficult to show to others not willing to look at the level needed to see and understand how insidious and debilitating something can be without physical violence or overt verbal abuse — the exact opposite, in fact: silence, carefully crafted words, withholding of touch and affection, and so forth. I would absolutely choose obvious, severe verbal abuse or physical beating to this. And he is expert at making me feel and appear to be the “crazy” one (while he is such a champ for “putting up with me”.)
Anyway, thank you, and please, please continue to spread knowledge and understanding. Victims encounter so much continued invalidation from professionals due to lack of knowledge and skill in this area!
Thankyou so much for your information. I got out of my marriage afte 36 years, unbelievable, I was put through my paces with him, all of the above mentioned especially the gaslighting until I couldnt make my mind up which dish to cook a leg of lamb in, one was too high and one was too low. I knew it was time to get out, I had almost stopped functioning and nearly completely cracked up. When the damage had finally become so awful and he decided to run off with my very good friend and set up home with her, the mask finally dropped and I could see him for what he really was. Before that I was in such denial. I have been through absolute hell, but picked myself up and been through a lot of therapy, and been to self help groups. In fact I now help to run one. My question is I am in another relationship and I am so scared of making the same mistakes. I dont think I will ever be cured but hopefully I am learning to live with myself. I want to get on with my life but I am cursed with the idea that I may be making the same mistakes over. Every time I hear a critical comment I immediately go into victim mode and wander is this man a narcissist. I cant always see the wood for the trees. I am trying to take it slowly but I do worry that I will make the same mistakes
thank you so much for all this information. It has been enormously helpful. I only learned a few months ago that I was married to a narcissist for 22 years. Been divorced 2 years but have suffered deep depression, anxiety, agoraphobia, and inability to move forward in life and felt out of resources, at the end of the rope. It would have been easy to kill myself to end the pain. It has been a slow recovery. Now I know I am not alone in my feelings. It is so helpful to have the validation from others when friends and family don’t believe you or take it seriously. Best to all in their journey to heal and finding joy in life again.
Hi
My ex is blaming me for being a narcissist and aftera six-year relationship he now suffers from Nvs. I read these articles in an attempt to relate and determine if I am truely a narcissist. My conclusion thus far is that I am not. I agree that some of my habits and how I treated him were narcissistic but being gay, most of the signs of npd are part of day to day life as a gay man living in the closet. Since coming to terms with my sexuality I have improved so much. Accepting myself and thereby becoming a better person in all aspects. I wonder if a link has been made between being gay and not out and narcissistic characteristics? It hurts me everyday that I unintentionaly hurt someone I loved dearly. The blame is intense. I would love to provide a bigget picture and add more content to my experience if you would be open to it?
I was married to a man with NPD for 16 years. He filed divorce papers before even telling with the reason that we don’t communicate anymore. I found out he had been cheating on me for years. Because of his NPD, his family was completed blinded and supported his decision to leave his family of 16 years. We have 3 girls together, and he has visitation with his favorite one. It causes huge amounts of fights between the kids. I never even heard of NPD until going through the divorce. It describes him perfectly. I am trying to heal and gain back my self-esteem, but I can’t get away from him because of my daughter. I am thankful that I can read that others have suffered through this as well and that I am not alone.
abusive people are disordered with BPD or NPD etc. As the child of an NPD ive realised in the last 5 years that it was not my fault I ended up with 2 partners the same. I lean towards codepence for sure.
The light bulb moment happened last year with the charming boyfriend who attached himself to me, he was a victim of childhood abuse etc. He was popular intelligent and held down a great job.
By far the most extreme full blown narcissist in my life to date, made me examine myself after serious emotional abuse.
In truth the problem is the result of certain abuse features like withdrawal of affection on a whim, silent treatment & scapegoating blame onto the victim which should be part of school education. As an adult my gut told me this was wrong, but it seemed petty to give up on a seemingly good relationship for this sort of unprovable abuse. The abuser could site cooling off as the reason for not responding to his phone or text. He would cite something I’d said as the cause for rage, he never answered a direct question brushing it aside as trivial.
NPD are highly dangerous, they are so callous, cruel, they will hurt their children if it serves some perverse need.
The problem is that normal people can’t deal with motivation to harm, exploit and abuse whilst believing they are fully justified to behave this way. It’s not human as such.
Hi KR, Here is someone who knows all about narcissistic abuse. Even if she is not near you, she may do telephone counselling with you, give her a shout. Her name is Andrea Schneider, LPC: http://www.andreaschneiderlcsw.com/ Hope that is of some help. Christine
There are no therapists here in Central coast California that are trained in NVS recovery/NPD. Searches online produce no results. All that’s offered is help for PTSD. I need help. NOW.
This is a nightmare.
Please include parents whom are victims of narcissistic adult children when writing about NVD. Elderly parents are suffering by the millions in this present generation. Please don’t overlook our particular situations. Thank you.
This article has been one of the most helpful resources I have found in learning to recover from years of narcissistic abuse from my mother. I have discussed it with my therapist several times..so thank you.
One thing that strikes me from reading several of the comments are from some ‘concerned mothers’ stating that their child may have developed into a narcissist.
These comments are somewhat triggering for me.
From all the evidence, it would seem unlikely that NPD would just spontaneously occur in someone without growing up in an insecure environment.
This is along the lines of something my own mother would say. I have provided everything for you and gave you a wonderful childhood and met all your needs.
Yet for some reason, you are having issues.
Part of the recovery is learning to see things for how they truly are…and not believe my mother when she disclaims any responsibly.
A non-narcissistic mother would say, ‘I realize I may have done some things that have hurt you in your childhood and I apologize for that , and I sincerely would be open to exploring if there is anything I could do you help in your recovery.’
Recovery needs to come from within and requires the development of healthy boundaries, especially to the internal voice of the mother ‘inside your head’ saying ‘I did everything for you’
To be honest, I don’t even have the energy to write out my story. I’m currently separated from my husband, and since our separation have spent hours reading up on and learning about NPD. I am fascinated with so many articles and stories that are describing MY HUSBAND!! and now this incredible article also describing me. What I would really like to do is find a therapist that maybe specializes in or has a good understanding of NPD. I tried search with NPD as a specialty, but that got me nowhere. So that’s my question…..how do I find a therapist with a good working knowledge of NPD?
I have a 30 yr old son who appears to have traits of NPD. Is there a certain age when this starts developing? I was there for him and gave him the attention and met his needs , was a stay at home mom and enjoyed having and raising him and his brothers. Reading the article caused me to think that his condition is somehow my fault and that is not a good feeling. He had many diagnosis as he was growing up, ADD, PTSD, bipolar, defiant disorder and maybe more. However the behaviors describing NPD, seem evident in his life. He is married and I feel for his wife as she can not seem to do anything right, in his opinion. I could not take it if I were her. She wants to stay with him, as they have 2 kids and she does not want to break up the family. I appreciate the article, it has shed some light on things for me.
I need help very badly. I was with mine 6 years total. At 4 years he left our home without even telling me and moved in with an old lady and her 22 year old granddaughter. Tho she was almost his daughters age I know there was something going on. He turned into a monster. Hacked my email, found out my car had a small engine fire and 3 days later wrote the insurance fraud division in our state and said I had told him I planned to do it for insurance money. I owed 8500.00 on a buy here pay here heap of junk that was a 2001 and worth about 3K. I was arrested tho. I think the detective and judge must have been golfing buddies. It was thrown out of court after a year and after a fire expert with credentials including the Twin Towers was flown in to look at the car. Also his new supply, 22 year old reunited with her husband and he wanted me back.Cried like a newborn at my window and I was stupid enough to let him have round 2 with me. Swore he loved me but the verbal abuse escalated, he shoved me so hard in my back my disc pressed against my spinal cord that controls my breathing, I almost died. Emergency surgery. Threw a pair of folded jeans and hit me in the face so hard it gave me a nosebleed and black eye. He lied constantly. Was a porn addict. Caught him on skype with hoes. His address book I stumbled upon just recently included a pedophile male. And lots of women and Craigslist ads. He spit in my face, gave me the silent treatment and started with holding sex. I was trauma bonded at 6 years and the only thing that got him away from me was him leaving me for a mentally retarded drug addict girl down the street who looks like a guy on new years eve.. My life is in ruins. I cant feel happiness, fear love, don’t like people anymore, have PTSD, thoughts of suicide, feel like what is the use of anything anymore. He made me believe I was the love of his life and made me feel so special and I know I wont ever be that happy again. also in the beginning the sex was something I had never experienced before, I weapon to lure me I read. I know another experience wont compare with another after him. Where do I go from here? I’m 53 but look 38. Except my eyes look haunted. I lost my soul to this monster
I’m helping a sister leave her NPD husband. He does not know this yet. It’s not easy but we are gathering hours of tape (lots of verbal abuse). Our state is a ‘one party state’ when it comes to wire tapping laws. (We really, really need to get the legal profession up to speed on this condition…which so often results in the N winning the divorce). Thank you for your information on NVS. If it is a recognized DSM disorder, we hope to apply damages to our divorce claim. Can you give me an estimate (dollar amount) for the therapy that would be needed to try to heal the years of abuse to 3 victims? Sister (the soon to be x-wife) – 28 years. Two kids – about 25 & 26 years of continued abuse. If you know of any other cases where the plaintiff prevailed with this claim, please let me know so we can use that case to support ours. Thanks – Support Sister
I’ve recently just learned about NPD and NVS. Fascinating. Had no idea what I was going through was due to a Disorder from my partner and the Syndrome that has affected me being a victim. It’s a classic case. Done the dance twice each time. We recently split up. I AM OUT THANKFULLY. I’m relieved. I’m torn between telling her that she has this disorder. I think she might freak out. I’d like to see her admit to having it and seek counseling. Please advise whether this would a prudent thing to tell her or should I just stay clear of my ex-partner and be thrilled that I’m finally away from her. I greatly appreciate your insight.
I always Think about why I permitted him to damage me so much…. It make me sad.. He didnt respected me at all..
What to do about these kind of thoughts?
Sometimes i ask myself was he really a narcissist?
I keep ask myself and its like I want someone to say ” yes”
He is! Dont know why, cause I SEE that I goo through all these
Symptoms.. Well I guess its not normal to have post traumatic stress And depression after a normal relationship?
In the last of the relationship( one year) his true face came out and I was beginning to SEE that actually something was wrong.. He was so cold, ignored and rejected me so much,
He was beginning to use silent treatment ( like in a whole week) and even if I told him that it was cruel and made me very sad he was still doing it at me like I meant nothing to him.. I was completely devastated always thought what kind of wrong things did I?! Always thought it was my fault.. And if I told him that he should say sorry for ignoring me so much, he couldnt SEE his fault and said that ” if I had not done something wrong i wont say sorry ” in a so cold manner like without empathy..
After he ended the relationship like to weeks after, I was in shock because he got married to some another woman in a so short time!
Is this woman his new supply?
Please tell me is it me what am I going through now?
Hello Missy,
I’ve just read your post. Get help now! You need to get help for yourself so that you can experience a little bit of heaven here, now, in this life. Yes it is possible, you can be free from this abuse Missy. Believe it, others have been in the same boat and they found the strength to get out and get help. There are therapists and people out there that can listen to you and understand you and help you. Find them. They are waiting for you. No one can take this step but you. I am sure Christine will respond to your post soon and she can guide you more specifically and professionally ! I am the wife of a narcissistic abuse victim. I am an observer and a supporter and I know from experience that getting some help in the form of a therapist is the best thing you can do for yourself. All the best to you Missy.
Narcissist parents and husband have completely ruined my life. I am a pile of rubbish. Both my husband and my father have tried to kill me numerous times. I feel so awful, suicidal thoughts, loss of interest, depression, you guys know the drill. They are always saying horrible lies about me. I am just waiting to die. I can’t wait to go to heaven. I stopped having physicals and I don’t take good care of myself anymore. I dream about heaven all the time. I live in my room all the time. I have horrible post traumatic stress disorder from my husband trying to put life insurance on me and killing me. This is awful. Even on a good day I feel horrible and have these awful doom feelings. I hate this life, i don’t understand these evil people. I tried to kill myself twice.
Hi MusiqPsyche, One of the most difficult things victims have to contend with is not being believed or understood. You sound like a great friend, you are giving the best support while validating his abuse by this ex, that is invaluable. Narcissists do damage to the victim on many levels of the self, so he may need to go to a professional if he is traumatized from the relationship and unable to move on. You cannot really do that work, but you could encourage your friend to seek out a therapist to work with. Just keep doing what you are doing, that is the best support you can give, but you also need to take care of yourself, because victims go through a period of obsessing which is exhausting for them and the people who support them. Christine
Thank you so much for this!!!! I personally am not and have not been with anyone who was has NPD, but my roommate/best friend was in 2 year relationship with a NPD. The three of us lived together until things started become too much and the NPD had to move back home across state to his parents to seek help after the relationship ended for the first time, and I was threatened with physical harm. They tried to work things out a few times but my friend just couldn’t deal with it any more and officially broke things off, but the NPD ex is continuously attempting to pull him back into the “dance”. My friend has realized that this is NPD and is taking steps to better himself and get the help that he needs so that he can be more successful in life and his career. He has also shared a lot of information with me about the disorder and I’ve been trying to be supportive and there for him, but I do not know what I should do to make to help. This page has a LOT of information for the abuser and the abused, but what about for the people who are trying to support someone who working on getting better? I want to do everything that I can to help him but I do not know where to start.
Hi Crazy Caine, I understand your embarrassment, all victims feel that way. Caught between still feeling loyal towards the narcissist in our life, or feeling quite silly and pathetic. Of course we should not feel that way, we need to scream it off the rooftops so other people can learn how to spot these people before getting hooked…… that is why I wrote my book The Three Faces of Evil: Unmasking the Full Spectrum of Narcissistic Abuse (incidentally, the physical book goes up on Amazon this week), the eBook you can get immediately on my website (https://narcissisticbehavior.net/book/ ). The truth is that you don’t really miss her, you are finding your life more peaceful without her…..but what you are missing is the “illusion” that she presented to you in the beginning, during the Idealization Stage, before the devaluing began. We all miss that, and keep hanging on longer than we should in the hope of finding that person once again…… but never do, unless being manipulated into something they want from us….. then they turn on the charm and seduction once again, we think we have the original person back……… and we fall, again, giving them permission to continue with the same terrible treatment. You are not alone in how you feel, it is common to go through this, is it part of the healing process. Regards. Christine
I’m in a position where I’m embarrassed to talk about my experience with my NPD wife, but it’s necessary for me to share and receive feedback. It’s crazy because from the outside looking in, they can never understand it, and from the inside looking out, I can never explain it.
13 years ago, she was the best thing that happened to me. I look back now and realize the signs and red flags that I decided to ignore. I have a high tolerance for putting up with people’s BS and she sniffed it out. 4 years married, and now I’m the worst person on the planet; similar to her ex when our relationship started. I’ve found out about multiple affairs, some of which were with my close acquaintances, and others with complete strangers, even other women. I noticed her envy of my real friendships with others; as she had no real friends. She pushed them all away. It’s so clear now what has happened, but I’m struggling as I continue to ask “why?”.
Mainly because I can’t distinguish what was real and what was a her manipulative fabrication. My feelings were fully vested, but what did she really mean when she told me that she loved me; that she couldn’t live without me? I have to forget the “why” and focus on my future. I am actually doing much better without all of the chaos, drama, and constant fighting. My days now are peaceful. But I miss her. Well; do I miss “her” or do I miss the companionship? This really sucks…
Oh Christine, I am scared to death here. I opened an email address for myself – I think, anyway. I have never done anything like this before. You see, I am 65 and have been married for 45 yrs. to what I now know is a narcissist. It has been a very slow discovery, back to when I saw Patricia Evans on Oprah with her book “The Verbally Abusive Relationship”. This was my first wake-up call to trying to figure out why my marriage was so troubled. For decades I have kept dairies and journals with entries trying so desperately to figure out why our arguments went awry. I married into an Eastern European immigrant family that did not welcome me – my husband was the “golden child”, I was an intruder. I have lived a bit of hell on earth with this. My background is Irish Catholic – I’m the oldest of 7, went to an all girls school and had a generally gentle and happy life. I endured much criticism from his family – things like “what’s wrong with her?” We had two children, my husband always sided with his mother, an extremely narcissistic child like person – everyone had to adore her. A couple of years ago, I googled “angry, sense of entitlement, needs praise, lack of empathy”. And OMG – my world went from Black & White – to color. In the sense that out of the gray soup – I saw something clear – I mean clear. It all became clear – I saw the word “Narcissistic Personality Disorder”. And damn, there it was. When I read about it, I kept thinking, OMG, yes, yes, this is it. And as I read further, it fell on me what I have endured. And that there are others who have been on this sad path.
