Can Narcissism Affect Women?
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) affects both males and females alike, it is a fallacy to think that narcissistic traits belong only to the male population of society. Such an error in thinking is dangerous in that it denies the harm that women can do to their victims; female narcissists render their victims to just as much pain, humiliation, chaos and destruction as that wielded out by their male counterparts.
American statistics would show that more men present with narcissistic traits then women, however the most up-to-date research also shows that there is a marked shift in the numbers of women presenting with narcissistic behaviors. In my own practice, working with victims of narcissistic abuse, I have found the ratio of male and female narcissistic abuse to be more in the region of about 50/50. What I have also found when listening to the victims is that narcissistic men and narcissistic women often employ different behaviours in order to achieve the same aim.
What is the cause of narcissism?
According to most experts, narcissism would seem to be related to a failure in empathic responding, usually by a mother, towards her child, and this seems to result equally in both males and females developing a deficient internalized structure of self as adults, which is acted out in different ways of behaviour (which seem to be related to gender differences).
What causes gender differences between male and female narcissistic behaviour?
I suspect that the reason for the difference between male and female behaviours may well be related to social structuring between the genders, and this creates a need for male and female narcissists to develop different psychological strategies to compensate for their deficiencies. For example, social western norms tend to accept dominance in males as “macho”, and therefore very acceptable, while dominance in female behaviour is decisively regarded as a “no no”, and therefore unacceptable by society at large. For that reason, narcissistic females (when in the public eye) are inclined to conform to the pressures of social constraints. Society likes to think that all women are sweet, caring, kind, nurturing good-mother’s etc, unfortunately they are not, at least not when they suffer from a narcissistic personality disorder. For that reason I believe that narcissistic women are more likely to behave in a more subtle and indirect fashion than male narcissists do because society expect them to be “nice”, and they conform to cultural stereotypes, gender roles and social expectations. For that reason alone they are less likely to be recognized as narcissists by society at large. In short, you could say that females are forced to hide their less appealing narcissistic aspects because of gender expectations within society.
Are male narcissists more aggressive than female narcissists?
It is a common misperception that male narcissists are more aggressive in general than female narcissists. In fact, both sexes are equally narcissistically aggressive, but it is displayed differently. From a descriptive analyses approach, the male narcissist is seen to be “overtly aggressive”. That means that he acts out physically violent interactions, (such as hitting, yelling, threatening body shaping etc), whereas, the female narcissists are more likely to use “relational aggression” (RA). Distinct from male physical aggression (where acts are meant to harm another person’s physical well being), female relational aggression is a covert means of harming others through damage of social relationships. This is likely to be acted out through emotional violence, (i.e. manipulation, threats, purposefully silent treatment, spreading rumors, telling others not to engage with someone, talking about their victims to others etc). This behaviour harms others through damage (or the threat of damage) to relationships or feelings of acceptance, friendship or group inclusion.
This subtle art of emotional devastation is acted out every day by narcissistic women everywhere. Regardless of whether it is in the home, the workplace, or in community settings, this bullying behavior pervades all of the female narcissist’s relationships. This type of aggression uses the threat of social isolation to hurt the victim, and its advantage resides in the value the victim places on belonging to a family, school, workplace or other group. As the female narcissist have no corresponding fear of social isolation, they do not value relationships, and therefore perceive themselves as having nothing to lose one way or the other.
Another factor that helps to keep narcissistic females off the radar is the fact that their victims (both male and female) are more likely to remain silent about female relational aggression then they would be about male physical aggression. Male overt physical aggression has the advantage of being better understood by everybody, and instantly recognizable to the victim (and observers), whereas covert relational aggression is often very hard to identify or explain. Often the victim is at a loss to identify the psychological abuse that they are experiencing. The female narcissist is also very clever not to show her rage to witnesses, however when she gets her victim alone she will become absolutely malevolent.
Having said that however, when it comes to narcissism generally, both males and females are Dr. Jekyll’s and Mr(s) Hyde’s, and both are equally emotionally abusive and treat others as a means to an end. I for one would welcome further research on female narcissistic relational aggression, and have it entered into the DSM V in order to simplify a diagnostic criterion.