I have had, along with a lot of other people as well it turns out, what is referred to as “The Confusion Technique” (which you can go to the website Sanctuary for the Abused-Confusion Technique & read some info about it; as it is a form of mind control, brainwashing, mental programming, hypnotic trance states (which the perp can program in both mental terrorization tactics, physical torture tactics, acts of rape & pedophilia etc…, as it can even be deadly as it is dangerous for some random moron to accidentally get their hands on through other means & make use of in an abusive way, as there is a form used by the military(s) to use the programming on soldiers going into combat subliminally as far as programming in the tactics/strategies for fighting in the war, but it is programmed into the Soldiers subconscious minds, by Authorized Officials, with Proper Issuance, to be done & remain running through in a controlled environment & continual manner. They program in the tactics subliminally, which the Soldier then acts upon on a conscious level, however, if they become a Prisoner of War, the enemy is unable to get the tactics of their side of the military fighting in the war out of the P.O.W.’s mind without it coming out all jumbled up & confusing. Plus they put the soldiers into Emotional Hypnotic Trance States to make it less difficult for them to be fighting in a war & having to kill people & lose fellow soldiers & such on their side. Also if a Soldier becomes a P.O.W., if they are put through any type of mental &/or physical torture tactics they can get through it a slight bit easier than without being in these types of Hypnotic trance States, & to keep their levels of PTSD at bay as much as possible. The person who has used this tactic against my, & many other people’s minds & bodies, is a female who goes by the name Rocky, but her real name is Cheryl. I used to date her son, Luke, & she is married for the time being to a member of the military by the name Sterling Hill. She & I have used the same psychiatrist/parapsychologist, as my Mom had used this Dr. (Dr. Roland Holt, Jr. in Columbus, GA) for a # of years & referred Rocky to him quite a few years back). I am ADHD & sometimes suffer from anxiety, especially going through these types of circumstances, which is one of the main reasons I also began seeing DR. Holt in October of 2013; However on my 2nd visit we started talking & he asked me what I had been up to & I told him at that time that I had been studying Spiritual Warfare very intensely (which I began studying within a few months after this whole situation began to spiral out of control & the tactics that Rocky had ended up getting her hands on & continuing to use in massive amounts against people subliminally & telepathically, & I kept catching Spiritual Warfare thru mid-air, & I got launched into a very extreme level of Spiritual Warfare in February of 2011, I almost ended up dying on Feb. 25th, 2011, & ended up in the ER in Sensory Overload) anyway once I told DR. Holt about studying Spiritual Warfare, he stopped me dead in my tracks, & said he needed to ask me a few questions & just to answer them honestly, so I did, & he jumped up & said, I was under a major Psychic Attack (also known as negative mental energy attachments you can go to a website called mkprojects.com & they have info on these types of things, plus you can go to Wikipedia & look up things under clairvoyance, things called clairaudience, clairsentience & such which is like elevated telepathy & telekinesis/psychokinesis, which is part of how they program in acts of rape/pedophilia physical torture tactics of all kinds, when thy use subliminal messaging & stimuli & compress your conscious energy waves into the back of your mind in an awake state, like creating an altered state of consciousness, by layering their mental energy, that comes out of their damaged electromagnetic field, from detaching from God & toying around with the what myself, & others, including my Dr.’s & Pastors have stated is the true work of the energy that exist on that plane called Hell right above the earths atmosphere, where the energy of what is known as the devil, Satan etc… resides, & she chose to hang out, & as she so boldly admits at this point has been dabbling in witchcraft since 1977. she actually had the nerve to send me text messages admitting to poking me with pins & asked me if it felt good, & said something along the lines in another message that if I would wear a tin foil hat, maybe then she wouldn’t mind raping me, & all kinds of other crazy stuff. Well she is aware that I turned this situation into the Military base/Feds to be deprogrammed & to unlock her energy attachments where she sealed them into other people’s energy fields with the very intense doses of hypnotic trance states associated with what the Military uses, that yes when abused becomes The Confusion Technique, forms of Mind Control, brainwashing, mental programming, & hypnotic trance states, that cause people a lot of problems, & the officials who are trying to finish up cleaning up her disaster, & seal her energy back up into her own energy field, will finally be able to arrest & charge her with the illegal use of these methods to commit these crimes & she will be charged with the crimes she committed by using these methods, against all of the people she has victimized & sent to federal prison until the day she dies. She is not only a NPD, but a complete Sociopath. Anyway you can check these things on line & consult with Psychiatrists/Parapsychologist/Pastors/Holistic Dr.’s & Members of the Military who are familiar with these kind of tactics & the laws against them. I created a like page on Facebook called Infinite Wisdom, where I post a variety of info related to this type of thing & Holistic Practices & such. Just keep me & others in your prayers if you don’t mind while we endure the very end of this long process & all that this awful bitch has put Humanity & even God through with the things she tampered with & shifting the Universe out of balance & holding people & God prisoner in the Spiritual Planes by her having created a pretty disastrous Massive level of Spiritual Warfare, & she honestly does not care, she has no conscience, no Soul. Thank You Peace & God Bless-Ginger Vassy
Oh! Saya, Unfortunately your story is common, but that is cold comfort indeed. Of course you love him and the children, but really, he is using you the way he uses everybody else….. and what is more, he feels entitled to anything he gets from you. Are you being fair to your husband, you need to ask yourself that question, biological or otherwise, he should not be the one footing the bills for a grown man at this stage of life. Only 38, and already three marriages…… narcissists are wonderful manipulators, even in the courts, perhaps his wife was not suitable to have the children, but are you sure he did not make getting the kids part of his revenge on his wife. I say that, because you say that you are mostly looking after the children….. if he wanted them so much that he fraught for them in the courts, why isn’t he being the parent. He is using the kids against you now, you are held to ransom because of “guilt”…… and he knows that. He has a cheek moving in a new wife into your home, but unfortunately you are allowing it. He is a taker, and takers need their givers. I hope you will get strong enough to put healthy boundaries in place… but this could end up costing you your marriage if you are not careful. Who owns your house? If you do, then he may want it as his inheritance…. may be worried about your husband having it if anything happens to you.
I understand these people understand narcissistic abuse, give them a ring and talk to the, They are both in Texas:
Shannon Thomas, LCSW-S: http://southlakecounseling.org/when-a-christian-meets-a-sociopath/
Les Carter, PhD: http://www.drlescarter.com/
You may have to fall out with him before you can ask him to leave. Let them know they can stay up to a certain date, but you need them to have their own place with the children by then. We will find out then how much he wants the children…. don’t be surprised if he tells you the children are better off with you. If you agree, then you are putting a noose around your own neck, and your husbands. Perhaps they would be better off back with their mother, if she loves them. So sorry to hear your story, it is so so sad, but the saddest thing is that it is possible that he is not going to change. Warmest regards.
I am the parent of a 38 year old male that I believe to be narcissistic. I have terrible guilt about how I may have contributed to his developing into a narcissist. He uses people up, is NEVER responsible for his choices, and will say anything that will help him get his way. He graduated from college with a degree in a field that is highly competitive and requires an agreeable personality – since he is far from agreeable, and has no work experience in the field I doubt he ill find employment any time soon in his field (he expects to land a top job from the get-go — no working up jobs for him!). He is divorced, and has full custody of his children (believe it or not his ex had so many issues, per the courts, he was awarded custody). We (my husband and I, my husband is not his biological father and came into the picture after my son was an adult), have “helped” him so many times, that means “loaned” or just our right footed the bill to keep him and the boys of the street, that I can’t even count the times (or money). Yet, we have “never been there for him” (his words not mine).
I am at a loss for knowing what to do next. He and his family (his 3rd wife) are now living with us (we’ve had the kids for most of this year, he and his new bride moved in a little over a month ago), I am pretty sure I could throw him out and say I’ve had enough – I love you, but I can’t help you anymore, but what about the kids? At this point they come to us for their needs.
Truly I could go on and on and on – but that would be venting and my story so closely matches so many that have posted here! I just need to find help!!!
I live in EAst Texas, is there help in this area of the US where I might be able to get help for me – for the kids – for my son?
Brian,
I’ve found active support groups @
There are some online support groups.
http://outofthefog.net/forum/
http://www.psychforums.com/narcissistic-personality/
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Adult-ChildrenOFNarcissits/info
http://narcissisticpersonalitydisoderfamilyforum.yuku.com/
http://lightshouse.org/lights-blog/welcome#axzz2PrUwiVGJ
http://www.lisaescott.com/
http://bnarcissisticabuserecovery.runboard.com/
I hope this helps
Can anyone refer me to an active support forum online, I’ve found a few but there doesn’t seem to be much activity on them! I’m a child of a severe Narc father and have spoken very little about this to anyone all thru childhood or as an adult, I’ve been in his sites again for the last couple of years again, he’s done great harm to me socially and as hard as it is to admit mentally, I thought I had things under control, moving 200 miles away 10 years ago and going back to my home town less and less as years went by, not realizing all the lies he was spreading behind my back to friends and family, just recently heard a few, I thought maybe he would mello out with age but has gotten completely out of control, my big problem is fighting back the anger and hatred I have for him, there’s so much more to this story it’s crazy, he accually drove 200 miles with his little side kick wife and took all of 2 minutes to start his “Tyrant Bully King” routine and only another 3 or 4 minutes before I kicked them out of my house, this is the 5th or 6th time he’s done this in 5 five years, totally caught me off guard, I have some serious medical issues and would have trouble even defending myself (physically), he’s done enough to me and my brothers since childhood (drove my mother, poor thing, to her grave in 1983), I can’t stop the anger and am afraid of doing something stupid, I haven’t returned any of his nasty calls in a year, that’s way he drove up here, now telling everyone he was just concerned and look how I am, by not telling people about this all thru out my life is making it hard for them to believe me, we all kept our mouths shut for the most part we all had our own reasons, the clown lies right to my face knowing this, I can’t seem to focus on anything else right now and I fear it will destroy me! I just pray that there isn’t too many like him out there, I feel dearly for those that are living with this! Thanks.
Both of my parents were narcissists. I got away from them as soon as I could, and I have not allowed another narcissist in my life. In fact, I’m very good at spotting a narcissist in a short span of time. So no, I do not and have never had narcissistic victim syndrome, as I never voluntarily took abuse from my parents or another narcissist. I have been abused by narcissists in the workplace as an adult, and I have fought back; usually the corporation or company takes the side of the perpetrator and does nothing to help the target. Children have no choice. It’s insulting and false to imply that children or even adults who have been targeted are somehow responsible for being the targets of any form of sociopathy. Narcissists are evil, they and only they are responsible for their actions.
Hi MarieS, You say: “And so, my question is what can I do for my friend to make sure that I am a good friend to her?” The answer to that is Simple. Just be real, and from time to time, ask her how she is doing. She may feel you are too vulnerable with all that you are dealing with to bother you with her little worries……. true relationships are about reciprocity, where there is room for both “giving and taking”. Don’t be afraid to be vulnerable with each other, it is in vulnerability that we truly see the other. Regards. Christine
As someone who lived 30 years with a man I surmise was/is a narcissist I feel quite broken as a human being after so long and harsh treatment at his every whim, over anything or nothing. Part of that, as you have described, I think, is that I have ended up so unsure of myself. Nearly every day he would berate me for most of what I tried to speak of and or about. As a consequence of this I am fearful of saying the wrong thing to anyone. Even now in this, I am unsure.
In the last 2 years my best friend has been with me through so much of my personal bewilderment and feelings of uncertainty that I fear exhausting her!
Isolation is a huge problem for me, and she is usually my only outlet. The man I spent tortourous years with isolated me from friends and family for so long that I feel ill prepared in the friendship department. Other than to give to her from my heart. She lives a distance away from me and we are unable to see each other. The difficulty that I worry about from my point in the friendship stems from, I think, that I have so little to share as a human being with her, as far as stories, life stories, GOOD STORIES, the usual things that would make a friendship more enjoyable. And so, my question is what can I do for my friend to make sure that I am a good friend to her.
Thank you!
In the last few days, with the help of a friend who knows my story, I have taken steps to ensure, (hopefully), NO CONTACT. When I dialed my former telephone number myself and heard the disconnected message I felt a small sense of pride in taking a first step, a small step, but a step nonetheless. Also I fear where his attacks will come from now? Maybe this will end it once and for all.
He kept me from friends and family for 30 years and he still does so in the manifestation of how unsure I am of myself. There has to be a total exhaustion factor connected to being a friend with me. That is very discouraging and shame inducing. The theft of me leaves me feeling so vulnerable, (feeling a need to be comforted, something I have not had a lot of), I fear people shaking their heads and ridiculing me over that.That which I am accustomed to.
For me there is a hesitation to use the term victim. Doesn’t society often times ridicule that word and those who have truly been victimized? Simply put, I am just a human that allowed myself to be stolen, and I have no idea how to right it or talk about it without driving what connections I do have away. It is so hard to come to terms with everything and find belonging with those you wish to belong with. It is at times what feels to be an insurmountable obstacle. And questionable as to if there is any reason to try. At this stage who needs more rejection and ridicule? Thank you for your reply and the space to speak here. Happy Saturday!
Thank you Lynn, I really do care. My life is dedicated to fighting for victims, whether it is answering emails, working one-to-one with them, educating other therapists so that they understand the level of abuse victims are exposed to, and educating outside of my field, (i.e police, social workers, doctors. solicitors, courts, etc.)…….indeed, I want to reach anybody who deals with the fallout of this terrible epidemic we call Narcissistic Abuse. Take care. Christine
thank you so much for your reply. such a long reply, makes me think you actually care and that itself is comforting. thank you again.
Hi Marie, I understand all that you said. However, do you realize how unkind you are being to yourself. If a good friend told you they had been run over by a bus, and that they felt so injured as a result……. what would you say? And if that same friend went on to say that they felt deeply ashamed that they had been run over by a bus…… again, what would you say?
You would say what I am going to say to you, and that is. It sounds to me as if you have been totally crushed, and this has injured you on every level of yourself (mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually). It was not your fault, you were a target, and your were victimized to the point of losing your identity. But there is life after narcissistic abuse, I know that for sure…. however one needs to heal first.
Your identity has gone into hiding, but it is still there, but it has to be encouraged to come back out again. It is trying to protect itself so it does not get further damaged. The feelings of intense shame and worthlessness can be worked on in the therapy room, it just needs a bit of time and effort to bring your shining soul to the front again. The good news is that your heart is in tact…… he did not manage to destroy that either……. you have a brave heart.
Please get help, you may be sliding into a depression, the further you go down, the harder it will be for the therapist to pull you out of the quicksand. If you can find a therapist that understands narcissistic abuse, that would be great. But I suggest that you at least fined a therapist that works with “trauma”. I don’t know where you are living, but I am putting a link to a list of therapists that work in this area…… I hope there is one living in your area.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/narcissistic-victim-syndrome-hope-for-victims-and-survivors/mental-health-professionals-and-centers-specializing-in-narcissistic-abuse-and-n/721331344650772
Warmest regards. Christine
Your website came up as I was looking for information on Narcissists. Amazingly so, I feel surprised to realize that this is what defines the man that I spent 30 years with. He left carnage in his wake, in the form of me.He was abusive to me in every imaginable way. One day about 14 months ago he suddenly and unexpectedly left me. It was all as though it was in slow motion, it was agonizing. In those 14 months he has continued his need to extract more pain from me, and to extract more theft of my core being.. My internal landscape is decimated, stolen, vanished, gone. My presence on earth is my physical body and a kind heart. The woman I once was is gone and this new bereft form of nothingness walks in her place. The feelings of shame are intense, my feelings of worthlessness are intense. The legacy of him is that what is left of me is no longer enough for others to be able to see good in me; and worse to be able to endure trying to be a friend. My isolation of those 30 years continues, I self isolate in hopes of not being discovered to be this emptiness taking up space on the earth and exhausting the very few that know of my story. The road ahead of me seems incredibly long and impossible to put my feet onto. As an act of confession I admit to being seriously injured, and ashamed of it. At any rate, thank you for your website.
Hi Lynn,
It is the most natural thing in the world that you love your mother. If people suffering with NPD were all bad, then it would be easy to do “no contact”, but as you say, there are times when your mother is a person you love being with. I totally get it, because I always loved my psychopathic brother…… I made the distinction very young that although I absolutely adored him (Dr. Jackall side), there were times that I hated his behaviour (Mr. Hyde side).
Elizabeth Bowen said “Nobody can be kinder than the narcissist while you react to life in his/her own terms”. That is so true, if we could make them feel loved every moment of the day they would be as happy as Larry, and be a joy to be with. But that is not the reality of the situation, we have to deal with their constantly shifting moods and tantrums. Perhaps it will be useful for you to remember that the narcissist is psychologically constructed to garner attention, and hold the control. As a child you had no idea of what it was you were dealing with, and probably learned to survive by “pleasing” her. But now you understand what is wrong, and can accept that she is likely to be easily offended, that she can be opinionated, will find fault in you…. all of which makes you feel anxious. What is worse, this relationship with your mother as it is is affecting your relationship with your husband and girls…… it hurts them seeing you getting hurt.
It seems that if you are going to make this work at any level, then something has to change. If everything stays the same, then as you said, it will take a toll on your family. You know from experience that Mum is not going to change, so then, it seems that if you want this relationship with your mother, then it will be up to you to change something.
It would be really useful to do a little therapy on yourself, and learn how to handle your mother from here on. I am not suggesting for one moment that you do “no contact”, or that you become horrible to her, what I am thinking about is that you put down healthier boundaries. There is no use pondering on “if only”….. you are stuck with the mother you have, and you only get one of those in a lifetime. You may have to grieve for the mothering you did not get, but the truth is, your Mum did the best she could with her own woundedness. So stop hoping for change, it is futile. You need good supports around you, so tell your family how you are feeling, that you know that your Mother is a very difficult person, and that you understand it must hurt them to see you hurt at time from the treatment your mother dishes out to you…. but you still love her, and want to continue the relationship, even though it is lop sided. You realise that you have to make some changes as to how to handle her, and you will work on that….. but you need their support and love in the meantime.
Your Mum knows how to manipulate you, so you need to do something different regarding how to be around her. For example, you may have to distance yourself a little by putting boundaries in place. You will have to change your state of mind around her, for example, see her as the child she really is. Rather than get upset by her remarks, see them as so childish and amusing.
Limit contact to when it suits you, that means not visiting when you are unwell or vulnerable. Maintain the relationship at a level where you are comfortable, give her what you need to give her in order to avoid guilty feelings….. remember, this is about you more than it is about your mother. If she becomes impossible at any stage, then you may have to distance yourself completely, but you can still look out for her from a distance (making sure she is being cared for by other family members, or service providers). The problem is not really her, it is how you handle yourself while around her…… that means getting better boundaries. If you seem happier, then your immediate family will be happier too.
I would suggest, the next time you go to visit her……… just quietly sit and look around you. Try to see what is “missing” from her life. I remember I was having terrible trouble with a narcissistic woman (a relative), she was a real bitch to everybody, and very cruel in her remarks, dressing them up in “I am only telling you the truth”. She used this excuse of “truth” as a sword against everybody, cutting to the core of the person. I remember one day I happened to be in her house while she was not there. I went into each room, and just sat quietly looking around me (intuitively feeling). She was living on her own, but her home was very nice and comfortable, but something was missing. Before long I began to understand this enemy….. I could feel her loneliness, her desperation for attention, her envy for what I had (my loving family, my education, my simpleness,). I had struggled with her for many years, dreading her, yet not being able to totally do no contact (it would have hurt others if I had done that). I had detached from her, and closed my heart to her because I did not know what else to do when around her….I was trying to defend myself while in her company. This did not solve the problem, she sensed my moving away from her, and she experienced this as a rejection of her, which made her worse. Every time I was in her house I felt like I had entered into a war zone, and I never did manage to come out unscade. But sitting quietly in her home while she was not there had a profound effect on me. I felt my heart opening, I finally understood her, and my whole mind set was changed. After that I saw her as a very needy child in an adult’s body. I knew she would never change, and I had to accept that…. and not try to change her. Changing myself was the answer. I am now able to be around her, I smile at her little tantrums, but I do not get sucked into them. When the tantrum is over, I do something soft for her…… not because I am trying to please her or change her mood, but because I see a child who needs a hug….. I gave that hug by maybe making her a coffee, or sitting down to give her my company, and begin to talk with her. I do not give her bad behaviour any energy (she loves a good row), I ignore it by shrugging my shoulders and turning away from her. But when she stops being the bitch, I reward her with my company. This has changed our relationship. She is still a bitch, but she actually respects me these days……. my status has gone from being an inferior to a superior relative. We shall never be great friends, but I can tolerate her now. All that changed was “me”, I changed my way of being around her which has eased everything. Occassionaly she gets a reaction out of me, but that is more to do with me, and the space I am in at the time……. once I realize what is happening, I change my tactic and that disarms her. I think, by and large, we have a “win/win” solution to the very long problem. The beauty is, you can never change anybody, but you can change yourself and your reactions…… get better boundaries in place girl. Work with a therapists for a few sessions if you need to. Warmest regards. Christine
Hi, my problem is that my mother has NPD. But I love her so much and I care for her, I cant just abandon her or end my relationship with her. And there are times when she cares for me and be the best mom on the planet. It would have beeen a lot easier for me if I could hate her and think of her as a monster, instead I see her as a person with a disease and feel for her.
I know this attitude of mine is taking a toll on my life and my family life (with my husband and daughter). I’m so torn in-between. what do I do?
Just listened to the radio broadcast of the interview with Christine Louis de Canonville…enlightening, and as a survivor of this destructive dynamic, healing to say the least. The closest I’ve gotten over the years to an accurate description of my pattern of being attracted to men of this kind…and how devastating the lack of awareness of the effects of this syndrome can be when we live in a world hasty to make the survivor the identified patient…by family members, by support networks, law enforcement, and media…is to understand I am a survivor of domestic violence, caught in the ravages of what heretofore was diagnosed as my “sex and love addiction”. All are true…I’m a survivor of domestic violence, I’ve become horribly enmeshed and addicted to unhealthy, destructive relationships, and, thank God for research…I now know I’m surviving the effects of narcissistic abuse syndrome. I’m writing a memoir about my experiences as a survivor of domestic violence and as one who has worked in the field, providing insights and ideas thinking outside of the box for solutions, to both this syndrome and the pain that the perpetrators experience as well…through the perpetuation of these types of mind and heart games. There’s hope for all I believe, and to not think outside of the box and include the perpetrators in the solution dynamic is an approach of the same mind that created the problem to begin with I think. Real and/or perceived abandonment. Just one more note, the interviewer at the end sort of implies that a narcissist will neither seek nor maintain counseling and therapy….as if, this is almost a “sign” that differentiates the malignant narcissist from others. Not so. My experience is that some pathological narcissists engage in individual therapy, group therapy, with the intention of “healing” but it soon becomes another social crutch, another way to examine the landscape and pick up on helpful ways to “appear” to be growing emotionally, to learn the language of emotional wellness, but ultimately, becomes another way to gather more narcissistic supply, more ideas on how to act out sexually, how to cover their tracks and compartmentalize…how to be slicker in their presentation. Just a warning. Thanks, and love, hope, and healing for us all. xo
Hi Helen, Sorry, but I am not aware of any such cases…… but thet does not mean that there has not been. If anybody else can answer this question, we would love to hear from you. Christine
I did not grow up as a victim of narcissism (to my knowledge), but I have seen these signs and symptoms of NPD in my husband, and in his immediate family. They have gained up on me, blaming me for their own or anyone else in their family’s thoughts, feelings, moods, or behavior. My husband will make cunning remarks of me to them, then turn around and tell me “I was standing up for you.” I’m still here in this relationship. We have a two year old. I feel I’ve been getting a shorter and shorter fuse with tolerating his lies, hurtful words, and acts towards me… It doesn’t take much anymore for fight/flight to kick in with him, especially if our daughter is involved. Also, to make sure I’m not fooled by his saying one thing, then claiming another at his convenience later, I often sneak a recording of his moods- I also feel this will one day help me protect myself if needed legally. I was in counseling, then we moved. Now we’re broke, and I can’t afford me to go. I want to leave, but I love him and want to continue to provide another chance for him to change- my mind just keeps asking how? How will he ever be convinced? How do I leave if I do? How can I protect my daughter from him and his family?
It’s really tough because my brother and my father do not understand the dynamics of my husband’s narcisstic behaviors. I once had a no contact order against him and they constantly were in contact with him feeding him the draw he wanted. I thought he had changed, so I went back- he just hasn’t been physically abusive since, and now we have a child. I really do feel like my head is spinning and helpless. I don’t sleep well and am so tired its hard to get out of bed except that my daughter needs care- but I’m dragging my feet all day.
Hi Helen, This is a super question Helen. Unfortunately I do not know the answer to that, it is worth some research. If you (or any other reader) finds any articles on this question, I would appreciate if you could forward links so I can follow-up that line of enquiry. Warmest regards. Christine
Has there been any family law cases involving Gaslighting in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome? If so, what cases were they and what was the outcome?
I don’t know if I was clear, but the children came with me when we left home. They are both doing well, each in the medical field, strong but sensitive and kind. I sometimes worry that they could be actually doing this well considering what we all went through. Someday I hope for their health, they will seek even more counsel in perhaps dealing with what went on in their lives. One critical thing-my son is considering moving back with his dad to help pay off his loans, and help his dad with major health issues. He knows his dad is sick, but he still loves him.He also thinks he’s strong enough to handle it. This has me concerned; even if my son has the wherewithall to deal with keeping his dad at bay, I’m thinking this in and of itself may produce a callousness in my son. Or that it might produce a narcissist tendency in him, in having to control his father. I am trying not to say too much, he is an adult, but I did mention his dad’s mental status, and my son’s need for healthy living and the start of a new life. For as long as the children’s dad is living, the problem still goes on. But again, thank you for the tools…and the verification of so many real things./Elizabeth.
Dear Christine,
I greatly appreciate your desire to educate those desperately in need of healing.I am one of them. I was once trapped in a marriage, (of 23 years), caught up initially in the ‘specialness’ of my spouses world, finally becoming ensnared by his keen crazymaking and powerful control-to the point he had me connected at the hip-with reasons for all of it-and no seeming way out. He never exhibited anger though, but was an expert at conversation and could rearrange, back up, slow down, move forward anything and almost anybody for his intent. A chess enthusiast, he secretly despised anyone who would not buy into his workings or get in his way-even those he supposedly loved. He subtly covered his tracks-so the confusion element was extremely high-til toward the end, there was nothing left of ‘me’ and my ability to make decisions; I thought I’d very soon lose my mind. (But God was the strength of my life and when there was no way out He helped me get out-go against “pharoah” as it were, walk away from what seemed like ‘Egypt.’) While still back home though, as the children grew older with thoughts of their own, I saw my husband psychologically try to reshape their thinking to conform to his ideas- to the point he’d make them cry. He would never give up. He’d sit them down as though they were having normal conversation, then he wouldn’t let them up until they were turned inside out. They would say through tears, ‘just TELL US what you want us to say, so we can get up from our seats.’ They were willing to be brainwashed, in order to escape the torture. It was mental abuse, but we all felt it as though it were physical pain.
The more I tried to absorb the trauma for the kids, or try to maintain my own person in a respectful loving way, the stronger his attempts at controlling my mind.At the end he even wanted me to slow down to match his step; he’d say I was so selfish and mean if I tried to kindly ignore him. I’d have to focus on weeds or flowers to escape the mind control, or on a dish I was washing if he’d come up behind me, or something close at hand,-that’s how strong his power grew to be over me. The more I tried to maintain myself, the sicker and more dark he became. Today his house, his business, all reflect the depth of his mental illness, because he lost all the people who supplied him his needed control. He has pretty much lost control of everything, all that he worked for..his home..is trashed, even though he won’t relinquish his right over them. And he was a brilliant talented man. Humble, in his way-just badly injured by a narcissist father. And a mother who raised him to be king. Very sad.
Until today though, when a friend told me of your article, I had no idea why I was still experiencing trouble with living life, ten years having left home. I never heard the term “Narcissist Victim Syndrome…” though all my symptoms match it to the’ t.’ I just thought the panic attacks, the not being able to make decisions, the failure to launch out in life, the inferior, worthless feelings, the comfort eating were somehow related to an ongoing blood disorder I developed days before we left home. I thought being super reactive to stress was because I was a single mom dealing with so many situations. Wow, have you given me the tools to go back to the counseling route for help, with a new hopefulness. Thank you!
If anyone reading this still feels helpless and alone in an impossibly unhealthy relationship…know that there is help in God. In our weakness-He is strong. Stronger also than any Narcissist’s snare-that’s a promise-power in His Name.
Thank you Christine-what a relief to see a light toward this next path of my journey. God Bless!
Sincerely, Elizabeth
It took me a while to realize what was happening to me (and my family). One common thread I have seen is how much being a victim of someone with NPD confuses people. It really does leave you constantly second guessing yourself. Ironically, the psychopath we are dealing with is a therapist by trade. I mention that specifically because I believe her education in the field has only made her more dangerous. She is an absolute master at disguising her actions. She sets traps all over the place and with a well thought out plan to make her victims look like the crazy ones. It’s sheer evil genius and is incredibly effective torture.
Let me clarify something…
This person is both the wife of my business partner and the mother of my daughter’s boyfriend. Hence, the option of simply running as far away from her as possible, isn’t an option. We are forced to deal with her on more than one level. Aside from the routine exposure, she also insists on more contact than we are comfortable with. We get cornered into gatherings (under the auspice of family, mutual friends or forced business outings) all the time. The obvious discomfort on our end is then used as a “see, look how the are” platform. Like many others here can testify to, the narcissist is often very good at making their victim look like the one with the issues. The fact that she is both highly skilled and highly educated in the field makes her even more effective at this tactic.
As I said, this person is the mother of my teenage daughter’s boyfriend. I could go on for hours about how she quickly weaved her way into being “closer than her real mom” to my daughter. That opened the door for her to gain insight to intimate details about my daughters thoughts, fears, hopes, dreams, etc. – which later proved to be valuable information used to cause harm.
Facebook was one of the small, but effective tools she used. I say that in the past tense, because after much turmoil we chose to un-friend her. This act, in itself caused an avalanche of more grief – which we are still dealing with now.
One of the things she did with Facebook is the passive / aggressive posts that are clearly directed at you – but that can’t be proven.
Maybe others have experienced this. Let’s say you have a disagreement that ends in both parties going their own direction for the evening. A few hours later you see a post on Facebook quote / meme that says “You want to come in my life, the door is open. You want to get out of my life, the door is open. Just one request. Don’t stand in the door, you’re blocking the traffic.”
Now, is it possible that it isn’t directed at you? Sure, but it’s very unlikely, considering the timing, circumstances, etc.
If, however, this kind of thing happened over and over – there might be something to it. This particular example isn’t near as attacking as it could be – but the concept is the same.
If you did make the mistake of saying “It really bothers me when you post things like that on Facebook” you would get something like this: “What? Seriously??? Not everything is about you… I post those things all the time and I don’t have to defend that to you. In fact, I’m insulted you would suggest such a thing. Geez…” — Or something along those lines.
Again, this is not something that by itself would cause tremendous harm to anyone, but it’s an example of how you can be twisted up and question your own judgement.
Well, that’s enough for now. I just wanted to comment on some personal experience.
Thank you for the very well written and informative article as well as the continued responses to messages left here.
Sincerely,
Fred
Hi Christine,
Thank you very much for your post. I have been researching NPD, mental and emotional abuse for quite a while now. I have only been able to vaguely connect the events happening around me to the research that I do online. Only subconsciously have I known that I had been dealing with a NPD father and have been looking for ways to make it more difficult for him to get to me.
But your post has been a true eye-opener. Because you have been able to accurately point to and connect various things at various levels, I can now almost pin-point the events as they have happened and as they truly stand. I had already decided to leave, but always felt like I was about to run away from reality, felt in doubt and was afraid that it would come to nag me in the future. I am now at peace.
I wish more research like yours gets done on this subject to quantify and qualify them and awareness spread about it to spare a lot of people from depression and ruined lives.
I thank you again for your wonderful work.
Regards,
Sandeep
Hi Marni,
I am so sorry to hear of your predicament. Your story is so common, people do not seem, or want to understand that the psychopath wears a mask, and presents themselves to the world with a face of normalcy……. this is all part of their web of deception. I do understand, fully, and that is why I am doing my best to expose these individuals by sharing information. It is a hard job, but it seems as if people are getting more and more educated. Take yourself for instance, now your eyes are open, you are better able for spotting them now than you were before. The only way of staying safe is spotting these predators before you become “hooked”. My thoughts are with you. Warmest regards. Christine
Hi Marni,
I am so sorry to hear of your predicament. Your story is so common, people do not seem, or want to understand that the psychopath wears a mask, and presents themselves to the world with a face of normalcy……. this is all part of their web of deception. I do understand, fully, and that is why I am doing my best to expose these individuals by sharing information. It is a hard job, but it seems as if people are getting more and more educated. Take yourself for instance, now your eyes are open, you are better able for spotting them now than you were before. The only way of staying safe is spotting these predators before you become “hooked”. My thoughts are with you. Warmest regards.Christine
omg……try to just walk away. I did. It doesn’t work, and you will be the one that everyone says is not well. I lost everything including my kids and still being dragged to court. If I try and defend myself, again I am the one not well. I can’t co-parent, I can’t maintain relationships……
At least I know I attract them like flies – which is why I have refrained from seeking out a new relationship. Until I can stop attracting that personality type, hell if I want anyone I can’t shut the door on.
The court ordered psychologist said I had PTSD – but said I am a danger to everyone around me. Because I avoid him???? He drives by my house all the time. He follows me. He finds me at school events and confronts me. I walk away, I refuse to speak to him, I call the police when he just “shows up” in the driveway – I am dangerous????
He is concerned because I am not well……..I say the socio path wins. They present themselves so well in court.
HI Bobby,
Thank you for your kind words. Did you know, on average, it takes about 7 attempts to leave the narcissist before it actually happens….. so this is quite normal.
First I had to discover that I had been dealing with narcissists (and even a psychopath brother from childhood). Then I did my research so that I could understand the behaviours better. When I had that done I still felt something was missing…… that was when I asked the great question of myself, “what part am I playing in attracting narcissists to me?” I knew I was going to write on the subject, and I felt it would not be a complete study if I did not understand the victim’s behaviours as well…… a more balanced approach, afterall, narcissists and victims go together like a horse and carriage…… partners in the convoluted dance. It was a great journey of discovery, of course I had to work through my pain……. but I also worked with awe and wonder with my own wonderful defense mechanisms………. they became great teachers for me.