In a nut shell 21 years ago i married a woman i met in church , 8 weeks after we married she told me she had been in prison for killing her ex boyfriend’s wife by strangling her ,after years of narc abuse and 2 children later i escaped her only after being poisoned slowly. Which gave me cancer and had to have a liver transplant to save my life. i didn’t know what had happened to me. I have seen my 2 girls every Saturday for 10 yrs up until last september and watched slowly as they have become her. they speak to me with hatred its heart breaking,she has flipped everything around on to me,the girls never knew about her past but in anger i told the eldest girl and found a clipping off the internet to show her with her mum’s name on and she went berserk and has cut me off, i have new wife now and had a 2yr old daughter who died of cancer and the narc turned up at the funeral. Its not over yet i want to write a book but need a ghost writer , that will shut her up because no one in her world knows about her because it all happened in another part of the country, So yes women can be narcs this ones the full russian doll. iv done a Hares scale on her and she scores a 35 thanks christine for three faces of evil and your work its opened my eyes….. true story Regards Mark
Hello, I am a bit late to this conversation to say the least! But I came across this so others will likely follow. My God! I never knew or suspected my wife of twenty years was a Narcissist. Then one evening completely out of the blue BANG I have had enough and I want to be on my own she said. That is where it started and it just got worse,I caught her out in her lies,deceit,then I got the RAGE! Wow never ever seen that side of her before, she treated me with utter contempt gas lighted me projected on me.Nightmare can’t tell you how bad it was, even suicidal thoughts! Me? I now realise I gave everything in the marriage and she gave nothing in fact all she did was take take take, she found a brand new supply and I was no longer needed. Looking back I did start to question some of her beliefs(conspiracy theories mainly)and I think it may have started there.These people are not Human if you ask me, having no empathy,compassion,not suffering guilt or shame,never ever wrong how can they be human.Anyway nearly a year on I am so much better now but it has taken a long time and a lot of effort and research and reading books and online, so glad I have done these things as it has saved me truly.These people are wicked and need exposing but sadly their new targets get hoodwinked the same as we did and on it goes.Good luck and do not give up!Do not give these vile people the satisfaction so be strong, hide your struggling from them they only enjoy that,work on yourself get fit eat well don’t drink too much!! xxx
Hi Kurt, you left this post a while ago, but YES, you’re not alone in having somebody treat you like that. My ex-wife of 10 years ago STILL treats me like that any chance she gets. That’s typical of this sickness and it’s more and more common. You may feel like you’re the guilty party because that’s her intent, but you’ll have to find your own ground that you refuse to move from. Once you have that you won’t feel the need to be aggressive back, you’ll just be able to calmly see her behaviour from you protected “island” for what it is. All the best!
Steve
About the asymmetry between male and female, I suspect another explanation. The inverse of yours, in fact. Social expectations allows females to behave in narcissist ways. They are the one who expect all eyes to turn toward them when they enter a room, wearing colored flashy fancy clothings, while the male wears denim or dark boring pants ans shirt. They are the ones wearing gold and diamond jewelry, etc. They are the one expecting the male to attends to their emotional needs, expects special favors (”women and children first”). They are the ones who expect the male to pick up the tab, at the restaurent, etc.
So, a woman who behaves in a narcissist way is just within social norms, whereas the male will automatically be detected and identified.
It is not that there is more abundant or more severe male narcissists, it is just that they are more visible
I had a narc mother that did to me everything in the book including moving me into her room from 7Th to 10Th grade until I was put into an orphanage. I did get my room back is all I really remember. Out of high school barely passing and off to college only to fall victim to a good narc, cold, scary but, I did not know fear even as a word. She was a deadly awful plotting wife. I did not know I thought this is what it is. I did not even know that word for my feeling it or I just was. With wife plotting her attacks and I grew numb until I was finally in with a psychoanalyst two to three hours up to three times a week for a year and a half…. One grows to think this is normal and also a sex slave to a woman also normal. Today my behavior still attracts woman wanting me to take care of them so I stay single.
The following statement from he article is a little off. But it only my opinion based on the experience and later review of my ex’s behavior.
“factor that helps to keep narcissistic females off the radar is the fact that their victims (both male and female) are more likely to remain silent about female relational aggression”
It should be noted that some victims out there do not know about this or that it is even a thing. I never had heard the term “relational aggression”, till I read this article. It fits what I dealt with but did not know until after and much research.
Manny… Good thought… Thank you.
It’s not only the women of ‘today’ that are narcissistic. My mother who is 90 is… Her mother had a family of 9, So her mother never showed empathy towards her. She has tried since I was born to make me her victim… i won’t fall prey… Sadly, I do have empathy… She just broke her hip… i am the only one in our ‘family’ who lives by her or wants to care for her (I have two brothers… I believe the oldest is a narcissist and the youngest may be… that are rarely around and are distant mentally and physically…). After decades of trying to ‘fit’ in, I’ve been demeaned by them and left to deal with ‘our’ mother… It has all made me sick inside… But, no choice to accept this and live the rest of my life as best I can.
I’ve been living with narcissistic abuse from my wife of 33 years. But it’s only been the last 18 to 20 years that I can pin point to Narcissism. Most of her friends think she is the greatest woman around. Only a hand full know that she has issues. I’ve even been told by one of her good friends that she went to school with that I need to stop putting up with her and leave, because she can see how living with her has changed me and not for the good. My wife too will take something that someone has said in a positive way and turn it into a negative. An example, my brother and his wife came for a visit and the subject of how did we meet and the one question that is almost always asked ‘what attracted you to him’. So months later she was mad at me for some little thing and went into a narcissistic abuse frenzy, and brought up that question. But she turned it around like at the time it was asked my wife said they were talking about what an ass I am. The thing is my wife forgot I was sitting there for that conversation. From my experience in dealing with someone with narcissism they love to make them selves feel superior so they constantly look for ways to put you down change things around to make you look like the bad guy. The one thing that fascinates me is when she gets into one of her narcissistic abuse frenzies and I’ve had enough and instead of walking away but yell back at her, she all of a sudden will look at me with a VERY calm expression and say ‘What’s wrong why are you yelling? I haven’t done anything wrong. You have anger issues.’ All this and more after she’s been verbally abusive to me for hours. Has anyone else have this happen to them?