Nobody is safe from narcissistic abuse……. I was also a therapist at the time of my last narcissistic abuse, so I was no wiser than you. That particular narcissistic offender was another female therapist, (who was finally struck off from her Accreditation Board in Ireland for her unethical and pathological behaviours with her clients and students on her psychotherapy course)……. as an empath, I was every narcissists dream . Howsever, this was my fourth time for being a victim in my life…… I was the common denominator, and I did not want to go through this ever again. Of course narcissists still are still attracted to me, actually, I was targeted again in the last year by another narcissist, but I saw right through it this time, so did not end up being “hooked”. Once your eyes are fully opened, and you work on your own weaknesses (i.e. lack of boundaries, passivity, defense mechanisms, etc) you are unlikely to become another target and fall for the seduction, lying, manipulation, etc.).
My first book, The Three Faces of Evil is all about the different levels of narcissistic abuse, but my next next book will be about the victim, and their behaviours and the effects of narcissistic abuse on them. You can download a FREE chapter of my book if you follow the link: https://narcissisticbehavior.net/book/
Well done to you and your sacred work also. Don’t be to hard on yourself, but you may need to work on yourself if you are going to stay with your partner, find your weaknesses and bring about change in yourself. Don’t bother trying to change him, you cannot achieve that. Warmest regards.
This is fabulous, this work. I want to know though, as I am devastated right now after having gone back to him for another “movie script material” discard, what you did when you realized the common denominator was “me” in your awakening. This is where your work can truly help the npv from wasting years in recovery. Already on year 15 here at 62.
Not a novice to psychology, I created an individual credential in a new psychology field and worked with inpatients at various hospitals. Didn’t stop me from falling victim though, and I have all the trauma points you mentioned right now. And, fully aware, I knew he was a narcissist when I went back for the final, horrible devaluation and discard. Just completely robotic of me.
Congratulations on your fantastic accomplishment, seriously it’s amazing.
My mother is a narcissist, and I survived. I am scarred but alive, and I do not consider myself a victim anymore. I am 57 years old ,so most of the therapist had no clue as to what to do, but we kept at it. The co-dependent of the hyper-critical, judgemental, non-loving enviroment kind was the way we started. I was always told not to express my feelings, so I learned to paint, and I listen to music. I took Martial Arts and learned to stand up for myself. I have a Polish heritage so I repeat over and over Not my Circus, Not my Monkeys when Mother goes off on her wild ones. I realize this is a mental illness and it is not my fault. Forgiving her for it was the hardest part, but that holding in the anger only hurts me not her.
2 1/2 years ago, I stumbled on the term narcissist while listening to my favorite Christian radio station. I looked the word up and was BLOWN AWAY to find it described my “husband” to the tee (although I can’t use the term husband because we were never married! He, unfortunately used religion to say we were married and manipulated me saying, “We don’t need aring to tell us we wetare married” and “Is a piece of paper going to tell us we’re married?” We went through h e double hockey sticks for 24 1/2 YEARS…and that was BEFORE I found this alarming, dangerous news! And, of course, I did exactly what the website I found the info on, told new NOT to do! I tried first, to reason with him, then i tried calling him on his lies and it all resulted in avoiding him and showing no emotion to him, until finally, I secretly found a job and left in the middle of the night with 3 of our 4 children! My oldest is moving in soon since basketball season has ended! He has to drive 25 minutes to and from school to finish out hisSenior yr, but we are walking distance from Sac State and he already has his papers to start there in the fall! I have recognized how their father had destroyed me in so many ways! I feel like my insides are coming out at his very sight or to get atext from him! And that’s just atip of the ice Beth! However, my largest concern is my 12 y.o. He has always put him last in everything and never lived up to any of the empty promises he constantly makes. Isaac suffers from severe insecurities and had anger management issues. I try my best to discipline by sending him to his room to think about his behavior, rather than elevating it! I want to put him in Martial Arts for self control, but I only make $10/hr right now and can’t even afford counseling. And seeing as though his dad would just make up some pity story, I am really having to strategize my every move to be able to make ends meet! If you know any low-cost counselors that can help my son…although all of them have been torn apart by their narcissist father…I would be so grateful to have help! Thank you. Good bless you! I would love to be a spokesperson for narcissistic victim syndrome! Good brings beauty from pain…I would love to help others recognize ways to overcome! Thanks for posting this!
This made so much sense to me,
My mother most definitely has NPD, she has been diagnosed with bi-polar, reactive behavioural disorder & borderline skitzophrenia. From the moment I read anything about NPD I knew it was that. Knowing this in the back of my mind has helped me deal with it & with her. Although I have been aware of what has been happening, somehow I cannot stop it from affecting me. I have been in foster care at a young age and my grandparents had to fight my mum through court to get custody of me. We never had “the bond” & all my life she’s got drunk and said go back to “them” (grandparents) where you belong. I lived with her between 10-15 years old, she had been through a divorce (or was in the process) and she had no where to live… All of a sudden after ten years she decided she wanted me to live with her, my grandparents didn’t want me to as she was now sleeping on a friends sofa, and it wasn’t convenient. My mum decided to just take me off the street one day whilst I was playing out with my friends, didn’t even tell my grandparents. When they called the police, they were sat out side my mums friends house where I now lived, and the police arrived, I just remember the blue lights. She rang my lovely grandma & Said “if you don’t get rid of the police I will tell them dad has molested her!” So with in 10 minutes I watched the police pull away & then my grandparents both distraught. She wouldn’t let me out to see them. She then isolated me away from all my family for a year and a half. I was so alone. She got a council property within six months of having me at her friends, and the saddest thing is I know that’s the only reason she took me that day. All my life without her, she was all I wanted. Now I find my self here dreams come true & it wasn’t all it cracked up to be. She would drink every single night & get violent… & it was all my fault. If Id ask her why she did it to me Id be “being dramatic” or she’d say “I’d never do that to you, you lying little bitch!” She used to bribe me and blackmail me. She once had me by the throat that hard I could feel my self losing consciousness. So with all my might i darted forwards & she fell onto a photo frame on the wall… She threatened to ring the police on me or to tell my grandma what I had done to her. She left me at 15 with a bag of clothes (not many may I add) on my grandmas door step.. She said go on that’s what you’ve wanted for a long time go be with her, you all make me the black sheep of the family. So I went (after an argument) thinking Id go back soon, and one day I went to our flat (only about a month later) and no one was in… She said I’ve moved to Wales with Mel (her then boyfriend) she still owned the flat, but she had given it up it had to be emptied in the next month. She took all my worldly belongings. I had to start from scratch. I couldn’t live with my grandparents as now my grandad was ill, so for a while I sofa surfed. No real base, I sat my GCSE’s in non uniform as I didn’t own one it was all in Wales. She even text me before my exams being horrible. Probably just to put me off because she’s have loved me to fail! I went I to a hostel at 17, it was awful but by now I was in college… I just kept my head down… There were heroin addicts and drunks on the same floor, it was very scary. I finally got housed at 18, I now live in the same flat, I am a barber & I’ve done pretty well. I have recently cut my mother off completely & I am the best I have felt in years. To be honest the best thing she ever did was move to Wales, although the sense of abandonment is overwhelming… I’ve only seen her around 5 times in six years. I still now feel PTS I have panic attacks frequently & have night terrors, but I know why and I manage it. I really feel for anyone who goes through this. You have no feeling of self worth & you’re judgement is much distorted, the divide between head and heart is severe & you do not believe in you’re gut! My best advice would be a step back away from the person making you feel like this, until you are strong enough to find YOU & to know YOUR mind!! Don’t make or allow yourself to think things because you are manipulated into doing so!
Thanks again for the article
So basically they need a partner to dance with.. and ive been unconsciously dancing the same dance over and over again with them, so I need to recognize the rhythm of the dance to get out of the unconsciousness of the dance???? So because we keep the dance going thats what fuels a narcissistic person.
After 20 years my marriage to a woman with NPD has ended. I had tried to keep the marriage alive because I found out many years ago that her childhood was a fairly traumatic one that included being abused sexually by a family member and I did not want to be the source of any further hurt. This was despite all the arguments etc.that were always my fault. I have now come to terms with the fact that she has suffered with this all her life. I have, when having thought of leaving in the past, always tried to see the good qualities and managed to stay in the marriage. I always thought that it was just a bad temper and desire to get her own way and that when she realised that the marriage may end she would behave differently towards me. I always have been a calm person and let lots go but the last few years the behaviour pattern has become worse and s started to get me down and I started to yell back and engage it the fighting.But having read and educated myself about NPD I realise that I was only an object to give her supply. Coming to the realisation that she probably never loved me is proving very difficult for me but I can now see that these people are mentally ill. She also is an expert in showing people outsid that she is quite normal and married to an abusive husband. She has done this by causing an argument and the taping the resultant argument then playing the parts that suit to her friends. There is a core of people we both know that can see that she is difficult to live with given the manipulation and times that the facade has fallen away, can see there is something wrong with the behaviou Over the years her family have been asked by me for help to get a psychiatrist and see if we can try to curb this behaviour but they have done nothing as, while they all talk behind her back about her behaviour, they have all been a party to hiding the fact she was sexually abused by a family member as a child and it was swept under the carpet. The behaviour had become more extreme in latter years and the manipulation, lying, disappearing for days on end and the other ways NPD’s bring you down becoming difficult to cope with although I never gave up hope that things would change. In the end she left as I was no longer playing he game. I actually for a week or so tried to get her back. That probably shows that I needed her for my reality and worse affected than I thought. Anyway I am now reading as much as I can about NPD to understand why this all happened and convince myself I am not crazy. All I can say is that if anyone sees enough traits in their partner to suspect they are NPD then just get out, read and educate yourself as their powers of manipulation,dishonesty and deception have no boundaries. They are experts at convincing you they love you when it suits them and then getting what they want and the drama starts again. One thing is for sure, they will never change,
Well it sounds as if you are putting two fingers up to the pair of them John…… I would love to be a fly on the wall in their place. Two peacocks trying to out strut each other, that would be amusing to watch. Invited to testify at his divorce…… she will love that, they thrive in drama. Can’t you just imagine to two of them getting ready to seduce and manipulate the courts with their pathological lying, wow!!
My “Future ex-wife” . She is still living with the still-married guy she was cheating on me with (one of several!). She is being “invited” to testify at their divorce hearing next week. According to that guys wife, he is NPD as well. So I don’t know, or care, how long they will be able to stand each other.
Hi John, Of course, I remember our last chat together. I am glad to hear that you are still learning, but not so glad that I was right….. that means only one thing, that people were hurt. Well the situation is very serious, with all her children abandoning her. The minute they told her that something was wrong with her, in effect that was the moment she would have perceived that they were rejecting and abandoning her. It does not matter that their intention was to seek help for her. To this type of narcissist, you are either with them or against them….. they were acting against her as far as she was concerned. Losing her source of narcissistic supply (daughters and grandchildren) is likely to send her into a rage and unhinge her for a while…. so you need to be very careful through this patch. In some ways you may find her being nicer to you, it is not unusual for them to turn back to their spouse when things get hard for them (and NO CONTACT is hard on them), and other means of supply is taken away from them. Perhaps you will find this even a pleasant time for you….. but be warned, it is not likely to last. When she gets her equilibrium back, she will be up to her old tricks again, because they cannot stomach boredom. Bye the way, what she did to the grandchildren is actually “abuse”……… even young children know when someone is expending emotional energy in a relationship when they should not be, unconsciously they would have felt her disloyalty to you. The subtle changes in her adulterous behavior did unsettle the child, that is why she spoke of it when she could. So often the impact on children is overlooked, so I am so pleased that the child got the space to talk out, tell the truth, and not carry the secret any longer…… it is often the secret that is the most damaging. Smaller children can worry inwardly that the family will break up (Grandad and Grandma won’t be there any more). Whereas, older children may feel anger and betrayal, this can sometimes be expressed in their acting out. The worst part of this is that she instructed the children to keep the affair a secret….. that is too much of a burden to put on any child. But now that everything is exposed, the trauma for the children can be eased if the can see the adults (you and their parents) are sufficiently in control of their own emotions, and can explain to the child that “these things should not happen, but do happen and can be survived”. The children may feel a need to talk about it again, I would suggest that the adults only answer the question the child asks…… sometimes they really do not want to hear everything, because they have their own relationship going on with Grandma which they may want to keep in tack. Hope you can move beyond the pain of this mess your wife is making.
Christine, we last emailed 23 October. Since then I have learned a lot. You were spot-on. While I was in love with her, she was at war with me. Recently her four adult daughters have read up on NPD, and agreed she is an extreme narcissist. They confronted her, and told her she has a serious problem and needs professional help. In return for their show of caring and love for their mother, she has called them all liars, and chosen the new target over them and her nine grandchildren. The daughters have cut her off from contact with them and the grandchildren due to her behavior – an example, the 12 yo granddaughter recently confessed to her mom that while living with me, my “wife” would leave our house, telling me she was going to have lunch with her sister, and take the grandchildren, ages 12, 8, and 3, to meet him. She told them not to tell me or their mother what she was doing. How messed up is that? Teaching your own grandchildren to lie to their mother and cheat and your husband.
hi. im holding out hope that i will be a narcissist survivor. i am struggling with soo many emotions right now, getting to know me and trust me. every day i get stronger but the pain and confusion is raw. how can this be? how can he be so nonchalant? how can he be so arrogant, cocky while i cry ?? how can i accept this behavior for so long. will i know love when i see it? will i trust again? will i know how to behave properly as a single adult, or will my starvation for attention get the best of me. i pray i get all these answers.
~serenity
Thank you so much for this article. You may be surprised to hear that i am a mental health lawyer but it has taken me 4 years to realise my ex is a narc. It has only been a week since he dumped me again for the 100th time, while he is feeding on his new supply. I am still at the point where i want him back but i am having my first therapy session tomorrow (im not sure my therapist will have heard about this syndrome and i feel almost ashamed to admit i have serious issues).
My ex is a highly educated surgeon who keeps dragging me back in. He is punishing me with his silence at the moment and i am obsessing that he is cheating on me. Im having serious withdrawal symptoms and i hate feeling like this but i hope deep down, i am on the first step to recovery.
Thank you for this article – it made me cry.
I just escaped a 33 year marriage to a narcissist. I had one year of therapy during that time because he convince me I was crazy. I couldn’t even talk to the therapist because I couldn’t describe what was happening- I didn’t know! I had my first appointment with a therapist last week and I’ll take this article to him when I go back. This article could have been written about me, personally, word for word.
I have a great deal of trouble realizing I spent that much time, my entire adult life, with someone who felt not one single emotion for me or my children. I suffer from panic attacks and anxiety daily. I have blank spaces in my memory. I’m finding it more difficult to deal with my emotions as they start to return. My heart hurts. It was not only my husband who abused me, but his group of friends who have worked very hard to destroy my life since I escaped.
I refuse to let one more day of my life be controlled by this man, and he will not have any effect on my new life. I am committed to therapy for as long as it takes. I want this nightmare to be over.
Thank you for this article. I am not crazy. Thank you.
Thank you for this. After seven years with a monster, I’m finally awake – but not free. I sincerely believed to be the one to blame for trying suicide, breaking down, cutting all of my body, developing anorexia and bulimia, extreme anxiety, depression, panic attacks, cutting all of my friendships, pursuing the career he wanted me to (so I could provide him with limitless money) etc. etc.
Now all I have left is a huge debt and emotional, spiritual, mental exhaustion. He blames me for leaving him, for he’s so “mentally handicapped”. I know nothing for sure, I look for validation all the time. Can’t act on my own, even after he’s finally left, less than one week ago. And were I to tell people what has happened to me, they’d just confirm I’m mad.
I’m probably going to apologize to him many times over, the trauma is severe. He’d even sleep with other people on our bed to have sex… Disgusting.
Never satisfied, always blaming and demanding, telling how much he loved me, how special his love was, and how stupidly feeble and insane I was.
I want to bring awareness to this horrible disorder in my country, where people still barely know what therapy is for. Maybe translate some books or create a forum. At least victims need to stop blaming themselves. Keep up the good work, you’re an angel to many.
Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it. I’m in good old England.
It is helping to find out exactly what happened through websites like yours. It’s surprising because it sneaks up on you so you don’t always realise until it’s too late that it’s happening, especially when they do the gaslighting. You just start to think that maybe you got it wrong, or you didn’t remember the incident properly. That’s why it can happen to anyone, men, women who think they are strong, it is such a sneaky and as you say insidious type of abuse.
On behalf of all of use who have been abused and for those in the future I applaud the work you are doing. I will find out the contact details for the Accreditation Board and ring them.
Thank you for your link and please let me know when your book comes out. I will definitely be in line buying it. Kind regards, Mary
Hi Mary,
I am sorry you have been treated so badly. Anybody who tell you to “move on, get over it” have no idea of what they are talking about, or what you have been dealing with. If they knew what narcissistic abuse was they would know better than to do that. Anyone who says that to you, then to my mind their advice is worthless, and certainly not worth getting upset about. Any therapist who treats you that way are totally ignorant, and unfortunately most therapist do not get any training in this area, so as yet, the awareness is not there. This is what I am trying to address now, but it is a slow process….. but I am beginning to get places now.