Same thing happened to me. I think female narcissists are worse because their abuse is so sly and so insidious you don’t even realize it’s happening until it’s too late. Then you look back at the times you shared and see the way she manipulated you and you basically thanked her for it, all the while you were losing all sense of yourself. People need to be made more aware of the fact that female narcissists exist. Even my husband told me I was being too sensitive and creating drama until he saw it first hand one day. Other friends would see they don’t see it and that I just needed to let it go. I’ve finally gone no contact which has limited me in that I can’t attend some of the groups I used to enjoy and I have to avoid certain places that she frequents, but in the end I’m happier.
If you question it, you are not a narcissist.
6+ weeks. (Since my final discard)
I know all the facts. I know I should just suck it up and move on. Each day gets a little better. But it still hurts so much. Red flags from the beginning. She left a marriage for me. I knew her husband (not well) but I was independently friends with both of them over 10 years, so I wasn’t shocked that they didn’t work out. her husband had money and the worst personality. But what I didn’t know was near the end of them that she was turning to social media and targeting me as new supply/target to leave the marriage. I was so strong in our relationship I actually got sick of her insulting her ex husband (actually still not divorced ;3 years separated) I stood up for him at one point in my relationship with her and I was like, “that’s enough. I don’t believe you about him. It’s too much” on and on about how awful he was. Again I was strong. I ignored the California guy (a different guy) that would call her in the middle of the night because I felt confident. She wouldn’t pick up when I was with her and I was proud I believed she loved only me. She and California guy actually had tried to make it work years before she married but it failed within weeks. He remains her impossible “one that got away” idealization. I discovered She has emotional affairs with him when she needs it. I had a book launch that was all about me: friends, family, art ,music, fun. And she created a controversy that evening about me “groping” my other female friend’s bottom. Didn’t happen. But she used it as an excuse to call the California guy in her car on the way home from the book launch to “end it forever”. Who calls to end it forever?! And she only admitted this to me because I felt something and asked when she finally arrived home. I always had premonitions to her betrayal. I was reluctant for a very long time in our relationship and thank god. I know now that nacs/cluster bs don’t like you to be too easy of supply nor too impossible of supply and I stayed safe and confident in the middle. I loved her very much. I was incredibly happy. I knew I wanted to marry her after a few short weeks (again I had known her nearly 10 years prior. We kissed in the early days years ago but never dated she married the guy and I dated her friend it was a long star crossed love) in my mind and in my heart we had a beautiful romantic story ending up together. She was in a marriage with a guy that wouldn’t last and I had dating her friend I knew that was going no where. My female narc and I loved each other for years I thought. And again, once in a relationship with her, I got “lucky”. I was “in control” of my relationship with her. Not that I was cruel. I only wanted to be happy and laugh and eat well and go to galas and comedy shows and films and dog parks. And we did all that. I had never been so happy in my life. Her family was always cold to me. I assumed it was because they were still in shock about the marriage or not speaking up about her former husband, that is seeing that it was a bad match. I believed in love. I thought they were reluctant with me because I was new. And I’m was a young man stepping into this recently divorced woman’s life with her 2 year old son. What I have come to realize is they are culpable and they help her hurt and discard. She’s the golden child. They come from money and they just throw money at problems and make things go away. She has horrible issues with her mother and family abuse (sexual) and physical issues and weight issues and all sorts. She lied at parties or social events. Her friends (she had only 2 I could see regularly. Where i had many many friends different walks of life different lifestyles different parties) her friends were sick of her and rolled their eyes at some of her old stories. Lies about being tough. Beating up: skin heads herself, fending off police officers herself, fighting large women herself. Just how amazing she was. She didn’t listen. she waited to talk. But I still accepted her. And that’s what hurts. Whatever I did to mess it up?! She kept increasing behavior that made me nervous and uncomfortable. This behavior was Sexually social. Nothing major but it was increasing in severity. And I was getting uneasy and maybe got a little impatient and cold by the 5th or 6th offense. We never fought except for those weird party sexual mistakes or flirting mistakes she’d make. I knew the end was coming when she took back to the Internet. Facebook and Instagram became her ego boosts. Nearly nude photos of herself in bikinis replaced Buddhist quotes and pictures of her son. It was all about her now. And I could feel it. I knew I was on the way out. That was about March 1st. We split. I felt it coming I was at the gym and noticed her talking online with men and women she allegedly hated. I texted, “pack my things” she did. My gut was to walk away, But as it became real. I told her I didn’t want to stop the relationship. I didn’t. I wanted to marry her. Go back to the ideal. But now I know what was impossible. Over the 2 months split. I think California dude flew in and hooked up with her. I also, now paranoid, believe she hooked up with a friend that has acted crazy weird since we have split. And would be one of the only people I know that would betray me in that way. I had a place but moved in with my mom one town over to not drink, stay sober, not date other girls. I was trying to show my dedication to her while she fed me crumbs of attention and did God knows what. One day we were slightly talking and she kind of agreed to therapy. I set it up. She canceled on the day of so I couldn’t get a refund. Of course. Then I went nc on her. She hoovered my back 2 weeks later. Literally not talking or explaining even what our break up was about. Isn’t that insane?!? I still don’t know what the break up was about. Because she wouldn’t talk to me like a person. The Hoover lasted 2 weeks or so (this included my birthday. Jesus the birthday card is nothing but clues about leaving me) . I was having nightmares and I know I wasn’t going to stay. Everything in her life was new and she was letting me back in to see how happy she was going to be. Final discard was over nothing. We had a “fight” more of a frustrated conversation that she manufactred in order to break us up. I literally told her “I can’t say anything. If I stand up for myself it will go bad and if I lie down and take this it will hurt me”. I being a human apologized that night and the following day for being emotionally drained. It was ok overall but I felt the end near. We were still talking and texting ‘sweet dreams’ ‘I miss you’. But it was just enough to keep me on the hook. That Friday (two days later) she slept with someone else and spent the entire day with him Saturday. I didn’t know this until her friends called me and told me. “You’re a good guy. She does this. You deserve to know”. Sunday I still had no idea about the other guy and that she was done. I texted her and told her I loved her and I believed in us. She said “I can’t” “I’m spent” “it isn’t good” “we aren’t compatible”
I called panicked and she picked up to hear my sorrow. I didn’t have the time to say what I wanted but I told her I also felt like I needed an apology from her. She said, “I don’t owe you an apology for even one microscopic thing” she was sleeping with someone else while texting me sweet dreams.?!? She told me we would speak in person later that week and we never did. She threw my remaining items from her place on my moms lawn in the middle of the night. She texted ” I tried again because I love you. it’s done the things are on your moms lawn. You deserve better. I wish you love”
So she vanished and we haven’t talked in 6 weeks. It’s hurts. That’s all. The best love I have ever known was make believe. I believe in the magic of love more than the existence of God and for these people to use love for cruelty is nothing I could have ever imagined. I miss her son and I feel so sorry he’s going to see a new “uncle daddy” every year and a half forever. I loved him like a son.