The main thing is that you are now finding out what has happened in your relationship……. that is a great starting place, information is key to recovery. You can now educate yourself, and realize that you were traumatized by your experience. It may not be a bad idea to write a letter to your therapist telling her/him what you discovered, and that it would have been helpful if you could have reached this knowledge while attending therapy with them.
In Ireland I have spoken with the two major Psychotherapy Accreditation Boards, outlining this gap in therapists training. They are really interested in getting this gap in therapists training addressed. Narcissism is not a new subject, but talking about the victims of narcissitic abuse is, and especially Narcissistic Victim Syndrome is totally new.
I would love if people who have experienced narcissistic abuse would ring their Accrediation Boards in their area, asking if they could recommend a therapist trained in NARCISSISTIC ABUSE. In that way the people who have experienced this form of abuse would be doing a great deal to bring this to the attention of people who matter……. it is the Boards that set out the criteria for Psychotherapy Training Courses to follow, so they are powerful people to have on board now.
I don’t know what country you are in, but I did a radio show in America just before Christmas especially for Health Professionals. You can listen to it on my Website narcissisticbehavior.net
Or here is a link to the Radio Station …….. scroll down the page, and you will see a “BlogTalk Button”, just hit on it
http://everythingehr.com/the-3-faces-of-evil-unmasking-the-full-spectrum-of-narcissistic-abuse/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-3-faces-of-evil-unmasking-the-full-spectrum-of-narcissistic-abuse
You take care. Christine
Hi Michelle,
Unfortunately Narcissism can be found among helping professionals. As a professional psychotherapist myself I find this appalling, but unfortunately I know, from personal experience, that the helping profession does harbor such personality types.
It is known that individuals who have not addressed their own core wounds are especially attracted to the helping professions. For that reason trainee therapists are required to participate in high quality therapy themselves in order to become accredited with the Governing Bodies. Once qualified, they must also agree to continue the process of psychological self examination (CPD), and attend supervision if they are to remain an annual member of that Boards. So, one can be forgiven for thinking that the qualified psychotherapist would have worked through their own core psychological issues before working with other individuals.
Of course, “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink”, and it is the same with the trainee therapist who is a narcissist. The training may well require the trainee to attend their own therapy sessions, but what takes place in the therapy room is a confidential exchange between the narcissistic client and their therapist. The narcissist, because of their lack of trust, sets their own agenda, and this is likely to be on a “You Don’t Need To Know” basis, where they withhold information from their therapist about their own core wounds of abandonment and rejection. I have known instances in which therapists were accredited after receiving minimal psychotherapy, but the majority of therapists are willing to do the deep inner work that is necessary to become an excellent therapist.
If you know what to look for, it helps. For example, they have a tendency to talk a lot about themselves (Me, me, me…my qualification, my success etc), and of course you are paying for this privilege. More often than not they run their own private practice, often a Centre where they are the superior King or Queen You will soon find out that they are fixated on power and money; you can gleam this by the way they cannot resist speaking about their personal lives in an egotistical way. Their pursuit of monetary gain is so great that it often leads them to keep their clients engaged in the therapeutic process longer than necessary. This is achieved by creating vulnerable clients to become psychologically and emotionally dependence on them. They can justify all of their behaviours to themselves because they have no conscience or empathy to contend with. They are experts at pretending to care about their clients, and their suffering, but it is not real. Their need for admiration is so great, that if their client should dare to disagree with any point they make, they are bound to be punished (verbally, or by emotionally withdrawing from them), they have a real need to be comfortably superior.
Narcissistic therapists are so grandiose that they set themselves up as Gurus, actually they are really good at creating a cult-like following from the people they work with (clients, students, participants on their courses). They like to run workshops and courses that offer specialized knowledge for “Transformation” (which, of course, also draws in a lot of money for them). The message they are sending out is, “you too can become like me if you do as I say”.
There is another response to your question from Michelle Mallon, who unfortunately experienced a narcissistic therapist herself, with terrible consequences for her.
Hi Michelle,
In answer to your question “How would you know if a therapist was a narcissist”, here is an answer by someone who was found out the hard way…… her name is also Michelle, she asked me to post this in response to your question.
From Michelle Mallon to Michelle
It can be difficult to ever know for sure if a therapist is a Narcissist, since the opportunity to have them go through a full psychiatric evaluation and then reveal the results to you will probably never occur. But the simple fact that you are concerned about this tells me that somewhere in your gut, you are feeling like something isn’t right in your therapy. And as a survivor of therapist abuse, I want you to know that this is a really important clue that something is wrong. Unfortunately, Malignant Narcissists are drawn to professions where trust is an important element to the work they do. In addition, the counseling field is a prime location for Narcissists because they have easy access to countless vulnerable people from which to choose for their supply. I have connected with many victims of Narcissistic therapists around the world since my own terrifying experience with a therapist and so many of their stories sound the same. In many of the cases, abusive therapists take considerable time to groom their victims by working very hard to earn the victim’s trust before beginning the terrifying abuse. For me, this was a therapist I had taken my two small children to see for counseling. The psychologist told me that it would help my children if I saw him too. Wanting to do whatever I could to help my children, I immediately agreed. Shortly after, he said he didn’t need to see the kids anymore but continued to see me. And he seemed very competent for a little over a year. I thought I had found the best psychologist a person could find! And then things began to get disturbing. And it was because he had seemed so competent for so long that I ignored alarm bells that were going off in my head about some of the things he was saying. When I first took my kids to see this therapist, I was an independent, capable woman holding down 2 completely different professional careers and a family and volunteering all of my free time to my children’s’ school and our church. When I finally refused to see this man any longer, I was completely dependent on him for nearly every decision I was making in my life. I was afraid to go anywhere, confined to my room for a very long time. I had no idea what the heck had happened or who I even was anymore. Abusive therapists can be incredibly insidious in the damage they cause simply because of the power they hold in the therapeutic relationship.
There are a couple of places that I would urge you to take a look at to learn more about abusive therapists:
http://wisdomovertime.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/narcissistic-psychotherapists-identify-them-and-keep-your-distance-by-linda-martinez-lewi/
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201311/the-narcissistic-therapist
http://therapyabuse.org/index.htm
http://www.survivingtherapistabuse.com/
I hope this has been helpful, Michelle.
Respectfully,
Michelle Mallon, MSW, LSW
Narcissistic Psychotherapists-Identify Them and Keep Your Distance by Linda Martinez-Lewi
wisdomovertime.wordpress.com
Hi
I have just found your site after a couple of years of searching the internet for information. I identify with Selkie (26 April 2014) and what she went through. My childhood was bad, not just for me but for my siblings also. It wasn’t until I got married and noticed how my now ex’s brother and sister in law were and noticed the dynamics of their relationship that I realised it was the same as my parents relationship. I then started noticing the rest of my ex’s family and how they appeared to have no feelings or empathy for anyone else.
When my marriage broke down due to my ex cheating, he begged me to stay, wrote me letters, put together a cd of love songs, all to win me back. I thought he was truly sorry and repentant. But he wasn’t, he wanted to win me back so that he could plan and start hiding money, assets. He told me I no longer adored him the way I’d used to do. He refused point blank to go to therapy with me, but insisted I go as that way the therapist could tell me it was my fault for being too jealous.
I got the gaslighting, the verbal, emotional and psychological and occasionally the physical abuse. He started cheating again, telling me I had to put up with it. I got told I was too jealous, too sensitive, I was mental, he’d never said that! He got me to the stage where I was planning my suicide. I would lie awake at night thinking of ways to do it. I spent hours working out at what speed I would need to be driving my car to get it to go through the barriers on the bypass as it crossed over his company car park. But then this little voice crept in and kept telling me ‘no, he’s not worth your life’. I call that voice my angel because it saved me.
Luckily we had no children, and a few years ago just after New Year we were having an argument about his mistress. He screamed at me ‘I’ve told you before we’re not talking about this again or we’re through! Finished!’ I walked to the door, turned round and said ‘You’re right, we’re not talking about this anymore, we’re done’. That night I heard him, crying, but I couldn’t feel sympathy or anything. I was at that point in time dead inside, so you see he did manage to get me to commit suicide, just one in which the physical me lived.
I’m so sick and tired of being told ‘get over it’, ‘You should be over it by now’, ‘Just move on!’. I tried to get counselling but all she wanted to do was stick me on tablets and give me ‘assertiveness’ books. Even when you tell your counsellor of the abuse by narcissistic parents and spouse, they don’t want to know. They think ‘you’re out of the relationship now so move on’.
To find a site like this that actually acknowledges the damage done to the victims gives me hope.
How do you know if a therapist is a narcissist?
I was left by a Narc and realized only later from doing discovery that he had been lying and putting on a facede for the whole 16 years together. It’s been awful and a nightmare that I’m still not waking up from.
If anyone of you was/is with a Narcissist who seemed very giving and loving and has you completely confused whether he/she may be an narcissist or not. Please read this article. It fits my ex to a T and I know a lot of other unconventional narcissists. It really opened my eyes to how skillfully I was being manipulated and abused.
http://blog.melanietoniaevans.com/is-the-narcissist-capable-of-loving/#comment-560022
I was married to a narcissist for 22 years and suffered from panic attacks. After I divorced him and moved away my panic attacks stopped. My counselor who I was seeing before the divorce gave me a book on narcissist which I had never heard of before. It threw me into a tail spin, thinking I’d been living a lie all those years, that he truly had no empathy or compassion. When I asked him if he loved his mistress, he confessed he didn’t know if he knew what love was. When my son had to have surgery, and I was at his bedside he also said he was amazed at the compassion I showed, he was unable to comprehend even a parents love. I’ve been in a couple of relationships with narcissists, there’s got to be a pony under all this shit, but I’m not as tolerant of it for very long. From what I’ve read narcissists don’t think there’s anything wrong with them, so it’s very rare they seek help. I can’t thank you enough for validating the feelings and side affects of living with and being in a relationship with a narcissist. I feel I’ve been given new tools and awareness to work with in my recovery.
I have the same problem as Helene. I just wanted to say you are not alone. I will be praying that you find peace and that the people around you see him for who he is. Surround yourself with good people that will support you. God Bless
Wow!!! This was my life for 11 years. I became withdrawn, scared, intimidated, nervous, never felt good enough, never felt anything I did was right. I literally lived inside myself. I couldn’t tell ANYONE what was happening. It’s embarrassing. I have been divorced for 2 months and I’m still in denial. I can’t believe that was my life and I allowed the abuse to happen. I am in therapy, but I swear everyday is a struggle to get thru. This couldn’t have happen to me. I thought I was a strong independent women who could take on anything. Boy was I wrong. It took every bit of strength to leave my marriage and I’m not going to lie I still question sometimes if I did the right thing. Reading on NPD and NVD validates that I’M REALLY NOT CRAZY!!!! I have a lot of work to do, but as I said one day at a time. Thank You for writing on this topic-it’s the only thing that makes me keep my sanity-information.
I’m so happy I found this tonight. I’ve been living with a victum of narcissism. Both by a parent and then a spouse. All I can do is educate myself on this life he was a victum of for 22 years. It helped by catching a show on Dr. Phil one day. I couldn’t figure out why he had such a life of hell. It was like a light bulb not only went off, it expkoded. As you may have noticed, he is a male who had a female doing the harm. Not much was found with the rolls reversed. Unfortunately he too, has a “text book narcissist” father. Double whammy. The “no contact” is at best the start of a hopeful understanding. Thank you so much.
You have shed light on a situation that I have been struggling to understand for years now. I am 46 and have been married for 23 years and I now realize I have been a victim of narcissistic abuse for most of my married life and quite possible was raised by a narcissistic single mother as an only child. I finally feel that I am not crazy as you validated my feelings over and over and over. Everything that you say hits the nail on the head. Your article has compelled me to research more on this subject and everything I am finding is reinforcing what I found here first with your article. I have forwarded this to my therapist who I am seeing tomorrow. I hope that he is equipped to handle this new found world. It concerns me that he has not brought this up and we have never discussed this in any sort of detail. Believe me we will be discussing it tomorrow. I am trying to build the strength to separate from my wife however like you say I am paralyzed. We have three children but only one that still lives at home (13). I am scared for me and I am scared for her as well. Not because I fear any physical harm but the mental anguish is almost unbearable at times. I pray that as I become more confident and more aware of what has happened to me that I can escape this stranglehold that unbeknownst to me has had me in its grips for years now. My story really is a book just waiting to happen. Maybe as I continue this journey I will also see it come full circle in a healing way and I just may write a book about it to maybe help others who are experiencing the same turmoil that I have endured. Thank you so much for your help and insight.
I have had a narcissistic past, my mother and flying monkey of a father. I feel like a burden when my husband rejects my pleas of anguish always have the “buck up attitude others have been through worse”. Today I wonder if he is a narc, all his tendencies lately have changed. My family and I had a quarrel and we no longer talk to them since finding out my mother is a narcissist. I have this anger towards myself all the time because I apparently mess up all the time to him.
I feel the disconnection sometimes, for me its very easy to apologize and move on, now I see that I have a difficult time facing the problem and when I stand up for myself I always lose. Yesterday I read your articles and for once in a while feel clarity. I am not sure if I just do not want to admit that he is narcissist but is it possible that change could be for being from a different source?
If he is a narcissist I would have to leave him for Our son, but I do not have a family to fall back to or anywhere to go. I am still learning more from your articles and from now on will participate in the forum I have been passively not sharing my story.
Thank you for your time to remember the victims of this abuse, your abuse has led to helping a world wide reach. now I can learn and help others where I can too.
Dear Lourie, In response to your private message to me, may I say that I know you are not past all the pain and destruction of what you went through . In truth it is not possible to eliminate all the hurt of our past history, and nor should we want to. The hurt can still serve us in a positive way for staying safe in the outside world with others in the future. When our hurt is triggered it is our soul’s way of inviting us to listen to the message of that wound…..there is something it is offering us that we have not yet learned. In some ways we never quite manage to become wound free, nonetheless, there is life after narcissistic abuse .
I am not sure what you mean when you say you are not a true survivor. But one thing I can tell you is that you are a true survivor in the sense that I mean it…….. you are still alive and have kept your mind. Unfortunately, not everybody manages to do that. Working in a psychiatric hospital for 4 years showed me many non-survivors.
You may not feel strong, and you may well be tired and weary of the struggle, but the fact that you do struggle tells me that your Spirit is strong…… “he” never managed to destroy that part of you with his hardheartedness. Surviving is one of the marks of those that are strong in the Spirit. When we are strong in the Spirit we are not afraid of consequences of taking a stand for righteousness….. every time you push through your pain, or speak out against this form of abuse, or write to give others encouragement, and continue to put one foot in front of the other even when jaded tired ……………. in effect, you are standing up against the injustice done to you…….to my mind “THAT IS BEING A TRUE SURVIVOR”
True survivors are Spiritual Warriors. That does not mean that they are without their scars, quite the contrary. Coming through narcissistic abuse means you have been through a war zone, whether it was a physical or psychological warfare (or both) you will have been deeply wounded, the scars of which last a lifetime. In spite of that, somehow or other the warrior finds the discipline to stay alive, they develop the mental focus that is essential for protecting themselves when dealing with the foreboding opponent in their life. Their persistence pushes them to face the difficulties, pain, and fear without quitting. They train hard to develop the skills needed to survive, and they recognize others who are struggling to survive with those same wounds, and welcome them with an outstretched hand.
Now girl, tell me you have not done all of this?
With the deepest of respect I applaud you in your struggle, because your struggle has been my struggle, and will continue to be the struggle of everybody who has suffered at the hands of a narcissist, malignant narcissist, or a psychopath. But together we form a strong body of people who can do our best to rise up and fight back against this form of abuse in a positive way: educating others, and bringing this awareness into the places that can deal better with the fall-out of this form of abuse. We need more research to be done into the preventative measures for getting this narcissistic epidemic under control, and provide better treatment measures for both perpetrators and victims. This is what I have been trying to do in my advocacy work: working one-to one with victims of narcissistic abuse, providing information on my website (narcissisticbehavior.net), training other therapists and mental health professionals, lecturing to the people who see the casualties of this war (i.e. law enforcers, social workers, solicitors, doctors, courts, etc.). I too am a Spiritual Warrior, and I feel the fear ever day as I am challenged in my mission. The one motivating theme that keeps me “putting one foot in front of the other” is the strength I get from all the other survivors who encourage me, and remind me that we are still at war against this form of abuse……….. and I am delighted to have you in my corner…… with all your invisible and unsightly wounds (lol).
Hi Liz, Yes, I must confess, I am a disaster when it comes to spelling, please forgive me. If I were to let it worry me it would paralyze me, I would never write a word, and I would have to carry this knowledge with me to the grave. On the other hand I am glad that the articles have been useful to you in your research, that is the most important thing. Well with two dysfunctional parents, that was not the best start for a child to grow up in. But in spite of it all, you are a glorious survivor. The truth is that you never had the control, with your parents, and your husband as you dance the narcissists Tango. Look at the symbolism of the Tango (the seduction, the dominance, the aggression, the power and control, etc.)……. it explains life with the narcissist so well. Time to invent your own dance, where you will then be in a position to pick who you want to dance with, and on your terms…. in step with the other, with grace and beauty. Recovery can be full of awe and wonder, so enjoy its challenges.
Laura, It is true that “the truth sets us free”….. and then being able to lift the veil on the illusion that was built around us. You sound so positive now that you have found that “Golden Key”. I am so glad for you, because you have still a lot of life to lead.
Yes! As you said, Christine – “information is the key to understanding what happened”. I am 57 and have just recently realized that my mother is NPD. Her abuse of me throughout my life has been so subtle that I did not realize I was being abused at all, always thought she was doing the best she could to be a good mother (and in truth, I do believe she did do her best, given her disorder) and so dismissed all the pain she inflicted upon me, and excused her behavior time and time again. Finally putting a label on what she is released me from a lot of the guilt and confusion I carried for most of my life. My father’s role as her enabler was equally abusive, and identifying this has been very healing as well. I guess what I’m trying to say is, learning about what really happened to me – that I am a survivor of narcissistic abuse – the validation alone that it really did happen and had devastating effects on my psychological development – the identification in and of itself – has been the golden key to unlocking the prison cell for me.
Thank you, this is great article. I don’t want to sound like a grammar nazi, but there are some spelling mistakes above and on the gas lighting paragraph. Thank you again for such a well put description of this problem. now, I know I am in a dance, but I can also have the cleverness to change this dance around. I am married with an alcoholic and both of my parents are N, being my father also a sociopath. That’s why I fall on a bunch of lies and married someone not too far from my parents sickness line. For now, I hate them all and myself. But, that will also pass and I’ll have the control on the dance or there will be no smooth dance in my marriage.
Actually, I started a year ago, but God do I still have so much to change. I hate not having the total control my life.
Kathryn, I agree with all that you say, you speak with the knowledge of someone who has been in this situation. I believe that it is vital to understand the behaviours of NPD, because it is the truth gleaned through information that sets you free. Actually information is the key to understanding what happened to you (all the brain washing nonsense, the gaslighting, the co-dependency, the having to be responsible for all that has happened in the relationship etc. etc. etc.)………… this information gives you the awareness of what was really happening in the relationship. As you say, it would have made your journey a lot faster if you had had this knowledge. Knowledge brings a truthful confident understanding of the subject of your abuse and your abuser, and with that knowledge one also gains a fuller awareness of self and other (abuser). This is when knowledge turns towards wisdom.
Knowledge and Wisdom are very different things. Knowledge is information, usually gleaned through learning, reflection, reasoned and logical thought, all of which brings awareness to our minds. Wisdom is knowing what to do with that knowledge. I suppose you could say that wisdom is an intangible quality gained through experience, giving us the ability to make correct judgments and decisions that will, without doubt, affect our future as it defines and refines our character. As you journey through recovery you will once again find your Spirit at the core of yourself, and once again you will find your true identity for becoming the truly authentic person you were meant to become. Recovery is difficult, but it is also full of awe and wonder as you discover your own true beauty once again. I hope this has been your experience in your therapy.
Hello
This education is a good idea. My therapy would have gone way faster if i was told about this. But i must say that often the victims are not ready to see their abuser as abuser. The abuser employs all tactics to make sure they are not seen as the abiser. They alter the victims reality of what is wrong and what is right while devastating self esteem. Until the victim is built up enough to stand up against the abuser and process the pain of abuse they will not be able to get angry at abuser. Lack of anger is also a major sign for victims. Adding to the self doubt of this article. The abuser never stops to create doubt in the victim. It it a daily routine of esteem cutting remarks, lack of routine, daily suprise attacks to increase life unpredictability, random volatility.
Lourie, It gladdens my heart to read your comment…..congratulations to you on your magnificent recovery. What you say is fantastic news for you, but also for other readers, especially those who have little hope of ever finding their identity again. These days and triggers serve as good reminders that no matter what is going on for you to-day, things can be much worse. But you came back from unbelievable madness (not yours, but your abuser), and that shows how strong you really are, a true survivor. Others need to know that recovery is possible, but each person is different, requiring different amounts of healing time. Thank you for the message of hope. Christine
Have glanced through the NVS article while at work. Unreal. It’s like you’ve cracked upon my head and heart and put it on paper. This was me… still some remnants but nothing like the day I left in November 2010. Almost back to the real me… but here are times, days, triggers… I know it will get better… but all I can says is WOW!!!!
Hi John, your story is heart-breaking even for me to read. Unfortunately your story is actually very common, which is even more alarming. You loved this lady, for a lifetime (43 years), and there is no shame in that, it is very beautiful. What is not beautiful is that this deception was planned by her, from the very beginning when she asked you to rescue her……. my guess is that # 3 rumbled her, and she was not able to get what she wanted from him, so moved on to you……. shame on her.
This lady is not your common garden type narcissist, she is Machiavellian and sadistic, with no conscience what-so-ever, more likely a sub-clinical psychopath. I say sub-clinical because she probably manages to stay below the radar of the law, so probably will never be diagnosed by anybody. This is the ultimate dangerous liason……… but of course, you know that now.
You identify that she is a pathological liar, not only by commission, but by omission. As for her “gaslighting”, you were never meant to work that out…..this is why it is seen as psychological warfare. While you were in love with her, she was at war with you……. and that is very hard to accept. A lot of the behaviours of the victim are actually unconscious defense mechanisms………. they were there to protect you, that was what allowed you to survive the hurt of 9 years of pain and humiliation. There is no need for you to put yourself up there on the cross, you have been crucified already, time now to forgive yourself for your ignorance of this personality disorder………. how could you have known…….you fell for a Master seductress, that’s all…… it happens to millions all around the globe. I tell you the truth, I have had people from over 150 countries visit my site, all having been gaslighted in a similar way. Now don’t tell me all these people are stupid. No, they were just descent people loving in the way we are called to love another. It is time to place the blame back where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of these perpetrators.
It has been my experience that victims need to look at their unconscious defense mechanisms, why they are “pleasers”, and give more than they get in return……. healthy relationships are reciprocal, that is “give and take”. The relationship you were in was all give on your part, and all take on hers. You need to balance this out in yourself, otherwise you may find yourself back in the same predicament with another vampire.
Go easy with yourself. Warmest regards. Christine
Very well said. I have only recently been able to see that the person I have been in love with for the past 43 years, and married to for the past 9, never really existed except in my head. The real person turned out to be a liar, a serial cheater, and a thief. My concern is that I knew she was all these and married her anyway, and that’s what I am in therapy to find out about. I was her 4th husband before she turned 47. I knew she had cheated on the father of her children (husband #2). I knew she had seduced a married man (the mailman for God’s sake) to be her 3rd husband. I knew she was married to #3 when she called me from half a country away and said she wanted me to rescue her from him and for me to be #4, even though we had had no contact for 7 years (we bumped into each other repeatedly during the time we have know each other). She cheated on all of us. She cheated on #3 with me, but she convinced me that I was the ONE and I believed her lies (I WANTED to believe her) and that she was committed to me.
Only after learning about NPD can I see what she is, and she has many of the behaviors, including an uncanny ability to observe the new supply and take on characteristics it will like. I now see that I have many of the behaviors of the survivors (I still defend her, the brainwashing, having been seriously gaslighted and developed self-doubt, as she had convinced me I was the one who was nuts, all the while telling me that I needed to live in the real world). I was feeding her supply and when I stopped, she dropped me like I was nothing.
Now I understand why, as I was taking my last load out of “our” house (which she tricked me into practically giving her, and where she is currently living with the new supply, who also is married, as are we still, and who moved in three days after I moved out) she was able to calmly and with no emotion offer to fold my underwear and socks, which she had just finished washing and was taking out of the dryer, and put them in a box for me to take.
I am so thankful to be out of this mess and away from this heartless deceiver.
Hi Fatima,
The fact that you have now discovered that you are dealing with someone with a narcissistic personality disorder puts you ahead of the posse. Continue to read as much as you can on the subject, read the experiences of other victims on the Narcissistic Forums, that way you will feel supported and know that you are not going crazy. Don’t put yourself in any danger, do whatever it takes to keep yourself safe. Plan your escape with precision, and if possible get safe and secure people to support you for when the time is right ……but be sure you can trust them. If possible get yourself a therapist who will help you deal with your suicidal thoughts, and use your faith and prayers to keep your Spirit strong. When you read other similar stories on the forums, you will see that there can be life after the narcissist is out of your life, but it takes courage to trust that.
Thanks to all that have shared.
Everything that was written in the article is spot on.
I just wish that I can walk away soon, with dignity and hopefully with all my bodily parts intact.
I do have suicidal thoughts but I’m also very religious and hoping things work out for me.
I couldn’t tell if I was the problem or not. I was sexually abused in the family that I was adopted into. I had made an attempt to tell my birth-family about it. I had run into a man that said he was my dad and he and my aunt were going to hold me out for some kind of exploitation. I thought I was the narcissistic one when I would react to what was going on. I was also the victim of gas-lighting and I reacted with anger, depression and everything. After what I went through, the guy who said he was my biological father, would put me down and tell me I was bad to my parents and so forth. I thought I was being punished for something. I did have a troubled childhood due to dysfunction-but I couldn’t tell if it was me???? Can someone please offer help to unravel this so I can feel whole again? I also don’t know how to heal from the gaslighting that was done to me. I am not perfect either.
My mother is malignantly narcissistic and absolutely everything this article mentions has happened to me and I possess all the symptoms you explain in describing the ‘cluster’ of characteristics…
“The dissociation is an automatic and effective defense mechanism to overwhelming acute stress the child is being subjected to; it is as if the child “jumps out” of their body in order to disconnect from the intolerable reality of the abuse while it is happening; by dissociating, the child is able to endure the highly traumatic experience without having to fully experience it.”
For me, I had to do this to show my mother that she was having no effect on me whatsoever (in spite of feeling the absolute torture inside) – because if I showed my pain – if I showed weakness, then she would relish it – she would see that and it would excite her to dig in deeper – she would not stop until she saw me break, and then when I would break, she would point out how crazy I was – how I needed psychological help – she would clearly enjoy the fact that she broke me – then she would stop until the next time – I realize now how I dissociated in order to quite literally save my life. I now, as a consequence, am absolutely terrified to show any feelings to anyone (even myself)… good or bad – joy or sadness… my feelings are there constantly torturing me every day – yet I can’t let them out no matter how much I can intellectually understand NPD – why she did what she did – and its effects… I am literally terrified. I see that now.
One thing I struggle with though is when you said, “What I hope is that my study will allows for more compassion towards both the narcissist and…”.
The one thing that has been helping me cope is the knowledge of the fact that they CAN control themselves and that they CHOOSE not to. I have always assigned the guilt that I know I would feel onto my mother – assuming that she must be so torn up inside for what she has done… I could not fathom how someone could do what she did to me and not only know that she was doing it, but ENJOY it.
Compassion for a narcissist??? To see the self control a narcissist has when they are out in public – in my mothers case, the ‘fact’ that she was a loving, warm, supportive, nurturing mother would hit people in waves. They would be so euphoric in her love of me that they would tell me that they wished their mother was like mine… As soon as we would get behind closed doors the switch would flip… If you have compassion towards a person like my mother, then that would mean I would have to as well… and essentially that denies me my right to suffer. I honestly don’t understand how you could say that. This has been the hardest part for me… trying SO HARD to get past the guilt long enough to see her for the monster she deserves to be seen as! I can’t get there. I can’t stop protecting her and I need to SEE her for what she is and now you come along and tell me I should feel COMPASSION??????????
Otherwise, a very good article where every sentence touched a nerve in me … inviting me to fall apart. Yet I am terrified to do it.
you have given me hope, my wife and I divorced after 25 years of marriage last year and one daughter. I had became ill and that had taken the focus of the amount of attention I was able to five my wife, that part I figured on my own. what I did not know was the was the extent to it effected her, with in no time I was being lied to and with in weeks I was sent divorce papers, she bashed me to all my friends and family, I lost everything, except hope,i was so confused, when I asked her why she was doing this she said I dot know. the day she got the divorce paper she wanted she tried to commit suicide because she said she couldn’t believe what she had done, talk about a mind f%$#&ing for me, anyway there is so much more to this that may help you in your research if you would like to contact me via email directly, or I can lay it all out here, but u must warn you 25 years together and all the events looking back should be sencored, but honestly I believe that putting it all out there for all to see can help others as well as my self. its up to, let me
WOW, from all my research that I have done on this you have nailed it.
I AM A VICTIM,
You will always be scarred. You will always have to cope with the memory. You will learn that it was never love, and love becomes unimportant; you just want it to go away, but it is always there. One word, that has nothing to do with it can trigger the memory of it. It is much like dysfunctional grief that does not leave. Do bad things happen to good people? Yes.
Hi Christine,
I am appalled at your story with your psychiatrist. I can appreciate your confusion after your therapy with this man. What you describe is abuse, not therapy. You should not feel bad about showing your vulnerability at being a victim, that is totally appropriate for any client in therapy. The therapists needs to know as much of each clients story as possible, so that they can be most effective in the process work. He took advantage of you, and acted out abuse under the guise of a trusting health professional……that is just wrong…….shame on him. He should be reported, but I am not suggesting for one moment that you take him on.
Unfortunately your story is more common than it should be, this profession attracts narcissistic personalities because it gives these psychopaths ready access to victims. Therapists can hide behind their profession, they can use power and control over vulnerable clients, and get well paid in the process. There is no witness in the room, so they can defend themselves very well even when a complaint is made against them……. they say that clients are often looking for affection, and mistook the transference process for something other than what it was. When the therapist tried to hold a professional boundary, the client felt rejected and reacted badly, etc. etc.
I am so sorry for what has happened to you, but I am really glad that you had enough of yourself to know that it felt wrong, and got out while you still had your sanity. Many clients are not so strong.
Warmest regards.
Christine
Dear Christine and community,
I would like to report a conundrum so mind-boggling it’s unfathomable. I grew up with a father who has Borderline Personality Disorder, and so suffer from NVS. I knew nothing about this syndrome until very recently, although I was diagnosed with C-PTSD by a psychiatrist. This same psychiatrist practices psychodynamic psychotherapy based in psychoanalysis. He invited me to work with him in his private practice after seeing me for that one session, wherein I told him about my past, my chronic insomnia, and the very recent ending of my romantic partnership. Since I was aware of my pattern of becoming involved with narcissists etc. I desperately wanted to heal and become aware, and I have always had a passion for psychotherapy.
I had no idea how dehumanizing the structure of this type of therapy generally is. When I first started, I wanted information about my diagnosis, the therapist and how he works etc. but there was a virtual blackout on all “real” information (one of the main characteristics of an emotionally abusive relationship). Not only that, but he used gaslighting, refused to ever take responsibility for his part in things, would gouge me out of the blue with the most insidious, hurtful comments without ever explaining how it was supposed to be helpful. Add the fact that he did the “blank slate” routine, kept his voice at a monotone even when being abusive, and would correct my impressions of things (happening either within or outside of the room) in a stern, final sort of manner, as though bequeathing some kind of “truth” that I, the “crazy” one, obviously was seeing improperly. On and on and on I can list the parallels to a relationship with a narcissist. I can only conclude that: a)The man is a narcissist, and there is the distinct possibility that he poached me at my most vulnerable for supply, b) That the therapy structure (psychoanalysis etc.) is emotionally abusive and essentially mirrors that of a narcissistic relationship, and c) That somehow, I have been given by the Universe the most horrific trauma I could never imagine in order to deal with my wounds.
Now, once again, I know very little about psychoanalysis, but what I do know seems inhumane and backwards. However, if somehow the goal was for me to re-enact the abusive relationship that created the original trauma, this was done in such an insidious, manipulative, and covert way that I had a complete breakdown, had to get the hell away from the therapist before he drove me off the deep end, and am left wondering if the venture was designed to help me at all. That is, if I simply attracted another narcissist because my wounds were showing (I naively showed them to a psychiatrist!)or if his abuse was actually supposed to guide me in the direction of addressing my wounds, in a psychodynamic model. My feeling is that it’s all of the above: narcissist, bad therapy, traumatic epiphany. Plus, I am aware that the mental health community is severely lacking in knowledge pertaining to NVS and C-PTSD, and hope that the type of therapy was just a horrible mis-match from an individual who meant well. This needs to stop! The parallels between psychoanalysis and narcissistic abuse are uncanny and lives are at stake.
Thanks for hearing me out. Keep up the great work!
Love from Christine.
A Question?
Can latent bipolar disorder exacerbate a mild narcissist and ultimately accelerate the condition into full and extreme NPD.
My ex of 28 years grew up on a family with a narcissistic, violent and dry alcoholic father and a bipolar mother (who probably was also suffering NPD victim syndrome.)
They worshiped success and money. I’ve known these people for 30 years, cold, selfish, and emotionally unavailable and immature. No insight at all.
We met in high school and commenced a relationship in our early twenties
For ten years our relationship was stormy but he did love me and I adored him.
I have a strong willed personality and held my own and am high empath, he depended on me very much for emotional support and our relationship was more or less balanced.
As the kids arrived and I had to share myself with him and the children as well as being totally financially dependent, the balance shifted in his favour.
He became more cold to me although he loved the kids.
Then he started becoming less successful in his career and withdrew further.
Then he had what can only be described as Bipolar episodes. massive upswings when something seemed to be verging on a huge coupes, followed by manic panic attacks, paranoia and crashes.
(I had to get the CAT (crisis assessment team) out twice.