I was discarded by a female narcissists who acted as if they cared about my feelings. She didn’t accuse me of being a narcissist, but she implied I was and acted as if she were the victim despite being the one who attacked me and blocked me from all her social media. She staged the attack to be on a day that was very personally important to me.
I am a female myself and this was a “friend”.
One troubling thing I learned when dealing with female narcissists is that other women were skeptical of the threat of female narcissists. Even now they tell me “just let it go”. I am working on that, but it doesn’t help when women so casually disregard the existence of something.
If it’s a male narcissists they’re all over that. But if you bring up female narcissists you get a collective yawn.
The worse part I found is that the female narcissists I dealt with was good at hiding her behavior in social media.
Slowly, it gets better and the pain gets more distance. However, I really wish women wouldn’t act like female narcissism is not that big of a concern compared to male narcissism. From what I saw female narcissists are worse because they’re tools are cloaked better and they know how to cry when needed.
It felt like women just want to avoid the issue and by acting like a female narcissist isn’t a big deal, they can sidestep the matter.
Has anyone out there been discarded by a female narcissist who previously acted as if all they cared about was your feelings and then thrown out like your feelings were nothing, and then accused you of being a narcissist yourself? I am researching narcissism because she accused me of being one, to see if I am one, and finding more characteristics of her than of me.
Oh boy, when you compare the women of today to the Good old fashioned women of years ago which Most of them were the Best of all. And now there are so many women today that are Narcissists, and such a Change over the years. Wow.
I have spent hundreds of hours reading up on female narcissists after suffering abuse from a narcissistic female. I can honestly say this is the best page I have ever written about it and describes the woman’s behavior in a way that shows absolute expertise and accuracy of information provided by the author of this article. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with the public and I would consider the author of this page to be the leading expert on female narcissism that I have experienced during my extensive research.
Unbelievable! Can Narcissism Affect Women? Are you serious? Is no one paying attention. All you have to do is walk through a mall or browse any social media sight to be bombarded with cleavage pics and you can see that women are leading the way in this. It is hard to find a women to have a conversation with who isn’t rude or self serving.
Recall we, “victims” have our own flaws as well. After being almost destroyed emotionally by whom I’d rather call, “the cute lil narcissist”, I researched after continuing therapy alone. She ran away as soon as liability pointed her way in that counseling session. We might be served well (as I am) to add that any and all imperfections us victims own will be shoved down our throats or up our asses as theses flaws are not only supported but depended upon, accelerated, promoted and nicely displayed for our public to judge us as the screwed up one. My X needs this, she lives on it and its hellishly sad to admit, with my extroverted, loud or public demeanor. I love people and attention too, as to our NPD buddies, but I want nothing for free; I just love kidding, kibitzing and messing with folks. Under fair control before her, boundaries have became a problem for this victim. Possibly this was to rebuild my crew of close buddies whom are now mostly distant (in miles).
So imagine how easy it is for her to point fingers at me. With my lack of family ties and need for various intimacy, i.e. my lover, family, buddies, etc I feel like the ultimate bate for any sweet, pretty, sexy, naturally smiling woman who can speak softly, but carries a Babe Ruth stick. In baseball she really hit me out of [my] park. Us super-hyper folks can also be quite oblivious as well (see “unfocused”)…
Its still hard for even me to believe I got trapped by my X wife. SUMMARY: I was truly a street kid, left my dysfunctional immediate family at 14. I’m 53 now. Hyperactive (currently called ADHD), acting out I got in trouble, was institutionalized but learned fast, well and put my young act together. I Graduated that reform-school with an art scholarship (The School of Visual Arts, NYC). Deciding against art I got some government aid plus worked jobs and paid for engineering, graduated earning academic scholarships, went on to computer systems (1981-85). By the time I graduated college, I owned a decent business I still own today (notwithstanding losses from confused mistakes)… To say I’m street smart with academic, business and well-traveled experience is an understatement.
What flaws I owned were controlled well up till 35 years when she trapped me. My biggest flaw may be my most beautiful side. That was, is, will always be my insatiable desire for family. To be involved in one and especially to have my own. Other flaws, related to hyperactivity were and still are what she uses to appear as I am the villain. This took me 16 years to uncover, as she ran (physically) from marriage counseling while I continued solo. She believes, portrays, whines and cries how, “He ruined everything” as she purposely attempts to inflame my emotions. This was mostly my temper, mainly verbal outbursts which before we met was mostly jovial forms of sarcasm. Oh I can absolutely piss those off who cross me but before the demon opened my previously healed wounds, by 35 this rarely occurred. But a flaw it was, that I lived by a (my) saying, “You scratch me, I punch you, you punch me? I kill you!”… To clarify I never seriously hurt anyone and actually am quite loving and peaceful. I don’t “start” any conflicts. But when crossed unfairly I loved “finishing” as I learned to in the street. Just a childish power trip I guess but I’ve been in some good yelling matches that I must finish with last words of sharp sarcasm, usually very silly so that witnesses & I can laugh. Some fistfights too, these so far ended with me standing and him out cold or taken away in hand cuffs. At the end I always wish to apologize but none believe I never meant harm; I’m just hypersensitive to mistreatment.
So yup, being a little nutty l myself can you imagine what a perfect piece of raw meat I was
(still am) for the “cute lil narcissist”?
Not ready for marriage at 35 she stopped her birth control unannounced to me. Upon returning from a great trip with my friends she had special gifts for my birthday (because I was gone that day). These were from her “family”… In my bedroom, after I was enthralled I’ll never forget her words, “Jules, I want you to meet my family…” Serious loving sex followed, and for days I was under assumption she was protected, as agreed, on birth control pills. Yes I did love her, as I assume she loved me, for practical purposes of the NP-Demon. Many other similar actions, as one mentioned below are too detailed for this here. But 16 years later this funny, silly, hyper, endearing and complex man with some hard-core experience came to realize the worst flaw she supported(s) and (still) targeted(s): Oblivion!
From what I’ve studied, seemingly loss of memory is usual in us victims of NPD, correct? OK, add that to ADHD and my oblivious nature is exasperated. So along with my flaws, intimate desires and longing for family she appeared filled with but never provided, I’d second-guessed myself into a nightmare. This bad but live dream can be summarized as waking up after a near death motorcycle accident to a family (hers) that, as that first marriage counselor who detected her NPD said, “could not love me”. Hit by a car with nephew on the back seat I was blamed 100% by the X (then my wife) and an older sister I later coined, “The Lead Narc”.
As of now she has succeeded in dismantling this self-made man. But the big difference of before, during and after is that after, includes my recent study on NPD displayed by darling people as yourselves. Now my fight includes not only the rescue of my innocent, albeit easily misunderstood self. Educating my children, somehow without hurting them against their mommy’s wedges to separate them from me, against her moans of pain “due to me” are almost impossible. Her leveraging her new ASAP husband & remnants of her family I’d wish to remain friendly with are likely a lost cause. To remain quiet and “just love” is either too risky or just can’t work with her almost inborn talents. So I while those around her whom are less connected to me matter much less, I won’t give up on my children as I can’t. What father can?
So unless any of you who have more experience, intellect and/or education than me might provide some better strategy or some livable alternative, I believe she actually still needs to target me. My son is 17 and lives with me. My daughter is 14, lives with her and new husband. So my plan is as follows:
1- Keep her out of my life at all times or whenever possible, never communicating anything to her.
2- On anything which she may have interest in, never allow her to know my intention if possible.
3- If necessary pitch a curve ball to throw her off any scent of what I want or hope for. Without contact this must be through rumor if possible.
4- While remaining uninvolved or minimally, keep my antenna up to snag her attempts at hurting me, not caring about my kids or others relevant to her. Keep tabs, keep notes and allow her own errors to flourish.
5- Block or contort anything she does that may be seen as good unless that hurts someone.
Gee that sounds quite narcissistic doesn’t it? Its a lot of calculation but after recovering fairly and rebuilding from a great fall I took, this much previous oblivion was replaced with suspicion. Most assumptions were on target so far. My kids have heard the NPD word enough times although I detest saying this she hurts us all!
Please find patience for this minimal but telling example of the “cute lil narcissist”. This is a mother that knows her 14 year old girl needs her dad. (During separation) dad buys hair products, and other sundries to make it comfortable to stay over dads house.
Mom steals these items from me. At the time I told her if she must steal, to at least leave some but according to her I was crazy to accuse her of this. Many other items were taken along with big corporate funds that, at the time I did nothing about, Why? Because at that time we weren’t yet divorced and I’d be putting my children’s mom in jail.