He was provisionally diagnosed with Bipolar at the age of 40.
Then, always a heavy drinker, things spiraled out of control over ten years.
10 years of gaslighting, financial abuse, mind games…yes I thought I would go insane.
Fortunately for me, he met another woman and left us.
The usual horror of the divorce settlement, abusive emails, coupled with the bipolar spending and delusional financial vindictiveness followed.
He gradually descended into alcoholism and madness and died a year ago.
Few of our mutual friend understood the horror of my situation, they acknowledge that he was going over the edge but no one sane would understand the lenghth he would go to if I ever attempted to assert myself. Always mental abuse mine you, never physical.
Anyone in a relationship with an NDP should get away BEFORE their lives become too entwined with children and property.
People ask why I didn’t leave?
What people don’t understand with mainly mental and financial abuse, is that as things get worse, one keeps moving the line as to what is “normal”
Another thing a therapist should be very wary of is this..
If one convinces the victim that they have been living a lie for ???? years, it can only further damage their self esteem.. Nothing annoys me more than when people say to me things like, you must be glad he is dead..or we always knew he was a bully…you poor thing..
I chose to stay, initially because he needed me.. everyone in his life had abused and abandoned him.
It was later when he was worse and out of control I was trapped. I thought my strength would be enough to save us all.. I was wrong ..but don’t pity me.
I have survived.. I still have some difficulties at work, needing constant reassurance, difficulty remembering verbal instructions, difficulty sticking to a task and strangely a need to assert myself when really non is needed. (This makes my very tolerant and supportive bosses a bit vexed and causes me anxiety afterwards)
One thing that annoys me a little is the constant demonisation of the NPD.. is it stockhausen syndrome to feel intense pity for someone that had such a bad childhood it probably caused most of their lives to be miserable?
Don’t misunderstand, I had to distance myself but the pity I felt even when he was at his worst remains even after his death.
To Stuck in supply:
Thank you so much for your post. I have to tell you that it is one of the best I have ever received…… it contains some HOPE.
Hope? Yes hope, because I was delighted to hear that your psychologist was able to shine the light on what was happening in your marriage……that is rare that narcissistic tendencies are picked up so quickly…..so well done to your therapist.
Hope? Then your marriage counsellor picks up on the behaviour of your wife again….fantastic!
Hope? Your wife has the courage to admit her own problems, and be willing to work on them. This does not often happen, after all, most narcissists think they are perfection.
Hopefully your medication will take the edge of your anxiety, and that it will only be needed temporarily……. then you can ween off it slowly. Your fear is understandable, but at least you are willing to see if things can really change. I cannot guarantee that they can, but if you have to walk away, at least you will do so in the knowledge that you tried everything.
You need time if you are to get past all the hurt, and it is “time” that will be your teacher. Your life together will not be the same, but that is not necessarily a bad thing….. what you thought was love was really a sham. What matters most is that you can move on from the past, and if not, then you may have to part.
There is no reason why you should fall back into being a doormat (either with you wife or in another relationship). Your eyes are open now, you will be quick to see narcissistic behaviour in the future everywhere, remember you did not have the awareness before that you have now…… why settle for crumbs in any relationship when you can have the cake. Go a step at a time, you will know if your wife is letting you into her life as she deals with her past. Most narcissists do not want to do the work in therapy…..they tend to sack the
therapist, saying “they are useless”….especially when the therapist challenges them. Perhaps your wife is willing to do the work, perhaps she wants a better relationship with you…..time will tell. If her going to therapy is just a ploy to manipulate you into staying, then you will see through it. But I would give her the benefit of the doubt right now….. let her prove herself.
Wishing you both the best of luck together, I hope you can make it, for yourselves and the children.
Warmest regards. Christine
Christine
Thanks for the great article.
After much reading I’ve realised my wife is Narcissistic. It only came out after she pushed one more boundary and then sent me off to “get fixed” by a psychologist again. Luckily my psychologist recognised that it wasn’t me with the issues and gave me some courage to fight. My wife ticks ALL the boxes but isn’t an extreme case. Way more than narcissistic tendencies, but no violence.
We’ve got 2 young kids together so it’s really hard to leave her.
After I threatened to leave and started to pack my bags I got some progress. We’ve started seeing a new marriage Councillor who now has recognised that my wife has the issues and is about to start one on one with her. Again it’s a relief that it’s not my fault.
I’ve started anti-depressants to relieve my anxiety and help me cope with day to day life.
My wife admits openly now that she has almost no emotions except anger. No empathy. Little love. Just anger. She is also starting to look into her troubled childhood which she previously remembered as idyllic.
But I live in fear. Fear of more emotional damage, fear of the lies, fear of the manipulation. Also fear of wasting another 10 years without getting any love back or getting my needs met. Fear of damaging my kids if I run away and can’t moderate my wife’s behaviour.
Strangely my wife is a good mother. Part of her “false” self is presenting 2 perfect children to the world. She’s reduced the sudden angry outbursts when I told her that it damaged the kids. She’s also pretending to love me, but it doesn’t ring true.
Can I be whole? Can I ever trust her? Can this be a real marriage?
And when the therapy ends and she gets her supply back am I just going to be the doormat again? I’m always going to have to hold a part of me back.
This is so true . I was always unaware and attracted them one after the other . I have done counseling on and off over 20 years and yet I’m in the same boat all the time. Growing up in a single parent home and an only child I was doomed from the start. Not one counsler has ever mentioned Narcissist to me . There was always something I couldn’t put my finger on . To my surprise an associate saw it first hand. I looked it up and it fit . Like cinderella’s shoe . I’m divorcing one now who has slandered me to Isolation. I had to leave the state. I went home after 26 years to another nightmare. I was a hostage in the car 3 times with her. The first time she wouldn’t let me out. I was screaming pull over. She drove faster totally ignoring me. I started punching the horn . When I pulled my hand back after the 10th time it hit her chin. It was so eery because it was like she snapped out of something to reality . Then she acted like I assaulted her for no reason. Why is that , is she multiple personality or what ? Anyone have any experience with that ?
I have read my life and marriage on this page. How frightening (yet validating) to know that it really ISN’T just me that’s gone crazy. Thank you for the clarity and the knowledge to know that there is hope for healing.
Christine/Others:
Are you aware of any experts (practitioners and/or academics) in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome/Abuse in the Minneapolis/St.Paul area of Minnesota?
Thanks!
Chad
Does anyone know of an expert (practitioner or academic) in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area of Minnesota?
Thanks!
very good information. especially about NVS. can we bring back lost lives ? no. and then to deal with crippling conditions. for those who were concerned about getting therapy without money—I recommend my guru–Melanie Tonia Evans. Bless HER!
For Erica,
Look up Melanie Tonia Evans—she is my guru.
Best
I’ve been reading up on narcissism in recent years quite a bit and have reason to believe that since angrily ending a friendship with someone with NPD, this is what I’ve been going through (NVD). Mind you for much of my life, I’ve already had major self esteem issues. How I came to befriend this guy was through a volunteer position at a community computer access centre. And I think almost from the time I first met him something was amiss. He had just taken a job as the centre’s co-ordinator. I remember when he was interviewing me the topic turned to hobbies, and when we mentioned what our first albums bought were he just glowed almost excessively. From then on I gradually came to secretly dislike him. He had (and still has, I think) another job at a music store, and he ended up selling me my electric guitar.
But to get more to the point, I remember that sometimes when a client would leave, he would make a negative comment about them that he had heard, and I felt that I didn’t need to know that. He was always flirting with other women behind his common-law wife’s back and getting high off of it. He also claimed that most nights he’d stay up until 2 am. No wonder he was calling in sick so much the last year we were open. And of course, you never knew when he was going to lose it and take it out on someone violently.
There are other things I could mention, but in short I think my so-called friend felt that the rules didn’t apply to him. He thought he was omnipotent and didn’t know when to leave well enough alone. The real kicker was when I heard him say twice “I don’t think I’ll ever grow up!”
Since the centre closed and our “friendship” ended I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster which even resulted in a suicide attempt (I have schizophrenia). I’m also dealing with a socially impotent mother and crumbling house. I did get another position at a local hospital and while it’s a more positive environment, there are still negative attitudes among people there towards mental illness, and have revealed it rarely. I did mention that I think NVD is what I’m dealing to my psychiatrist and I feel I’ve been suffering in silence. I just wish my mother and I could move, because this situation is really depressing.
This is one of the most thorough articles I’ve read on Narcissistic Sociopathy. I’ve bookmarked this site for further reading. Thank you.
I appreciate the article and what it offers. Thank you, it’s been hell.
My ex-wife is narcissistic but I only realized this after reading books and articles about narcissism. I started searching for answers after she filed for divorce in Jan. 2012. I was devastated and eventually was compelled to go to a counselor, who had experience with narcissists. I decided to fight her for the domiciallary parent right and hired an attorney. Last week the psychiatric evaluations were submitted and the psychiatrist recommended that my three children live with me but she stopped short of naming NPD. Now we wait for it to go back to the judge.
I have known for years that something was wrong and had actually recognized some of the things that she did. I have now begun to try to understand what affect she has had on me. I know that my self-esteem is very low but I did not recognize that it could be an effect of her NPD. Yes, I have tears too.
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To Kristin: I have the same feeling..”I will only be free when he is exposed” My friends are telling me over and over i have to leave this to Karma and let it go.. No contact ever again..
I am a victim from The Netherlands. My ex-husband is a narcist. I told me a lot over the years. I finally realized that it was not me. He was projecting his behaviour on me. I wish i learned more about this during my marriage. Now it’s too late. i ended up in a hospital. He convinsed the doctors that i had borderline syndrome, i was paranoid, i was adicted to alcohol & drugs. No of it was the truth. When he convinced my own mother that he wasn’t abusive and she turned he back on my, i couldn’t take it anymore. They convinced the doctors that i needed to be closed up in a secured mental institution. I spent two days of my life in there, fearing for my life. In the two days i learned i had sufferd traumatic experiences during my marrige and youth. I had no personality disorder. My ex uses my breakdown to get custody over my son. I lost everything. My son, my home, financial security, my two cats and my dignity. I am very concerned over my son…. He’s living with his father. My son have to indure hearing lies about his mother. My ex tells him i don’t want to see him. My son is not allowed to have any contact with my when he’s at his father. I am afraid the agression. My son is afraid, is scared to love his mother without conseqenses. My son needed therapy, but they could’nt help him. He scared tot tell the truth. I am still afraid. Not of the phycical abuse, but for the words. I have nightmares, flashback and panic attacks. I try to pick up the pieces.. It’s a fight for itself. No one believes me or takes me serious. Everything always ends up with me. Thank you for writing about it & excuse my for my grammar, i am dutch..
Wonderful article. I’ve shared it on my fb page narc-ology. If anyone needs help finding resources you can find me there.
All I can say is “wow.” I was diagnosed with PTSD last year because of years of emotional abuse by a narcissist. This article is great. He continues his abuse through the court system. I am hoping, and praying, that one day courts will see articles like yours and understand how evil these people are.
Thank you for such a thought provoking article. It made me look at things from an entirely different perspective. I’ve had no contact with my ex for a year now but sadly I’ve been through every symptom that you’ve talked about here. My only problem is that since the Narc is in my class at university, I not only have to see him every day but constantly fear that I might be paired up with him some day to work together on something or probably put in the same group which is something I just won’t be able to take. How would i react? What would I say to him? Another thing that constantly bothers me is that because we have a big bunch of mutual friends, I’m afraid he might start smear campaigning against me. I can’t go around explaining everyone what I have been through but I don’t want a screwed up reputation either. I have even stopped speaking to a few classmates who are his friends thinking that he might have turned them against me. I’ve gone to every length for a no contact, avoiding people he’s friends with, not going to places where he hangs out etc etc but I can’t leave school for him. My day is perfect when I don’t see him around but when I do, I get horrible flashbacks. I’ve changed a lot in the last one year (mostly for the better) and various sites and articles such as yours have inspired me to stop blaming myself and realise that it is the abuser who is ALWAYS at fault. I have also learnt both from my own experience and from the stories of others that no contact is indeed the best remedy but what if its just not possible in a situation like mine? What do you do if you’re forced to work with your ex narc and survive at a place where you constantly feel threatened by his presence?
I am so happy that finally there is some forward movement in getting others to understand. My issue is that mine was a sociopath, so getting anyone to fully comprehend on any level is difficult. I found myself getting frustrated because the reality is no matter what happens I BELONG TO HIM. Everything was planned out. I understand this all after 2 years, just getting out of shock now. Four months after his strangulation attempt- only reason I got away– not by choice — but because i was surviving for the ten years we were together. Everyday day, in retrospect, I was just trying to literally stay alive—the yearly kill attempts did not make me not go back because it was all set up by him :IT: I was not living or doing things that did not have strings he was pulling , which i was completely unaware of (Stockholm syndrome), Its everything written above except I was prey and good pickings for his cultivation as a sexual slave, a scapegoat, a everything, it was a 24/7 job, his addictions were not that they were underlying symptoms or causalities of him “IT” being a sociopath. How I see it i was kidnapped rape and became part of his game of life, My Life, but i didn’t know i was playing and the rules were ever changing because there could never be happy, fulfilled, etc because they are not capable of human emotions. Not one person warned me or planted a seed for the entire time. Four months after i started having what i have coined as “MEMORY Recalls” because flashbacks as were defined to me inst what happened. Everything was a trigger, my entire existence was related to him, so the trigger would then become a continuum of events one hitting another and another (EXHAUSTING) but it would not be one, or even the major traumas. The major traumas were cut and dry, it was the 27/7 abuse, manipulation , brainwashing, that causes it impossible to fathom the extent of it. How the heck could I let alone anyone lived a week in that atmosphere let alone 10 years of it. To me i take it as I did and don’t want to die; not suicidal and not depressed… I should even be writing this letter… And the fears are actual true never ending because they him it is never done with you no matter how many days months years have passed… I’m too tired to give details, or a better history of it but its text book at the highest degree of sociopath(which are narcissists) not all narcissists are sociopaths. That’s what makes finding people who get it or understand so hard. I can be there and know for others but why isn’t there more scope on sociopaths and their victims. Sorry this isn’t more complete like i would like it to be or concise but I am in the after math of it and all that is is conscious abuse by the system any everyone… I AM ME is my new thing so I know I will get the truth out. I will only be free when he is exposed. The emotional warfare that is stilled played is something that only I know and see and others just cant or dint understand the complexity of it. My favorite example is a revengeful abuser throws a rock though a car window, a sociopath injects one tire on your car with something that on a certain day, in a certain year your tire will blow out….
What an amazing and enlightening article, thank you, thank you, thank you. Also to all who have shared their experiences as well with NPD spouses, parents, siblings thank you as well. I have recently escaped a 22 year relationship (17 years married) with an NPD husband who I believe would be a 9.5 on a scale of 1 to 10 for NPD behaviors. As many have expressed here, I have sought therapy but found that the depth of my experience with this NPD person was drastically misunderstood. I also have 3 children with this man and I am terrified for their well being. My youngest two (ages 10 &13) I believe have a chance of recovery with help and guidance. The oldest at 17 has grown up with this and I blame myself every minute of every day for allowing him to have spent his childhood in such a hostile, damaging environment. He has become that well behaved child (almost adult now) who believes that if he can control his behavior, and watch for the triggers in his dad that he can have a good relationship with him.
The first time i read about NPD I felt like all the blood had drained from my body. Every word resonated with me and it finally clicked that I wasn’t absolutely crazy for thinking that my relationship with my husband wasn’t normal. I had reached out to my local police, and the domestic violence resources in my area seeking help with the Jekyl & Hyde personalities and the Narcissistic rages (not knowing that was what they were at that time). There were so many times that I endured rage episodes that went on for hours and hours, often fleeing the house with my kids only to be reeled back in by his apologies and manipulative charm.
So many of the characteristics that you identify in the NPV person are things that I find in myself. However, I refuse to think of myself as a victim; rather a survivor who was victimized. I will not let his torture and degradation define my ro my children’s future. I’ve been very lucky to have amazing friends who don’t truly understand what I and my children have endured, but who give their whole hearted support to our recovery.
Thank you for helping us identify what draws us to these sadistic NPD personalities in the hope of never being drawn into that deadly flame again.