The kids learned since mom & dad were trespassed from each others house. The other day she stole a new bottle of wine from my house. My son learned and knows for example. Why? Because I asked him if any of his friends may have taken it. He immediately called his mom (I never told him to) to get the truth out of her; he pretended I wasn’t there, that I’d blame him, etc until she admitted she’d replace it. Why’d she take the wine? She married a nice man with a steady career, with a house, etc. She works a menial job and by now knows extremely well not to enter without my permission. She might have “forgotten” all her thefts; i.e. too perfect to do that, yet to any victim we know that in some damned, sick way she must know not to just take or even be there. This theft was to hurt me, hurt my relation with my son, her new husband who I like (and feel quite sorry for), my daughter; anyone who might witness me getting upset… I didn’t get angry at all. In fact I deeply I feel sorry for us all but I cannot find sympathy for her; I’d like to but she is the demon and she apparently needs my misery to live on.
I called police, made criminal complaint, I won’t drop charges.
Our kids love their mom but know, consciously (via my need to point out facts) but mostly subconsciously that mommy cannot attend to their truest emotional needs. Maybe its best said, they, “need to” love their mom. This is why they resent any logical facts from dad as to her condition and what it did to us all. Therapists tell me to say nothing but its been impossible for me.
Regardless of my education in life, now about 19 years including separation, this has played the roll of demon upon me in that even I’ve made impulsive mistakes that’d cost me much more than money. These mistakes, from a man with such energy as mine, if I’d repeated them here are barely believable, my fellow victims and students. In plane English I can’t believe I was capable of achieving such stupid-looking behaviors. How do I know they were reactions to confusions due to loving a wife with NPD? Simple: This intensely failing behavior never happened before 35 years old; before I met her and fell in love with her.
OK does anyone have any advice?
Hi Christine,
I find this article to be very apt. I am a survivor of multiple relationships with narcissistic women, starting with my own mother. I have written quite a bit about my experiences in my blog, which can be found at http://thenarcissistsson.wordpress.com/.
I agree, the split in male / female narcissists is closer to 50/50, and you’re right, the female narcissist behaves in a much more covert fashion than the typical male narcissist, making her more difficult to spot. She has many tools in her toolbox that when coupled with a little female charm, are highly effective. I also think women get more of a pass on some behaviors than men do. Women are permitted to be “crazy”, and some even like to think of themselves that way. A hysterical, raging woman is often seen as ‘normal’ because that’s “just how women can be sometimes” or it’s because of “hormones”. A narcissistic female will utilize these female traits as identified by societal stereotypes as an excuse for abuse. She can’t control it after all, because it’s part of being a woman, and you as a man would never understand.
I like to think of it like this: Most people that are narcissists are from a highly dysfunctional family system, and that narcissism is passed down from generation to generation. If the typical split of male and female children is 50/50, it’s understandable that half of the children exposed to this dysfunctional upbringing will be girls and half will be boys. Grant it, not all children of narcissists go on to be narcissists (I’ve read a stat of around 30% eventually become narcissists), but it’s not unreasonable to expect that the split of children of narcissists that go on to become narcissists is closer to 50/50 male / female, given the typical family system.
I also agree that men are told by society that their needs don’t matter, and often put up with behavior that should never be tolerated, making outing the female narcissist more difficult. There is essentially zero support for male victims of abuse, and for a man to admit that they’ve suffered abuse at the hands of a woman means that that man is ‘weak’ or ‘over sensitive’ and he needs to ‘suck it up, buttercup’. Even in the media, abuse is almost always portrayed as male on female. A woman can slap a man on a TV show and it’s funny. If a man was to slap a woman on a TV show, it would be incendiary. This mindset is promulgated from a very early age, where boys are told that “men don’t cry” and that a woman’s emotions trump a man’s emotions in all cases and that “men don’t have feelings”. Erratic emotional behavior is tolerated from a female child much more readily than it is from a male child in most homes. A teenage boy that is having a meltdown is a ‘baby’ while a teenage girl that is having a meltdown is just a ‘teenage girl’. It’s not just the boys that get this message. It’s also the girls. They are taught that their emotions are more important and that men don’t have feelings, making it much easier for them to justify their egregious emotional behavior later in life to themselves and to their partners.
I know that I grew up believing all women were emotional whirlwinds and that I just had to deal with it somehow. This was the approach I had to take with my narcissistic mother. She trained me well to take abuse, and I was narc bait for the next 2+ decades after leaving home. I still believed that my needs were irrelevant and that it was my job to attend to the emotional needs of my partner, no matter how ridiculous those needs might be. It’s led me to 3 failed significant relationships (2 divorces) in my life with women with Cluster B issues.