Hello. I have spent a very long time reading about NPD & trying to find help for victims of NPD. This article was such an eye opener. I am not involved with someone, but my 50 yo brother is. He has been with her for around 14 years & they now have 3 children, 11, 9 & 7. I won’t go into the whole story, but I will say that she has managed to remove me, my daughter, my sister & her husband from his life. He & I were always very close & I still love him dearly, but I no longer could put up with things he was doing to hurt us. We all knew that he was doing ‘as he was told’ by her, but in the end I just couldn’t take it any more & told him I no longer wanted a relationship with him. He has made my mum cry so often, recently telling my parents his children hated them & no longer wanted anything to do with them, so don’t bother sending cards or gifts as they don’t want anything from you anymore. He told my daughter that his children wouldn’t be coming to her 18th as his wife wasn’t invited so the kids didn’t want to come. This was an outright lie as the invitation was addressed to him & family, so it was her choice not to come & then manipulate the kids into believing it was better for them to stay home with her rather than go to see their cousin they once loved. My bro came to her 18th but came 2 hours late & left after an hour, really not speaking to either of us. He puts his wife on a pedestal & although he has said to my parents ‘I know she has problems’ he refuses to see anything she does that causes us hurt is a problem. I am wondering is there a way that we can make him see she is suffering NPD? Now it’s very hard to do anything as I have said I don’t want a relationship with him anymore, but both my younger brothers still have contact with him. Does it have to come from him first or is there a way that he can be shown that what is happening to him is not normal. She has made him go to therapy as she made him believe everything that happens in their life is all his problem. She has recently put up something on facebook saying how you can love someone that’s broken & he has commented, thank you for loving me as broken as I am. Yes he is broken now, but never was. He was always the most caring loving person in the world, now he’s just a confused broken person. He has that disassociation where he can’t focus when you speak to him. It’s like he’s in lala land. He just isn’t the person I grew up with & loved so dearly. I am so worried he’s going to have a heart attack as he is constantly stressed, has insomnia & works so very hard, not only in his job as an entertainment agent, but also is singer in a band & sings at least 3 nights a week. Then he has to come home do homework with the kids. He hasn’t got time to think. I truly worry about him. Any information on how this can be handled would be greatly appreciated, or as I said earlier, is this something that he has to realize before we can assist him. Thanks again for your input here, it’s really made me feel like I have a far better understanding of the situation. Linda 🙂
Thank you for this article. One thing I’ve had trouble finding is information on how to support someone who’s coping with NPVS. I believe I am married to someone with NPVS. Her mother was likely NPD and she was in a long-term relationship with a man who was NPD (the relationship ended in 2006). He had a daughter from a previous marriage and it was always a source of trauma for her.
I am hoping for some advice, because I have a daughter from a previous marriage and every time my daughter comes to visit my wife shuts down. She refuses to even consider trusting my daughter and she makes me feel like crap for bringing her around. I want to be a good father and continue having visitation with my daughter, but it puts such a strain on my marriage I am almost at my wit’s end. Is it possible that my wife will ever not be suspicious and mistrusting of my daughter? I love them both so much and I could never stop seeing either one of them. Is there something I can do to help ease the tension it causes in our relationship?
Thanks,
Tom
This is awesome! I have an unusual and complicated case. I have adopted a child that exhibits these behaviors towards me, the mother figure. She has issues with the mother figure because of her past trauma. I have been blindsided by these behaviors along with every other home she has been in. No one has been able to help her or understand the situation. I am now understanding why, this situation is beyond most therapist’s knowledge. This helps me make sense of what has happened and what is currently going on. Thanks!
Words cannot express how happy I was to read about NVS. I am a victim and have been for 25 years until my awakening 12 months ago. I have always felt completely alone and isolated with no one to turn to. That is partly because no one knows that my husband is an emotional and verbal abuser, since it all happens in private so he can maintain his glorified public image. He is a classic stealth narcissist and on the continuum of 0-10 for narcissism I would rate him at around 8.75 on the NPD scale. These last 25 years of my life have been so soul destroying, loveless and confusing that there are literally no words to describe it. It all makes perfect sense to me now and I can see him for what he really is. What you have described could be written about me. I have lost my sense of self and self esteem, I have generalized anxiety, bouts of depression, fears and phobias, etc. I have been seeing a Clinical Psychologist for around 6 months now and although it is not a quick fix, I find that just being able to tell my story is therapeutic. I’m still lost in the wilderness though and have my ups and downs but I feel like I’m slowly crawling my way out of the darkness. It’s a lonely journey and the continual feeling of abandonment is what makes it so hard. Most people don’t even know what narcissism and narcisstic personality disorder are, let alone what NVS is, so I would be wasting my time trying to explain myself. Additionally, because my narcissist has cultivated such a perfect public image and is himself a medical practioner of high standing, everyone thinks he is a wonderful person and if there is a problem in our relationship it would be me who has the problem. I need lot’s of therapy to heal my wounds and hope that NVS becomes officially recognised as soon as possible to that professionals treating this are able to develop appropriate therapy. It’s serious abuse when someone can destroy your entire life without ever being caught. I’ll never get back the past 25 years of my life but I hope that therapy will at least help me get myself back.
Thank you so much for sharing….when i read what you wrote….you basically stated everything i went and am still going through… and have the same questions….i truly dont feel alone anymore with this blog….i have a lot to learn still and will i am sure for a lifetime…but it is imperative that systems, therapists, etv get to know about this and support victims of such a crime….as to me this is insane that we try to reach out when we finally realize we are victims of such abuse and everywhere you go, the doors get shut or you are seen as the one with the problem….and when you break down as you don’t know how to react or deal with your truth anymore….you only support the narcissist in your life to see you and have everyone see you as the crazy one….education is key not only for us but for family court, criminal justice system, child protection systems etc…..i am dealing with child and family system at this time as our daughter developed an eating disorder non specified….and they insist that i meet with her father…..you are dammed if you don’t want to as you know he will twist everything you say and the pay back after the session if he confront him with anything he did not follow through with in the recommendations for our daughter’s well being will be hell…..i wanted to bring the woman in crisis worker to sessions with the therapist without my ex husband for support and even the child and family eating disorder consultant refused me to have that support….it is unbelievable how you are victimed not only once but by many other systems….that are suppose to be there for support….and help….i feel for all of us going through this…..and too bad the narcissists in our lives dont feel they have a problem and seek help…as this would make things good too…..we all need help//// like our son said…after we watched a movie on bullying….he said to me…mom you need to do something about dad bullying you….and i did….and all i got was doors closed and slapped with changing custody ….because i decided to talk and get help…..our children have learned that there is no help out there…eventhough i keep telling them there is….but their experience with everything that has happpened is there isn’t…..again, i have the kids seeking professional help for them so they have a neutral person to help them but i do question their training in understanding this and being able to help the kids cope and deal with what they are experiencing….i am learning you can only do your best…..as a parent and be there…..you have no control about what happens beyond that….
thank you for your words of advice….i have had therapy and continue to do so and did bring up your suggestions and i have been diagnosed with ptsd and we do have a plan in place to help stop the abuse by no communication with him which has made a huge difference in my healing he still tries to intimidate me…will follow me….when i drop off the kids to him as we are separated and have been for years and the courts reversed the full custody i had of the children to parrallel parenting after i went to the police after he threatened me and finally realized after many things he would do that did not make sense to me including cutting the wires in the house which i realized after his threat was intentional….the police came back and said to me that after they spoke to my ex husband that the matter was better dealt with in the family court system other than the criminal system…..and so i got served with court papers him wanting to change the custody and accusing me of all kinds of things i did not do….i told the children’s lawyer that obviously full custody was not settling the situation and if she had any suggestions i was glad to take them as his behaviour was impacting on the kids and not just me….since my submission to you and your recommendations, i was advised no communication with him and it has made a huge difference in my life….alhtough he keeps trying in covert ways….but for me this is a way to heal is not have contact with him….he uses the kids however as ways to get to me and i have to stop reacting when the kids come home and tell me things….as i just enable him….again and again…..i am learning slowly lol not fast enough for my situation there has been so much damage done…by his behaviour….i have been abandoned by some of my family, friends and even my eldest adult daughter….everyone i went to for help including my family doctor….they all believed him…he got to them before i even realized i was in trouble…my family doctor when i told her about how he had cut the wires in my home…..she just looked at me straight in the eyes, pulled her chair towards me and said…\’ you get along with him\’ she never believed me…i was shocked that the police chose to have his threat on my life and him cutting the wires in my home as a family court system problem not a criminal one….you do tend to feel alone when even systems that you go to for help dont get it……thanks again….as since your advice….my therapy is dealing with the ptsd….and working in dealing with the narcissit in my life….what i am learning is he falls under being a covert narcissist…..helene
Dear Christine: Thank you for your blog article and your descriptions of Narcissistic Victim Syndrome. Your article is the first, most accurate description of the abuse suffered by victims that I have found. My father abused me in every way you stated and openly said there was nothing wrong with him. You could write a book about what he did to me, starting at age 5! The effects were exceptionally harmful on me. Fortunately, I got help and have recovered to a large degree, but my therapist never really diagnosed my NPD father or my NVS. I found your article when I was trying to improve my professional career “potential.” I got a lot of help from Elenor Payson’s book, The Wizard of OZ and other narcissists. Your article “picked up” where Ms. Payson’s book left off. Thank you for your work in this area… you just don’t know how uplifting it was to read the descriptions of abuse and to find it is not my fault. If you ever need proof of your contentions, just give me a call.
CB
….and then they alienate your children from you. My children blame me for not being a better parent. How?! How do I get them to understand all of this. They are 20 and 23.
Hi Christine
Thank you for this information. I left the narcissist x 6 years ago. There are 2 children from the relationship that he uses as bait to feed his behaviour. A very messy divorce and property settlement, that he came out on top of ( I got less than 1/4 of the assets). It continues still, he fails to pay child support and paints me as the bad person whenever he chased for money. My major worry is always the children, who are both teenagers now, but now he using them. How do I protect them from him? As you have pointed out he paints me as the crazy, controlling one, and I still find it amazing that people believe him. I’m slowly rebuilding myself, finding a good job, and moving on. I’ve had a couple of relationships since, but always attract another narcissist, one day I hope that I will be willing to form another bond with someone.
Dear Stephanie, I am pleased to hear that you have managed to pull away from the narcissist in your life. It takes courage to do the recover work, but it can be a glorious journey back to oneself. You are doing the right things to aid your recovery. Understanding the narcissistic behaviour is like getting the lost parts of a jigsaw puzzle, suddenly the picture all comes together, and clarity follows. The trauma bonding is an intelligent defense mechanism, it served you well while you were unable to get away. Good luck with your therapy.
Hi Grant, Thank you for your kind words, actually I am the writer of everything that is on my site. It is insightful because I have made this journey as a victim myself, more than once I may add. I was born into it as an infant, and was subject to a narcissistic psychopathic brother, whom I absolutely loved, he was my hero. Of course, I confused love for trauma bonding. A lot of the time I was living in a war zone, never knowing when his loving winning way would turn to aggressive rage. He actually put three siblings into intensive care, I was one.
I am glad to hear that you are a survivor, but sorry you had to go through this very painful and demoralizing experience. You have managed to discover what you were dealing with, and although that is very upsetting, at least the truth will set you free…..in time. You should be proud of yourself for catching on so quick, many people never discover the term “NPD”, and they remain in state of confusion, thinking the situation must have been somehow all their fault. They have no idea of the gaslighting behaviour used, the love bombing that is followed by the devaluing, that they were the narcissistic supply that held the narcissists ego togehter, but cost them a high price. They spend half their life blaming themselves for the relationship failing.
But not you Grant. You understand what has happened, and you have survived……but part of survival is limping along for some time while you make sense of the madness, and allow yourself to heal up from the insidious abuse you have received. Forgiveness is something every victim needs to arrive at, forgiveness for self. Constantly I hear people saying, I don’t understand why I took so long to get out of the relationship, what was wrong with me, and what is wrong with me now that I still love them and would go back in a heart-beat if they said they would change. It is a normal reaction to feel confused, abandoned, betrayed, and bereft when you have lost someone that you loved, even when you did not love their behaviours. Without doubt, narcissists are infectious, charming, great company when they are getting the attention they want. Their “child-like” persona brings out our own playfulness, and we love that quality in them. Actually, they are children disguised as adults, and for that reason
we want to protect them, and forgive them quickly. They are attracted to us because we have empathy and compassion, we are most likely over responsible, and willing to please…… these qualities they do not have themselves, and they crave them.
I am glad that you are strong and I hope that you managed to continue to be successful in your career, despite what was done to you. To be successful is the greatest revenge you can have. If you give her any attention, negative or positive, then she still feels in power. To be successful does not require you to give her any attention, but your success will tap into her deep feelings of envy, which she will hate.
To be scared by the experience is healthy, it means that you know somewhere within yourself that something is wrong with the relationship the way it is. Most victims suffer from post traumatic stress after such an encounter, and it needs time to make a complete recovery. You may need to go into therapy for a while if you find that the recovery is taking too long.
What touches us changes us, and narcissistic abuse touches us at a deep level of our souls. You have to go through all the usual pain associated with loss (Denial and Isolation, Anger,Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance). But there are other losses to deal with also, the loss of trust, of respect for self, the fear of this happening again, the loss of our own innocence which leaves us cynical. In truth, all victims have one thing in common, their naivety. Victims give too much away without asking for something back, so they give more than they receive.
Narcissists usually pick people who have already been conditioned in the narcissistic dance, they are attracted to those individuals the way a moth is attracted to a flame. Can you trace back to your childhood to discover if you were victimized then, and if so, what did you have to do in order to stay safe? Children have unconscious defense mechanisms that click in whenever the child is feeling overwhelmed, and the child then adapts those defenses unknowingly. They become pleasers, they withdraw into their selves, become passive and compliant, overly responsible nice children…….. these mechanisms are good ways for keeping them safe when their surrounding are harsh. Unfortunately, these unconscious defense mechanisms are carried into adulthood, waiting to be exploited by other narcissists. And yes, all victims are similar in personality, good, kind people, who are overly responsible, and feel a need to care for others. These are all good qualities, and we don’t want to kill them off, but we need to be conscious as to when to use them, and not allow them to make us victims to abuse. We have to learn how to have healthy relationships that are reciprocal in their nature, where give and take are the basic of the relationship, rather than one taking, while the other gives.
Lovely to hear from you, please do not give up hope, get your revenge by being successful with your life. I write on my site in order to let people know that there is life after narcissistic abuse, in fact a far healthier one if you work on your own issues that mark you out for becoming a victim. It is common for victims to be re-victimized, but only if they have not discovered their own weakness.
Hi Sharada, Sorry to hear that your husband is narcissistic. It is great that you have worked out what has been going on in your relationship,
many victims never come across the term “Narcissism”, so they cannot work out what is happening to them. So very well done to you
that your research has led you to this discovery. No girl, I doubt that you are mad, just someone caught up in madness. Glad I have
been of some help to you. I understand fully what it means to get validation, it is like getting yourself back again. Just take
care as you get yourself educated in the subject, and don’t bother about educating your husband as to what is wrong with him, because
he will not take this on if he is a narcissist…… you are the problem, he is perfect. Warmest regards to you, and thank you for your kind words.
I am so sorry that my articles made you burst into tears. However, if your boyfriend is a narcissist, and you do seem to think so, then you may well be in a very abusive relationship. I don’t know if you are living with him, or have children together, but if not then you have serious decisions to make for your future.
It is a shock when you first find out that your loved one is a narcissist. Our tendency is to go into denial, to find excuses for their behaviour. We even convince ourselves that in some way we are to blame, “If only I did or did not do the things that upset him/her”. The truth is that the victim is not to blame for the narcissists personality disorder, something happened to him long before you came into his life to cause him to be the way he is. The problem now is that you have to endure his cruel abusive behaviour, which usually only gets worse with time. The longer you stay in this relationship the more and more he will erode your self-esteem and confidence, that is a fact.
Nobody can tell you what to do, that is something you must decide for yourself…… only you know your circumstances. You have made a good start, most people never find out that they are in a relationship with a narcissist, and those who do find out are often so damaged by years of abuse that they are left helpless and hopeless, unable to take action. I suggest that your first priority is to find a therapist to work with. Not all therapists understand narcissistic behaviour, but you can bring that information you have educated yourself with into the therapy room (the rages, lies, confusion, gaslighting, etc). I suggest that you find a therapist trained in “Trauma Work”, because they will understand what happens to the victim who is traumatised.
Keep educating yourself, go into the narcissistic Forums (Google Narcissistic Forums)and read what other people are saying and experiencing. You need to allow your story to become clearer to yourself even though this can be very painful and worrying, you need to know the extent of your boyfriends abuse towards you. Coming out of denial is a huge step on the journey back to recovery. You say you feel alone. If at all possible you need to connect back with friends and family, because you are going to need all the support you can get if you are to leave your boyfriend. You don’t have to tell them what is going on if you don’t want to, but just having friends and family at hand means that you are not alone. A therapist will help you through your confusion, pain and grief….BUT they will not advise you what to do (and they should not do that). The decision in the long run needs to be yours, because you are the one to live with the consequences of staying or going. But you need to clear your head and see how bad things really are before you can make the right decision for you.
I do not advise confronting your boyfriend about being “narcissistic”, it will not change things, but may make him try to keep you away from other people….. they like to isolate their victims, that way they have more control over them. I hope this gives you a starting point, but stay safe, observe his behaviour, and your own responses to his behaviour. Both will be useful to discuss with a therapist.
Hi Susie, You ask me how you can get this information across to your counsellor. Why not tell him the truth. You have been doing your own research in order to understand the work you are uncovering together, and you came across the word Narcissism. When you read the various articles it led you to wonder if this is what had happened to you.
Your counsellor may or may not know about narcissistic abuse, most counsellors don’t really know much about it. But that need not be a problem. Use the technical terms you are coming across (gaslighting, co-dependency, Jackall & Hyde personalities, etc). You could say that
you have articles written by a psychotherapist who works in this area, and share the information with him. Remember, he does not need to know how to work with a narcissist, when is needed is that he understands the debth of abuse and suffering you have gone through with your narcissist.
It is important for you to discover the things that you did that attracted your nar