Stephen Bach
Hi Peter, Your story is sad, and I fully understand the hurt and disgust your are feeling for this lady. Only a person that has been through this form of abuse would believe you….. and you are right, men feel shame at admitting that a woman can do this damage to them. One of the reasons women get away with so much is because, like you, most people think they are not capable of this pathological abuse. The stereo typical image of women is that they are beautiful delicate butterflies. However just as there are poisonous butterflies (such as the Monarch and Pipevine Swallowtail), so too are there poisonous narcissistic women. And just in case you did not realize it, women narcissists also target women and do a great deal of harm to them also. We women who have been targeted by a narcissistic woman also feel equally as shamed at being a target and being victimized in this manner. The truth is that anybody that has anything that they want will be targeted by them, man or woman is no deterrent. Of course you were having an intimate romantic relationship with this lady (or so you were led to believe), and the betrayal is huge. However, just as birds learn how not to eat the poisonous butterflies, we too can learn to recognize these poisonous pathological personalities and give them a wide birth. No doubt you are a wiser man now, but it is a hard lesson to learn. Warmest regards.Christine
Hi Peter,
Your story is sad, and I fully understand the hurt and disgust your are feeling for this lady. Only a person that has been through this form of abuse would believe you….. and you are right, men feel shame at admitting that a woman can do this damage to them. One of the reasons women get away with so much is because, like you, most people think they are not capable of this pathological abuse. The stereo typical image of women is that they are beautiful delicate butterflies. However just as there are poisonous butterflies (such as the Monarch and Pipevine Swallowtail), so too are there poisonous narcissistic women. And just in case you did not realize it, women narcissists also target women and do a great deal of harm to them also. We women who have been targeted by a narcissistic woman also feel equally as shamed at being a target and being victimized in this manner. The truth is that anybody that has anything that they want will be targeted by them, man or woman is no deterrent. Of course you were having an intimate romantic relationship with this lady (or so you were led to believe), and the betrayal is huge. However, just as birds learn how not to eat the poisonous butterflies, we too can learn to recognize these poisonous pathological personalities and give them a wide birth. No doubt you are a wiser man now, but it is a hard lesson to learn. Warmest regards. Christine
Reading these posts I became very frightened. I was married to a female narcissist and she was everything the article and posts describe. We were both pilots together at an aircraft factory. She absolutely betrayed me during our engagement and sinve, from age 28 on, I was determined not to be a narcissist myself and deliberately dropped my guard. Then as would be predictable I let the wrong one in.
When she sees something she wants she goes for it like a bowling ball and her bowling pin was me. Narcissists don’t have morality like others. She showed no morality and had no filter. Huge impulse control problems. The cancer she planted was insurmountable. She after promising explicitly not to went for my old job once I vacated it. Yes, the self centered creature did that and she denied it when I caught her in a lie. The aircraft will reveal all. Insanity, competence, bullshit, everything and all it showed with her was a psychologically weak pilot. But she was made not born. They all are.
The point about men not wanting to seem weak is so true. I didn’t say anything about it because I knew it would go around the factory like wild fire and it did. But I quickly realized she couldn’t touch me. Two executives had been my flight students and I’d done great things for the company. All I wanted was respect and I had it and even her trickiness couldn’t get me. But the idea of indirect aggressionis so true. She’s very pretty but ugly as a mud fence to me. But the sexual demandingness. I’m your wife. I deserve to get serviced. You should maybe make me want you. I’m hot. On the outside. Not inside? You can answer that one yourself. Guys, beware. She might try to get you to assault her but don’t do it. You hit a girl. Not you hit an aggressor. They are always perfect looking but sinister inside.
And the mother daughter relationship idea is spoton. Her body image was jacked at an early age and when I saw her naked for the first time she scares me. A stick. Serious anorexia. Her ruthless self image is frail as a flower but she’s sneaky and a cheater abd is messing with our son. Get a good lawyer boys. Family court is brutal and I never so much as touched her but she punched me in the chest to get me to. It’s so odd that someone so pretty can be so sinister. A former coworker who had his ex do similar things and is divorceed from her laughingly agreed when I commented that usually it’s the guy who’s the aggressor but what I just read makes it clear that women are narcissists almost as much as men. Scary.
Hi Cliff, Sound as if you have had a horrendous time with you wife, and now sadly it is ending in divorce. I cannot say for sure that she is
narcissistic, but the hallmarks are surely there.
You say that you are working on yourself at present, and that is good. Narcissists are attracted to kind, passive, types, the kind we call
“pleasers”. You may need to look at those aspects of yourself, because in some ways you have been conditioned in the “dance”, and other
narcissists do instinctively pick up on this. You may also need to look at your boundaries, and strengthen them. Sometimes this is easier to do
with a therapist, because we all have blind spots we don’t recognize in ourselves, a therapist will shine a light on yours with you and help you
change them. That way you will not appear quite so attractive to this type of personality type in the future. Do more research, make yourself
familiar with their behaviour….. once you have this information you will be able to avoid them…..or at least not allow them to hook you in with
their seduction and charm.
When you come out of this form of relationship, most victims are left obsessing …… their last thought at night, their first thought in the morning. The reason is that they are trying to make sense of what is a senseless situation. You are ahead of the posse in that you have stumbled across the worst “narcissism”, most people don’t manage to find that out, so they stay lost. Information is the key to making sense of what happened to you, although not nice to have to admit that “you have been had”, it is the truth that will set you free….eventually. In the meantime, go easy on yourself.
I am in the process of divorcing my wife. I believe her to have many of the qualities that are described in the traits of a narcissist. When I first met her she was completely engrossed into me and gravitated to all my likes and dislikes. She was pretty and very likeable. I thought i had met my soul mate. The fact that she had already been divorced once (she was 25 at the time) did not bother me since she had told me he was a serial cheater and alcoholic. Things were magical for about 3-3.5 years. There were small signs of things to come looking back, but the haze of love blinded me to these.We eventually got married, and I had lost my job around this time. Granted, I took it hard, the idea of my wife getting up every morning and going to work while i was forced to collect unemployment and go back to school.Point being,I did fall into a bit of a depression and when I needed her most she just discarded me like a used piece of chewing gum. She always had guy “friends” at her work and always said she got along better w guys than girls. Well,pretty much within months of tying the knot, she became cold, distant, and generally unpleasant. I knew something was wrong, my gut was telling me so, but I figured between school and work (once i went back to school she felt she had to too)she was just frazzled. My mom, unbeknownst to me at the time, was having the same feelings and confronted my ex wife. My mom said her attitude was just “not right” and that she was on her cell phone constantly. Needless to say my mom told her if she wasn’t happy w me to get out and that the grass isn’t greener on the other side. Well, when my wife confronted me w this incident, at my cousins wedding no less, she spun it that my mom had told her to leave and that the grass Was greener. In other words, she distorted and lied about what my mom had said to her. TO make a long story shorter, eventually the evidence began to mount. I confronted several times and asked her if there was someone else and if there is anything i should have to worry about. Each time it was “no worries”. Well, my instincts were just screaming out to me, and one night after she went to bed i checked her cell phone and found these inappropriate texts to her boss (who has a wife and kid btw). One had this exchange where she confided she missed him and another for her to make plans to see him while i was at work (i worked in the evening back then). I confronted her, and of course, being caught off guard she was apologetic etc. We talked and i decided to give her another chance. She acted genuinely sorrowful for about a month, but once i was not over it by then she began to be nasty about it and saying that i was hanging it over her head and “playing it up” how hurt i was(!). Things were rocky for about 6 months but it seemed we were headed towards reconciliation and smooth waters. That was until she came home from her class one night smelling of alcohol. I asked why this was (her eyes were glassy too) and she denied drinking.Well, let me just say i am no stranger to alcohol and its effects, and i confronted her and asked why she was lying. Of course, it was my fault and that she did not think she could tell me she had a drink after class because it let out early. Needless to say, this set us back and we never recovered. She had become so frigid and distant, and to add more lies. About three months later I said i had enough and i want a divorce. The person she became after we got married from the person i met is night and day. Even after what she has done to me, I still love her and I fear she may never know true happiness or love. Also, I am not the most Christian of men, but i certainly believe. I have a hard time swallowing her stories about her first husband now, and fear she is damning herself w basically spitting on the sacred vows of marriage. I am beginning to accept what happened, but there is doubt in my head of whether she is a narcissist or not. I was certainly not perfect in the marriage and I worry that this may happen to me again in the future. I am working on myself to be a better man (clean up after myself etc)but between her passive-aggressive actions, her turning off the light switch to her love for me almost over night, the silent treatment she would give me, the lies and deceit, and not to mention the infidelity, lead me to think she is a narcissist. This is not to mention that she is just sooo defensive and can not take any for of criticism. Plus, al she ever did to be funny was be sarcastic. I mean,reeeeally sarcastic. Like,after a while everything out of her mouth was just a snide, sarcastic comment. AM i right or wrong for thinking this?
Hello Wayne, I am so sorry to hear that you have experienced narcissistic abuse from your wife. You getting away seems quite recent from what you say, so I imagine you are confused, hurt, angry, disillusioned etc. What you are feeling is totally understandable and natural. You have been in a war-zone, and are left traumatized by all the malevolence that was thrown
at you. I am glad to hear that she has not managed to kill off your faith in God, because that often goes, leaving the person spiritually bereft also.
Without doubt you will need time to recover, but in the meantime you are educating yourself about what really happened to you. Part of recovery is being able to make sense of the whole sorry mess, and to stop obsessing over every little detail. Talking with trusted friends may help, but as you say, most people do not understand the debts of despair you have gone to, and that can make you feel very misheard and misunderstood. Besides, when we get away for the abuse, we are often left looking quite manic ourselves (ha! ha!). Many therapist don’t even understand this either, but if you are thinking of going for therapy, don’t be put off by that. Once you know the subject yourself (the gaslighting, the devaluing, the rages, the trauma bonding,etc. etc.), you can bring that information into the therapy room and work on the feelings around all of that. Try to pick a therapist that is trained in the area of Trauma, because that is most likely to be part of where you are now. What part of the world are you living?
Please take care and don’t be too hard on yourself, all this will pass, but it could take you some time. Warmest regards. Christine Louis de Canonville
Christine
How right you are Rophe. If you have just found out what you were dealing with, then you are most likely devastated by the realization. Take care.
Christine
I have just walked away from a relationship with my wife and narcissist without apology. I knew her for 5 yrs and did not see all what I saw over the past 3 years. I’ve never known someone to be so malevolent, disruptive in behaviour, untrue without reason and totally hateful. To say I’m drained right now is an understatement and I hope that one day I will live past this. In the meantime I have lost ALL trust for people and situations and it’s only through my faith in God that somehow He will pull me through this that I continue going.
I’ve worked and given everything to her only to be told that all my hard work was from Satan (and this after spending my money on thing that she needed).
Now I wait………wait because I know with time this too will pass.
One thing I’m asking God not to let happen and that is not to hate and how I’ve experienced hate as I’ve never seen before. There is so much to write………so much to tell and no one to share it with who I think would understand.
20 Year Vet of the Narcissistic Wars have learned the many charms of the Borderline NPD in the lower tier of the spectrum. They are inperceptible to the public as they reserve their episodes for the privacy of the relationship and are always on best behavior in the social setting. Female narcissism most assuradly deserve a great deal of study.
I have only days of learning the truth of my reality and I will devote my every breath to learning how to help vicims such as I into their recovery.